In order Stonebow,
[ol]
[li]Of course previous sexual encounters are not the only baggage one can carry. Mind if I choose not to carry that either?[/li][li]The various origins of fantasies (sexual or otherwise) is not my point. My point is that I am choosing to not put myself in a position where unhealthy comparisons are possible. Most women I know feel enough pressure from the body images placed on the front of magazines. Such comparing is unhealthy. I am not going to allow performance comparisons to come into my bedroom thank you.[/li][li]Oooh did you miss the point. To answer your question, no. But we will learn what kinds of things (touch and otherwise) please each other. All within the bounds with which we both feel comfortable. And if we have a relationship where we have a large repertoire of things that please each other, how is that a bad thing?[/li][li]Again, you miss the point. Broken relationships hurt. Often more than we acknowledge. Betrayal hurts more where there is a deeper level of trust and intimacy. Do you mind if I don’t play that game either?[/li][li]If you are in a committed permanent relationship, what is the problem of getting married first? And if you have some hang-ups about getting married first, then exactly how committed are you? Not being judgemental here, but those questions deserve an honest answer before you start criticising anyone else for preserving the exclusivity of sex for within a marriage.[/li][li]It’s a bit rich to imply that I am ignorant of “the birds and the bees”. I would hope that any responsible person knows a little more than the fundamentals of biology before they engage in sexual activity. And that is what I am able to explain to teenagers. There is a lot more going on here than insert tab A into slot B. Again teenagers often feel a lot of pressure to do things they otherwise would not, and very often with disasterous results – physical or emotional. Risky teenage sexual behaviour is not a given. Teenagers do make reasoned choices. They do often need support to stick to the choices they have made. They do often need a level and mature head around to help them see things they otherwise would not have. And they do respond positively to role models. Some are crying out for decent role models. Again, is it ok with you if I set a high standard? I assure you I am making a difference where I am.[/li][/ol]
Sorry if you did not get my point EllisDee. I wanted to be able to state the obvious without having to argue against the tired line “You can’t possibly have an opinion on something you haven’t experienced.” I can and do have an informed opinion. I chose to take an example from an extreme situation to support my case in the hope that I would not have to become bogged down in trivial arguing. Asbestos Mango got it.
I have stated a number of ersonal and in some cases subjective arguments in my previous post. I don’t expect them to be watertight without a whole lot more detail and reasoning given. But then, this isn’t GD. I am in a position quite different from the majority of dopers and am in a good position to answer the OP.
Sometimes they are for the best. Two people who aren’t a good fit physically will have a difficult sex life. Workable, but probably not as satisfying as two people who are a good fit. I had a girlfriend who was subject to cervical bruising with a boyfriend. Overcomeable if they’d both been willing to work on it, but painful if he “slipped”
Moreover, I can’t really remember what sex was like with pretty much anyone other than my husband (been married going on ten years). Sex is (at least to me) sort of like chocolate - there is some residual memory of “good” and maybe flashes of specifics, but I can’t recall much. So, at least at this point, I couldn’t really make comparisions if I wanted to.
And while I don’t mind if you don’t want to carry the “baggage” of previous sexual encounters, I don’t consider mine baggage. They are a series of life experiences that contributed to who I am now. The only “sexual encounter” I had that I would consider baggage was rape - and I’m not sure that counts in this discussion.
My past is my past. Brainiac4’s past is his past. The present is what is important. It is perhaps interesting that I’ve known him since high school - so I’ve known nearly every one of his girlfriends and he has known almost every one of my boyfriends. In some ways, I think that really makes the two of us a stronger couple - not referring to sex, but recognizing what makes us a great fit while our previous relationships were lesser great fits.
As far as “being hurt” I’ve been hurt by non-sexual relationships that busted up. And I’ve been not hurt by sexual ones. Its the level of commitment, not the sex, that determines the level of hurt. In my experience, when I’ve been the “dumper” its the guys I never slept with who are the ones still calling me five years later. (Perhaps thats a sign I’m bad in bed?) In a weird way, sex seems to add closure for some people.
It is completely reasonable to wait for sex until marriage. But its an attitude thing - i.e. you value it, and some of your attitudes reflect that value. But without valuing it, those reasons don’t hold up.
The reasons that do hold up - outside the value system - are risk of pregnancy or STD - both which can be mitigated but can’t be completely done away with. Perhaps some social stigma for being “a slut.” The remainder comes down to what you value. Religions provide a construct for values - so a lot of religious people value waiting until marriage. But the values can exist independantly of the religion.
With the SDMB being down for a day it gave me some time to figure out what I found so weird with j_sum1’s post. There is a mental disconnect in the message you are giving out.
For people who are considering sex before marriage, your message seems to be, “Look at what could go wrong!”
For people who are considering abstinence, your message seems to be, “What could go wrong?”
You have a very skewed, negative view of what type of relationships non-abstinent people are involved in, and a very romanticized view of what marriage should be.
Maybe religious and non religious people date for different reasons. I thought the point of dating was to find a compatible mate. Do you marry that compatible mate? No, I believe that compatibility is only the first step. Does your mate make you a better person? Do you work better as a combined unit, than individually? If yes, then marry.
What is the point of dating if you aren’t going to explore all aspects of compatiblity?
Proponents of internet dating go even further than abstinence people. Internet daters believe that their method is the best because people make a “real” connection without “looks” getting in the way. Both downplay physical compatibility, but one is considered crazy while the other is consider admirable.
[ul][li]I feel honoured that my fiancee has kept herself for me. That is no small sacrifice, and I appreciate it. I think that her feelings regarding me are similar.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
I find this too egotistical and possesive. You don’t own people. Requiring them to remain virgin before marriage and/or stay monogamous after marriage is too much. Of course it’s OK if both parties agree with these rules, but I still find it rather immature.
No one said anything about requiring. Its not like I am imposing anything on her. She has her own standards which happen to coincide with mine. One of the reasons our relationship is strong is that we have the same values. Even more so when those values have had some testing and run counter to popular culture.
I don’t see anything immature in that.