Cite for what I wish?
Come on. She/he wants a cite for ‘Obviously the majority of men who sexually exploit teenage girls never suffer any real life consequences’.
How hard is it for folks to follow threads??
This is a truly outstanding example of the almost total destruction and reversal of what I actually said into the opposite, or nearly so.
I was, as Nzinga kindly noted, crystal clear: there was no “perhaps” about it: I am of the opinion that agreeing to sex when you’re drunk is not rape. Period. It’s just regret for bad decisions.
I also never said anything like “if a girl gets drunk that’s at least a factor in determining the severity of a rape”. Not even close. I said if a man fucked a woman who was unconscious, that was rape. If she agreed to sex while drunk, that was not rape, that was pure bullshit. Black, white. Bright lines everywhere.
Your failure to clearly understand even these completely unambiguous statements of mine leads me to conclude that your reported inability to understand my more nuanced and complex statements is not really likely to be a result of my inability to express myself clearly.
You said :
Of this I would appreciate the evidence that drew you to that conclusion.
Forgive me for wandering into a topic already this far into the discussion, but what do you do about the blurry line between when a woman is kind of drunk but still somewhat lucid and totally drunk but hasn’t passed out? I think the law is the way it is because there would be more problems with men claiming the girl consented than women who simply got a little tipsy, had sex, and regretted it but claimed it was rape
How do you seperate the actual drunken rapes from the ones who just had a little too much to drink and thought that guy looked kind of cute now?
Stoid, if people regularly don’t understand the point you’re trying to make, isn’t it worth looking at how you’re communicating? I suppose it’s easier to assume that everybody else is just a moron, but possibly you aren’t being as crystal clear as you think you are. Especially if this happens in every. single. thread. you post.
I was summarizing without scrolling back to the messages, but it seems like I got it right: your opinion is so far from societal norms, and your inability to see that or explain why society is sooooo wrong and you are sooooo right is pure entertainment at this point. You are perfectly capable of stringing together grammatical sentences, and to your credit, even use paragraphs correctly. But your broader use f rhetoric in explaining your thought processes is weak sauce indeed, and the thoughts that are occasionally exposed in your threads are curious indeed.
Personally, I am a fan of “curious” thought, and of people’s justifications for them.
As a peace offering, I wonder if I might recommend a 70 page or so essay called “Philosophy in the Bedroom”. I am curious what you think of it (but only if you read it, not if you read about it online.
Stoid, this is your quote. Your personal example seems to me to be a classic date rape scenario. And you clearly categorize it as a, “lesser kind of rape.” I am thrilled that you have lived your life without feeling like a victim. I am thrilled that this experience didn’t fuck up your world view about sex and sexuality. But can you speak for every victim of date rape???
Now I’m a defense attorney (I am glad I didn’t read your thread about attorneys), so I completely agree that this stuff is not black and white. I agree that circumstances matter, and facts matter, and those kind of things absolutely do factor into how we prosecute and punish people in these situations.
But you absolutely, and in no uncertain terms, characterized date rape as a lesser kind of rape, and you are now trying to say that you never said that.
Tripolar - I’m sorry, but I don’t know how to multi-quote. But you gave two examples in post #44 about people going on the sex offense registry. I think you mentioned an 18 and 17 year old having sex, or someone taking pictures of their naked kid and sending it to grandma.
Virginia has some pretty harsh sex offense laws. Neither of these examples would likely get prosecuted. The first is not a crime. A 26 year old having sex with a 17 year old MAY be a misdameanor, but by no means a registerable sex offense. In your second example, it may fit the letter of the law, but is certainly not what the child porn distribution laws were created for.
There are a lot of offenses that people can commit and get on the registry, and the penalties can be incredibly harsh. But your examples are so off-base, that it really weakens your argument. Unless you were being completely facecious, and I missed it.
Do you dispute it? Are you aware of the statistics for rape convictions? Are you aware of how underreported it is? Do you really think that the majority of men who have sex with underaged girls ever face legal consequences?
Let me ask an honest question. Does it tend to be the same folks claiming to misunderstand her each time? I don’t want to say I think the girl is being targeted but I think the girl is being targeted. I have only read a few of her threads, but I admit I seem to note some pile-on action happening with her. I may be wrong though, because I haven’t read some of her most famous threads, including the law ones that I hear so much about.
In this thread, it seems that she spoke quite plainly and she put in qualifiers and tried hard to make herself clear in the OP. I don’t get why folks are having so much trouble with her posts.
ETA: This is an example of her trying to speak plainly but being misunderstood:
[QUOTE=llcoolbj77]
Stoid, this is your quote. Your personal example seems to me to be a classic date rape scenario. And you clearly categorize it as a, “lesser kind of rape.” I am thrilled that you have lived your life without feeling like a victim. I am thrilled that this experience didn’t fuck up your world view about sex and sexuality. But can you speak for every victim of date rape???
[/QUOTE]
Stoid tried to specify her own personal experience. She is saying it is a lesser rape in her opinion. She didn’t try to speak for ‘every victim of date rape’. She took pains to clarify that.
Declarations like “date rape is a lesser kind of rape” tends to grind some gears.
Na, I understand what you’re saying, no worries :).
Honestly, I am sure some of the people are the same- but a good chunk of her threads devolve into her vs everybody else, with her claiming that everybody is mis-characterizing her argument. Every. Single. Time.
It may be entirely possible that everybody else is piling on her, but there’s no harm in a little self reflection in regard to her communication style. I coach high school speech and debate-- I regularly hear from the kids that they were the smartest, most eloquent, most logically speaking debater in the round. When they lose, they say, “THE JUDGE WAS DUMB! THEY TOTALLY WERE SO DUMB AND DIDN’T GET WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!11111” In reality, it’s the job of the speaker to effectively communicate their ideas to their audience and if we have reason to believe that message ain’t being effectively communicated, it’s worth figuring out how that can be improved.
Since this happens regularly in her threads. . . a little introspection might be in order.
The truth of the matter is, I see myself in Stoid. I have had threads that I started, where I tried so hard to be clear, and then found out that everyone was ‘misrepresenting my posts’, over and over. Now that I look at it again, it may be that I failed in communicating. Now, I hesitate to start certain threads. It could be that I know deep inside that I haven’t really grown enough yet to be able to handle myself in those threads without feeling ‘piled on’. So enough of my hijack, I just wanted to throw some support to her to let her know that she was understood.
Bull. What extreme are you on about? Stoids whole point was that each case needs to be taken individually, just without the blind rage that “sex” crimes seem to create. Are you even reading her posts?
She asked for a cite. Are you going to dodge the issue or are you going to provide a cite?
I’m also somewhat curious how one determines how underreported something is.
It just seems presumptuous to put forth the notion that there are lesser rapes. And it’s just so odd that Stoid seems to act as though she’s on the cutting edge for pointing out that we overreact to rape, when I think the main problem with our society is that we assume that “real rape” is a stranger jumping out of the bushes. Yes, stranger rape exists but in comparison with the very real problem of acquaintance rape, it’s much rarer. I just think that, if anything, as a society we don’t react strongly enough to acquaintance or date rape.
So he can visit them and tell them that his hands are registered with the police as deadly weapons and that he’s got his eye on them (point to eye, point to him).
I wasn’t being facetious, I was pointing out cases that I’ve seen documented. It’s not worth the research for cites on this argument. Are you contending that there are no innocent people in sex offense registries? That all laws are rational and reasonable? It doesn’t sound like it, so provide the better examples from your superior knowledge.
My point is that taboo subjects don’t get discussed rationally (just read this thread). This results in a lack of justice. Over and over again in this thread posters attack the concept that ‘stranger rape’ and ‘drunken date rape’ are different. The effect on the ‘victim’ is irrelevant, ‘drunken date rape’ usually lacks substantial evidence. It doesn’t make sense that someone has consentual sex with a stranger holding a knife to their throat. It does make sense that someone who voluntarily goes off alone with a date and drinks would have sex with that person. The two cases are not equivalent. That doesn’t make ‘date rape’ ok, just different.
ETA: Click the multi-quote icon on the different posts, then click quote on one of them.
She said flat out that date rape is a “lesser rape.” That’s not case by case. That’s a blanket statement, and it’s an offensive statement.
It doesn’t require a cite. Only a moron would deny it.
By comparing anonymous surveys with rates of reporting. “Reported” doesn’t mean “never told anyone,” just that it was never reported to the police. Most rape vctims never go to the police, especially when it’s date rape. Stoid never answered my question about whether she reported her own rape, but I’m guessing she didn’t.