I heard a speaker at church yesterday that said most of the people he knew outside of his ministry were “non-believers” or “hopelessly agnostic” he claimed that rather than it being how we would think, of him witnessing or evangelizing to them he said that they were more active in trying to get him to embrace their beliefs or lack of depending on how you see it. He said that his friends typically ask him questions like “How a smart guy like him could believe in…?” or tell him that they felt free not having to embrace an organized religion and essentially that was the way to go.
So he went on and said that athiests are more bold and enthusiastic about witnessing than most Christians. I personally disagreed because most of the NB’s I knew seemed embarassed to admit it for what ever reason, with a few exceptions.
By the way… Longest “fifteen minute” speech ever :smack:.
My question would be if you are a non believer are you proud of it? I would guess most dopers would say yes.
Do you try to “convert” others or share the benefits you perceive in being free from an organized religion?
Yes, I’m proud of it. I don’t go out of my way to bring it up, I just don’t hide it either. My friends all know, so does all the family I’ve ever discussed it with.
No, I don’t try to ‘convert’ people. There’s nothing to convert them to. I can just picture that discussion. “You know all those things you believe in? Stop that, you jerk! And yes, this is my idea of a positive talk!” If the subject comes up, I’ll talk about why it’s been a good thing for me and what I think the benefits are. That happens a lot more online than in real life, of course.
I’m not proud of it, exactly. It was how I was raised and the only thing I know. I wouldn’t know how to even begin to choose a god and none of the arguments seem better than any others, so I just refrain.
I’ll share my beliefs when it comes up, by I have no interest in “converting” people. I believe that religion often serves a useful purpose. The only time I would make an issue of it is if someone I was close to was involved in a cult or otherwise allowing a relgion to severely change their lives.
As Europe got wealthier, people got less religious, so now only about 15 percent of Northwest Europeans is really religious. The USA is the only country in the world that got more religious as it got wealthier. So Start, you can’t really compare European and American answers here.
But anyway, when I was eighteen, I lost a friend because of my atheistic witnessing. She was religious, but she was nowhere near as good a debater as I was, and she didn’t know nearly as much about the background of Christianity as I did. “When I talk to you, it all seems like it isn’t true” she complained, and cutt off communication.
In hindsight, my trying to " convert" her was a stupid and contrary thing to do. I now feel she was right to shield her faith from me. She had nothing to gain by losing the faith of her upbringing.
Since then, I feel that witnessing is just impolite *and *ineffective.
But FTR: I’m proud of being atheistic, just as I’m proud to be Dutch. Both prides are utter nonsense, as neither being born in Holland or being brought up by atheistic parents was my choice. But hey, I take what I can to feel good and I’m not harming anyone.
Neither yes or no. I work for a small company, where (atypically?) most of the people there are quite devout, but it doesn’t really come up. My closest friends are ‘believers’, but it’s not a big deal. They’ve invited me to church a few times, so I did go to see my friend baptized, and went on a little course they had. The only time I’ve brought it up was on that course, during discussion afterwards.
I can’t say I feel ‘free’, really. Those that I know who are religeous seem to get something out of it, but I can’t get over the ‘cost’. On that course, someone offered that of all possibilities of the existence of god, he had to choose the best one, whereas my view was you can’t select the ‘best’ answer just because you’d like it to be true. (My taxes would be so easy to fill out…)
My brother just got back from a friend’s place (who is also a pastor and university graduate). During a discussion on the fossil record, my brother was offered the idea that perhaps carbon atoms didn’t act the same way in the past as they do now. :dubious:
Frankly, if your speaker there is hearing a lot of talk, he must be broaching the subject himself, because unless someone is bent on making it the subject of conversation, it just doesn’t enter my mind.
‘Proud’ isn’t exactly the word. I was raised that way. Most of the people I know are atheïsts. Like Maastricht said, Europe - or in this case, the Netherlands - isn’t all that religious.
But I’m certainly not ashamed of it.
As for converting: I used to not give a flying frick about someone’s belief, until I found out what awful things a religion can do.
When a religion is trying to impose it’s bizarre beliefs on me and when a religion is trying to take away my freedom, then, yes, I try to talk people out of their delusions.
Not that it helps one tiny bit, but at least I can be ‘proud’ to say to my [future] daughters and grand-daughters, that I tried.
I don’t think I’d say proud. Certainly not ashamed. Perhaps a bit closer to proud than perfectly neutral. I don’t try to convert people, though I am willing to engage in a discussion/debate about beliefs.
I don’t wear it on my sleeve, but yes, on the whole I’m proud to be an Atheist (as in, I think atheism is the correct way of viewing the world around us, and that belief in any kind of supernatural is not correct)
But – that’s my POV. I don’t shove it in anyone’s face unless they bring up the topic of [Gg]od, religion and/or belief. This normally doesn’t happen with friends and acquaintances, more with the random Witnesser on the street; I let them have it when those try to “convert” (or “save”) me (as an aside, it’s amazing how fundamentalist Christians and Jews tend to gravitate towards the same “I want to save your soul!” type of language.) With friends, when it comes up, we can have quite long, scholarly talks, but always good-natured. Oh, I’ll tell them I think they’re wrong to believe, and why, but it is possible to do so without being rude!
I’m proud of being an atheist for sure… and I never witness. Its plain silly trying to convert people if that is exactly the worse kind of behaviour I hate in beleivers. I might poke back at an attempt to convert me. Most of my friends are extremely inteligent… and the few that are beleivers are very inteligent ones. So they know better than push their beliefs.
I’ve personally seem a few attempts of converting people by beleivers… and I’ve never seen an atheist rap on about the lack of God. (In real life of course.)
The existence or inexistence of a specific ghost or three in the sky who watch my every move isn’t an important part of my life. I don’t witness, attempt to win people over, or judge other people for their religious beliefs or non-beliefes; I just try to take care of the things down here on earth that I have some measure of control over.
I wouldn’t say I’m “proud” of it. I just don’t believe in god. I don’t consider it a big deal. I don’t go trying to change the beliefs of friends who believe in a god.
Yea, I’m not sure if proud is how you would describe it. Being agnostic, there really isn’t anything to be proud of. I suppose I am proud of it’s simplicity, or something, but I do really like my beliefs.
As for the whole whitnessing thing, that depends. I live in the Bible belt, so not being a Christian throws people for a loop. Generally if religion comes up, like with my best friend, I am versed enough in Christianity to debate them like a fellow believer. I don’t try to convert them, but I try to get rid of as many logical inconsistancies as possible. In my mind, if you are going to believe in God, at the very least have a clear view of him.
So, that isn’t really converting anyone, but some people take offense to having an actual objective discussion of the Bible.
Even when I am on the defensive, which happens anytime religion comes up and my ideas are pulled out as novel, quaint, etc, I generally just go with the flow. As far as I can tell, I have never told anyone “my ideas are more correct because there may or may not be a God where you believe in one.”
No, I’m not proud of it. Other than ridiculous frippery-pride (like being proud of having good hair), I’m only proud of my accomplishments. And I didn’t choose to be an atheist: I don’t choose to believe anything, and I find the idea of choosing one’s beliefs to be extremely creepy, although I know that some people do it.
I’ve concluded that there’s probably no God based on what I’ve learned about the world; but I am incapable of making the opposite conclusion. I understand that most theists are in a similar boat. What do I, or they, have to be proud of?
I certainly don’t feel like I’ve got anything to be ashamed of or hide. If it’s pride to feel glad you’ve never fallen for it, then I guess I feel proud but it wouldn’t be my first choice of word. I’m trying to find a comparison that isn’t horribly offensive… this is the best I can do: The proudest non-smokers are those who used to smoke and quit. Few lifelong non-smokers are inordinately proud of being a non-smoker because there’s little sense of self-achievement in having never taken it up in the first place. I’ve never been religious and so I haven’t “achieved” atheism because I was born with it, and so it’s not correct to say I feel proud because I don’t feel I’ve done anything - but it would be wrong to assume that a lack of pride in atheism is the same as being ashamed of it.
Any percieved embarrassment in “admitting” to being a nonbeliever is strictly concern for how they are going to react or feel - sometimes it’s hard to tactfully tell someone that, in essence, you think the thing they believe passionately in is all lies and superstition. If you suspect the person you’re dealing with may make a big deal out of it, then it’s not unreasonable to feel embarrassed because you know the coming ordeal is going to upset you both and change nothing. Religious or non-religious, it sucks to be berated by someone of the opposite leaning when you probably have quite good reasons for believing the way you believe. It’s a socially awkward moment and that’s what’s embarrassing about it.
I am not evangelical in my opinion. What do I care if someone else wants to waste all the Sundays of their life in a church? But I will speak up for atheists when I see people insulting them or making wild accusations and suppositions about them. Somehow atheists are seen as some kind of collective group which we are certainly not except in the vaguest of sense. There is no organisation that tells atheists how to think, feel and act… or if there is, then I missed the memo. It’s not something you are, it’s just something you aren’t.
Oh, and I think expressions like “How can a smart guy like you believe in all that stuff” are more about the speaker than the subject. The person talking simply can’t believe it for themself and so they find it hard to understand that someone else honestly does believe it.
I am agnostic and neither proud nor embarrased. I will talk to people about my beliefs if they are interested, but find no need to try to get them to embrace my beliefs. I’m fine with them believing whatever they wish - as long as they don’t try to impose it on me.
Interesting question. I actually was raised a Catholic. There came a point in my life where I began to question my faith. Finally, I decided to stop with the questions and accept the fact that I hold beliefs different from “religious people.” I don’t know that I am proud of this. I usually don’t bring it up. Up until recently, I would smile and nod whenever someone brought up the subject of religion. I think it was because I felt unprepared to defend my beliefs. Now I will talk to people who tell me about their “god.” I feel that if those who are called atheists do not express their views, then people will assume that we feel as they do. This will lead to things like “intellegent design.” I have no problem with people holding superstisious beliefs until they begin to erode fact. My fear is that facts may be overlooked in the name of “religion.” Or maybe I am just being paranoid and like to argue.
So, to keep it simple, I am not proud of my beliefs, because I don’t have beliefs to be proud of.
I don’t think of atheism as a belief - it is the lack of a belief, if “belief” and “faith” mean nearly the same thing. I am an atheist by choice, and I think that faith is dangerous. The 9/11 hijackers were, to use an extreme example, apparently driven by their faith.
So, “proud” - no… in despair over many of my fellow humans - yes.
There’s no pride involved in it. It’s not like I walk around giggling to myself, “neener neener, you stupid jesus freaks, I’m better than you because I don’t believe that horse hockey!” I just don’t believe it. I don’t bring it up in mixed company, and I’ve never tried to dissuade someone from what they believe.
[pedant mode on] “You All” is contracted to y’all, because you are leaving out ‘o’ and ‘u’. [pedant mode off]
