Now mein sprockets is when we explore sexual history

Factual Questions
1

So here’s what I want to know, and certainly I’ve researched the topic PURELY from an academic standpoint.

But what is the deal with the stereotype that Germans are sexually deviant? And how did that begin? Specifically, I’m thinking of the BDSM/Dominatrix/Scheisse Video/Sprockets, weird, violent sex, women in latex stereotype.

NOT THAT THERE’S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT

But it occurs to me that a lot of the famous sado masochistic literature is actually French. DeSade. The Story of O is French.

Venus in Furs is the only German definitive groundbreaking erotica I can think of, and yet it seems to be a given that Germans are “freaks” or “deviants”. Jokes about “German Dungeon Porn”. I don’t get it. I mean, I make those jokes too, but why?

Seems Americans, French, Dutch people are just as whacked.

Did this stereotype start after WWII, when the world decided Germany could be everyone’s bitch in the jokes department?

jarbaby

2

On the movie about the guy who started a corn flake magnate/health guru (played by A. Hopkins) all of the sex toys came from Germany. My Wag is that they did not have the restrictive laws of England or France RE: porn and sex toys back in the 18th and 19th century.

3

Yes, but deSade was writing about horrific sex toys and practices in the time of Napoleon. He was proclaimed a horrendous deviant and yet his books live on in wide circulation. Shouldn’t we be categorizing the French as the freaks?

4

One glance at a German Helmet (Helmut?) from WWII and I figured they were whacked.

5

A dear friend of mine has a German boyfriend (they met while he was studying in the US) and has travelled extensively in Germany, and she swears that this stereotype has at least some basis in truth. She claims that German men really do tend to be more into being dominated than their American counterparts. Now why that would be, I don’t know. She says she thinks it’s because they feel guilty about the Third Reich.

6

Wasn’t the Weimar Republic (Germany between the World Wars) supposed to be a hotbed of sexual depravity (see Cabaret)?

7

Whats this supposed to mean? If I remember the punchline for SNL properly its:

“Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance.”

Knowing Jarbaby’s fetish for all things Deutsch, I’m willing to conceed I may be mistaken on this one, but I am curious. Was Meyers really creating this kind of incestuous Anglo-Germanic sentence? If so, what exactly were “his” sprockets?

[sub]If I’m missing some big joke here, please don’t laugh too hard.[/sub]

Anyways, about the OP:

In my online forays, I’ve noticed that the vast majority of really freakish (non-US) porn is either German or Dutch. The BDSM, fisting, and god knows what else, does really tend to be commonly German borne. Then again, probably even more of it is American, but the foreign stuff tends to stand out. And of the various foreign films, German stuff tends to the more deviant. The only real competition is Japanese porn, who are probably the most into BDSM, but not so much into golder showers, fisting and some of the stomach turning stuff.

Basically what it comes down to, if you were an American, I think that you’ll see the stereotype mentioned in the OP played out as fact. All this of course is strictly modern, and it depends on how far back this stereotype goes. Personally, I’d say that pre-internet, the French carried the stereotype of most deviant country not the Germans. If anyone agrees with that, I’d say that your references to deSade and such are true, and that fed the perception that the French are deviant and hedonistic.

The difference however, is that the Germans are mainly associated with the really nasty stuff like Scat, Pain, and Fisting (the French for homosexuality and orgies). In my perception this stuff hasn’t been in the ether for very long, and is probably only gaining notice post-internet. In that arguement, I’d say that it isn’t so much a “stereotype” as it is a reality.

If my guesses are correct, its probably because the German’s have fairly casual laws concerning sex and porn. Much more so than most English speaking countries at least. Basically the Dutch and Germans (who the average American can’t tell apart) have laws that allow these kinds of fetish porn, and lack the pressure and zeal of puritanical citizens to stop it. The internet has made these films available and therefore fostered the spread of the perception. The jokes grew from that.

I don’t know if the average German is more inclined to like this stuff or not, but if they are perhaps its due to the idea that German’s live very structured, dicsiplined lives. Work is important, and they release this rigid lifestyle in the bedroom. They say its true, the more powerful the man, the more likely that he wants to be tied up and dominated. The more repressed they are in public, the more likely they are to want to be kinky in private. If you buy this, perhaps thats why the Germans, Americans and Japanese tend to feauture prominently in the porn world as a whole.

8

To back up kunilou, Shadow of the Vampire briefly shows F.W. Murnau (John Malkovitch) attending a c.1921 sex-club where beautiful women are performing various sex acts for men–while sporting moustaches.

I don’t get it.

9

I should have noted that I cited that for purposes of stereotype reinforcement, not factual evidence.

10

Last month I read a book titled “Life is Like a Chicken Coop Ladder” by Alan Dundes. I was a (controversial) anthropological study of the anal/scatalogical obsession in German culture.

According to the book, German scat-fancy originated back when most people were farmers, and every home had its manure pile. It became common to put the pile in front of the house, to show off how much livestock you owned.

11

During 1920s and 1930s Germany had the reputation of being a hot bed of deviant delights. If you read any stories about Germany of that time (especially Berlin) it is quite filled with sexual weirdness. Probably the best example is Christopher Isherwood’s Berlin Stories, but most novels of the time bear this out as do the collections of letters and stories of newspapermen of the time. George Seldes’ Witness to a Century comes to mind.

Cleaning up some of the depravity of Berlin (and Germany in general) was one of the reasons that Hitler had so little oposition (that and killing off a good number of his opponents, I suppose) when he came to power.

But even Hitler’s Germany had some proclivities that might be mentioned. Didn’t Eva Braun dance nude at the beginning of that 1936 Olympic film? Wasn’t Goering known for enjoying orgies? Weren’t some of the consentration camps used for the diviant sexual gratification of some of the camp administrators?

After the war, as has been mentioned in this thread, Germany has blossomed (as it were) with sexual freedom. I have heard that they rank second only to Holland in sex shops per capita, second only to Australia in nudist colonies per capita and first in dirty films per capita (although I understand that Japan is closing this gap).

12

Jarbabyj, you seem to cite literature in particular. I always felt that in the case of Mike Myers’ Sprockets character, he was inspired more by cinema, with German filmmakers such as Fassbinder. Germany had a rich cinematic tradition, and in the postwar era artists were trying to differentiate themselves not only to stake out new ground artistically, but also to escape the shadow of mass media’s use during the Nazi era. This rejection of the their cinematic history was embodied in the New German Cinema, which included a turn toward somewhat avant garde works and sense of alienation. Films were often alienating to the audience as well, and this was intentional. As one filmmaker put it, “Opa ist tot” (Grandpa’s cinema is dead).

As little as I know about German cinema, I know even less about French. So take this with a barrel of salt: My guess is that in the postwar era, the French political preoccupation was nationalism vs socialism, unity vs class struggle. Same old same old, and so traditional film styles continued to be represented as innovation occurred. Germany, a divided, essentially occupied country with a huge collective guilt, faced a more profound identity crisis, and the films reflected this deeper schizophrenia.This site doesn’t make exactly the point I’m looking for, but it’s close enough.

13

Jarbaby

You’re all wet.
But that’s okay,I like it! :smiley:
The practice of Sadomasichistic sex,although it IS named for him,did not begin with DeSade.
This link

http://www.coco.cc.az.us/~apeterse/_ART201/wall_painting.ht

reveals the practice of flagellation for an initiate into the cult of Dionysis,and is Pompeiian.I don’t think the Germans have any monopoly at all.

A quote from the site:

"This scene of ritual flagellation was one part of the celebration of the initiation of a woman into the cult of Dionysus

  • at this time there were many mystery cults which came from the Hellenistic east with secret rites a part of the practice
  • many of the cults included salvation through mystical union with the deity
  • flagellation of the initiate by a winged deity
  • ecstatic, hallucinatory state created by fasting, drugs and beating
  • all are adult women except boy servants and Dionysus"

BTW,Omniscient,concerning this:
The only real competition is Japanese porn, who are probably the most into BDSM, but not so much into golder showers, fisting and some of the stomach turning stuff.
I would say they are.(into the fisting et.all)

Forbin

14

Boy,I dunno why that link doesnt work.
I guess we’re both all wet.
It is out there.(the page)
If you need it,holler,and we’ll see what we can do.

15

Weren’t vibrators invented by gynecologists in the 19th century?

16

Have you seen some of the Japanese smut on the net? The freakiest crap I’ve ever seen was Eastern.

17

First of all Omni, I was just doing a play on words. Dieter did indeed say Now Mein Sprockets is when we dance. I changed it in an effort to be funny. Sorry.
Second, I guess I’m a little clearer on the concept but also more confused. More to the point:

Didn’t people dance naked in every country?

Didn’t people in France, Japan, Greece and Italy enjoy orgies?

And whether or not sadomasochism started with DeSade or the Greeks or whatever, it didn’t start with the Germans, and yet they are the collective butt of every sexually depraved joke or skit or whatever I’ve ever seen.

In fact, in reading studies about German sexuality last year I found that (sadly) most German women complain that their partners are boring, slow and unsatisfying.

So what I’m saying is, there’s depravity and freaks everywhere in the world. But did our collective hatred of Germany during and post WWII lead us to believe that it was OK to pigeonhole them as godless debaucherous latex hounds?

Once again, I’m all for it, but I’m always curious as to how stereotypes form:

Germans = Cold, calclating, twisted, oversexed

jarbaby

18

jarbaby, I get the play on words. Thats not the question. I am pretty sure that he says:

“Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance.”

not

“Now mein Sprockets is when we dance.”

Listen here and decide for yourself.

Don’t mind me, just being anal.

Regarding the OP again:

I think the main question first needs to be “How far back does the stereotype of kinky, depreaved Germans go?” Once we isolate that, we can better figure out what fact inspired it.

My WAG still stands that the stereotype is recent, and is mainly borne out of the Germans’ (Dutch) being the most liberal sexually coupled with the fact they are a high profile Western nation. The laws and resources allow them to make alot of kinky porn and erotica that the more conservative countries get their hands on. The stereotype grew from there.

19

Well, some of the reinforcement of the stereotype could certainly be recent. I remember seeing some late-night program on cable on modern sexual attitudes, and the kinkiest stuff they showed was definitely Dutch and German. This included a clip of a program, apparently shown on German television, on how to have anal sex. Can you just imagine the outrage here in the US if there were a program like that on one of the major networks? :smiley:

But I think the stereotype was already in place pre-internet days. For example, Mel Brooks’ High Anxiety (1977) has a scene in which Harvey Korman’s character (Dr. Charles Montague) is getting his kicks from being strung up in a closet and beaten (whipped?) by Cloris Leachman’s character, Nurse Diesel. Nurse Diesel had torpedo tits before Madonna ever did, had a heavy German accent, and in this scene was wearing a Nazi uniform.

I agree with Omniscient’s comment that Germans typically lead pretty structured lives, don’t display a lot of emotions outwardly, and thus might tend to “let loose” more once they hit the bedroom. Just a WAG - I also think that since some types of kinky sex lend themselves well to roll-playing or ritual, and thus are “structured” in some way, they are appealing alternatives to folks already used to that way of thinking.