Thanks for checking, Patch.
Gumball Rally… great movie!
and in many jurisdictions, the Police have to directly witness such a infraction. In CA, most traffic violations are term infractions and are not really a “crime”, *per se. *
In CA, the Police have to directly witness a misdemeanor, let alone a infraction.
Felonies are a whole 'nother ball of wax.
Yeah, that was pretty bogus:
Through his attorney, Tang filed a notice of appeal on Jan. 2 in order to be able to contest his guilty verdict and jail sentence. “I have never seen a misdemeanor prosecuted with such intensity and vigor, especially for a person with no prior criminal record,” Tang’s attorney Gregory Gomez said. “Deterrence is a laudable goal. But, this case became personal and vindictive.”
They also got search warrents for his home and raided it repeatedly. There are felonies in NYC that arent prosecuted with that sort of vigor.
There are felonies committed with far less planning, far less wonton disregard for the law, and far less risk to the public. It’s not like he stole a loaf of bread to feed his family. It’s not even like he was going a little too fast and then missed the reduced speed sign either. He carried out a deliberate plan, and bragged about it in way that might tend to encourage others to do the same.
He and others like him are a public menace. I’d say good riddance to him fleeing back to Canada, but then I wouldn’t wish that kind of disregard on our Canadian fellows either.
Stealing a loaf of bread isnt a felony.
Assault with a deadly weapon, homicide, rape, grand theft.
We could sit here and argue over under what conditions, if any, theft of a loaf of bread might constitute a felony (I never actually said it was…), but then you’d be missing the point and I be would allowing you to miss the point. I don’t want to do that to you.
The point is that there are certain times in which crimes are influenced by extreme poverty and even necessity. This crime, and the crime of the cannonball runners, filled no specific need on their part, did nothing to, say, advance human understanding of the world (we know you can go fast—the question they either failed to consider or failed to arrive at an appropriate conclusion at is “should you?”), and the public is at much greater risk from people speeding through populated areas or along major roadways than a multitude of crimes rated as felonies.
And again, they planned to do this all. This wasn’t due to inattentiveness.
So, while it may be uncommon to see misdemeanors punished with the year in prison that constitutes the max available punishment for a misdemeanor in I believe most US jurisdictions, this was an uncommon crime, with particular knowing disregard for the law and public safety.
Another thing to consider is percentage of people who speed. My fastest run from Grand Junction to Denver happened when I randomly was passed by a pack of three cars that I joined and we did at least 100 the whole way and knocked it out in less than 3 hours. If it wasn’t for that group of cars I’d had trucked along at 5 over the speed limit. When I was in Virginia and North Carolina for 3 months last year it seemed the average person drove 20 mph over the speed limit. That may make it easier to do 100 when the general traffic flow is at 80 as opposed to 70 out west.
Interesting. So people speed more in the east than in the west?
I’ve driven from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic in less than an hour.
I don’t know about that—some actual data would be nice—but I will say my personal experience with speed limits in the East (having lived many years in Virginia, plus New York, Rhode Island, and South Carolina) vs. those out West (grew up in Texas, currently living in Texas, and have in the past lived in California, driven cross country, and frequently made trips to Michigan) is that speed limits along the eastern seaboard tend to be a good ten to twenty miles an hour slower than what even a normal, non-serial speeder, would want to naturally drive. As in, the road is straight/wide enough to easily go 75 in normal traffic, but the speed limit is 55, 60, or 65.
In Texas, on the other hand, I don’t even WANT to go the speed limit. 75 is common on the interstate, and it gets to 85 heading west from around Odessa (of course it dips around cities, which become ever fewer and farther between west of Forth Worth). Similar experiences in New Mexico and Arizona. Terrible for gas mileage, and in some places genuinely uncomfortable going that fast. So I don’t. The speed limit hits 75, I keep going like it’s 70. And no, I’m not the lone vehicle obstructing traffic in the right lane, it seems pretty common to content oneself with going 70 to 75 on the interstate, even when the limit is 85.
So, while going 72 might constitute speeding just about anywhere you go in Virginia (I don’t recall ever seeing a speed limit above 70, but I could be mistaken), it’s well below the limit for significant stretches of Texas roadway.
It’s a spectrum of risk, obviously. Last spring we drove the segment Fallon NV (some traffic in Reno area peters out by then) to Beaver UT on US-50 and Utah 21. There is essentially zero risk to anybody outside your car to drive triple digits nearly that whole 430 miles. On US-50 in NV we met over cars coming west every 5-15 minutes, but just nobody on the Utah stretch. There are some curvy stretches through passes in the various north-south small mountain ranges in that area (Great Basin pulling apart over geological time, some segments falling/rising relative to one another) but 90+% flat and straight. I got the car up to the 155mph electronic limit just because I hadn’t previously, in NV with nobody in sight for minutes before and after. Drove the great majority of the distance just over speed limit as usual. There isn’t zero theoretical risk, tire failure (again though tire rating 186 mph and this was in cool dry weather) or an animal suddenly running in front of you. There’s just not enough risk to anyone else to justify any ‘social responsibility’ finger wagging. But it is illegal, and on the 1 in a million you get pulled over (though no place for cops to hide, and saw one coming other way in that whole drive) you have to pay the fine, accept the impact on insurance or even get towed/locked up: or else don’t ‘do the crime’.
But obviously we’re talking a relatively small area of the country (albeit gigantic by standards of my small state). Whole country at 100 mph the moral argument shifts to claiming you’re such a skilled driver you aren’t endangering people outside your car any more than an average driver would at the speed limit. I don’t know if anyone can validly make that claim, but I wouldn’t make that claim about myself. So besides a few times in extremely isolated areas, I only go 100+ on public roads for seconds when passing people on two lane roads where passing is legal, with a quite conservative view when or if to make my move. But if I do, I go as fast as possible to get around the person as soon as possible and my car is over 100 from say 50-60 in not many seconds.
I agree, don’t know about general stats but on Interstate sections in a number of western states with limit of 80 I sometimes go less than the speed limit and rarely more. Whereas in the east I generally go above the speed limit if traffic allows, by the assumed grace margin of ~7 mph (I know that’s not 100% reliable but I’ve never gotten a speeding ticket except once from a machine). I do also go below limit typically in congested pedestrian-rich areas. I go further above the limit on low speed curves of winding isolated roads.
I’m not generally in enough hurry on road trips (which is why I’d be out west) to care about saving a few minutes to go 85 rather than 75 on an 80 limit segment. Nor is it any more fun driving faster in a straight line (except maybe really fast for a bit, see above), and lower gas mileage. I find 80 more than fast enough even in those open spaces. Anyway on road trips we generally avoid Interstates and go for two lane roads.
This matches my experience as well. Most of the area I drove back east was 60 MPH but everyone seemed to drive 80. Out West it seems most speed limits are 65-70 MPH and people tend to drive 70-75. Overall though that 10-15 mph difference was real except out in LA where 80 again seems normal.
Interesting recent posts. I’m in California and haven’t driven in eastern states in a few years. But I was in Toronto ONT 2 months ago and was surprised at how fast the commute traffic [del]flows[/del] flies. Fortunately I tend to keep to the right, as a general rule, so they were whizzing by.
Nice thing about Toronto drivers is, most of them (when and where I was driving) use their turn signals! It was refreshing. But, that’s for another thread.
Yes, that’s one stretch where I’ve ridden my motorcycle at over 120. Exactly like you say, my main concern was tire failure. Also any sudden strong gust of cross wind that’d blow me off the road, but it was a calm day. I was impressed by the pavement quality, it was excellent.
I-10, I-8, and I-40 in the west have many wide-open stretches where it’s generally safe to drive triple-digit speeds.
I’ll be in the DC area and driving to/from NYC in late Jan/early Feb, so I’ll see about the speeds.
Hey, maybe I’ll visit the Red Ball Garage NYC just for a selfie!
Conspiracy. Aiding and abetting. Etc. They all planned and helped to break the law in an absurdly dangerous way.
They carried GPS trackers, including one provided by a 3rd party service, which means the data can be subpoenaed.
They also… admit it in print. That’s evidence, and very possibly admissible (IANAL).
It seems like there’s plenty of evidence to charge them.
You do know how something like a Garmin Nuvi works, right?
It’s a receiver only; it doesn’t transmit any data anywhere.
The data for the trip was recorded on a stopwatch-like function. Once you press <Reset> the data for that trip is lost. Even if they don’t do that, driving around town reduces their average speed. As for the max, you can’t be certain it was done a) in that vehicle (since it’s portable) & b) not on a legal place, like a race track as they don’t save your track/route info.
“I kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.”
There, I admitted it in print; it’s evidence. Well, except for the fact that I wasn’t yet born when it happened.
You missed the roadwork on the MX-80 libre, then. It was pretty bad coming into Acuyacan. Pavement all torn up; traffic routed through mud. But no air attacks. Whew.
I suppose a drive across Panama could go fast. My BIL grew up there and unicycled through the jungle. You probably missed him.
In New Jersey the posted numbers are seen as the MINIMUM not MAXIMUM allowable speed. Out west, it’s whatever we can get away with. In Mexico, speed limits outside town boundaries are a weak joke. 50kph (30mph) is posted, but none except a burro hauls at less than 2x or 3x that. And burros really haul ass if sufficiently [del]electro-prodded[/del] motivated. The drunk driving restriction: Don’t wave your bottle of tequila at the Federales parked beside the highway - they’ll only slurp it themselves.