… and if he were a gas, he would be inert.
- Dieter
[QUOTE=FriarTed]
… and if he were a gas, he would be inert.
- Dieter
[/QUOTE]
As in noble?
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
I *want *someone who understands the system.
[/QUOTE]
Well, Hillary certainly knows how to get money from lobbyists. Is that the sort of thing you mean?
(Hmm. I wonder what those lobbyists might want in return…)
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading]
As in noble?
[/QUOTE]
Well played!
[QUOTE=Anomalous Reading]
I’d submit that his speeches have been at least as substantive as his opponents. If you listen to Hillary’s speeches, very often she’s talking very broadly - as is McCain. That’s not to say that they don’t have detailed plans, much the same as Obama.
The trick lies in this fact, that he’s able to inspire and rally people. This leaves him with the “poet” label, and we all just KNOW that no poet ever said anything. And especially anything worthwhile…
Let’s throw something else in the mix… the President doesn’t create a single bit of legislation. What a President does is propose stuff, haggle with Congress, sign legislation or veto it. Other than that a President sets the agenda with… words to the nation. With symbolic acts. And help to guide the PROCESS. Able to add or subtract transparency. Able to appoint people to positions…
That’s what a President does.
Given that Obama has a record of working with both sides of the aisle (as does McCain) I’m more inclined to trust him (them) than other candidates. I’m a centrist and an independent. And I like big picture answers - not ideological ones.
[/QUOTE]
That’s actually not true. If I recall correctly a lot of the the regulatory agencies that establish most of the rules that affect you on a daily basis fall under the purview of the executive. He has hiring and firing ability at many of those organizations. Congress can pass laws that constrain them, or sign a resolution to pull someone from their ranks, or revoke their budgets, but that’s all broader stuff. The President can go over there and micromanage on the day to day if he wants, or hire a croney that reports directly to him to do it for him.
A lot of Obama’s promises are related to legal procedure. Increasing enforcement of laws that already exist. Streamlining databases. Creating regulations for how different industries are governed. Much of that falls within his power as president without having to consult congress.
[QUOTE=Atomicktom]
Meanwhile…Ford Prefect quoting Douglas Adams. Dude, you just blew my mind!
[/QUOTE]
That’s how I roll 
No one who’s ever read one of Obama’s books could honestly call him vacuous. The charge that he is vacuous is, in itself, vacuous. All it means is that the person making the charge has made no effort to find out anything about him.
It’s called The Audacity of Hope. A 300 page book about public policy and outlining all his positions.
I’ve read it (well, I have the unabridged version on CD so I suppose I’ve listened to it). Agree with DtC…you can call the man a lot of things and disagree with him philosophically, but he is neither vacuous or nebulous. If elected he will be one of the smartest presidents we’ve ever had.
-XT
They’re just trying to throw shit at him and see what sticks.
I’ve been on Obama a while. A few weeks ago, people were going, “you’re not worried that he doesn’t have experience?”
This week a guy said to me, “you’re not worried that he’s all substance and no style?”
:rolleyes:
That’s not to mention the guy in bowling league who said, “he wants to be president so he can start a civil war.”
[QUOTE=mswas]
That’s actually not true. If I recall correctly a lot of the the regulatory agencies that establish most of the rules that affect you on a daily basis fall under the purview of the executive. He has hiring and firing ability at many of those organizations. Congress can pass laws that constrain them, or sign a resolution to pull someone from their ranks, or revoke their budgets, but that’s all broader stuff. The President can go over there and micromanage on the day to day if he wants, or hire a croney that reports directly to him to do it for him.
[/QUOTE]
Or doesn’t as the case may be. For example, the President sometimes writes a note on the legislation that he signs that says “Executive Branch Agencies: Don’t do any of this.” At least, lately he has.
[QUOTE=Liberal]
I’ve said it twice, I’ll say it again. The only people with any pertinent experience are people running for their second term.
[/QUOTE]
First,
Let me say, Liberal that I’m so goddamned surprised that we agree 100 percent on this campaign. Seriously. Doesn’t anyone who’s had a job interview know this? Experience counts, but really there are simply some jobs where no amount of experience can prepare you. I’d imagine being president would be one of them. The only thing I could imagine would possibly be something like being governor of a large state, but there are none in this race.
Secondly. Obama makes a calculated ploy. He knows his inspirational power. People effing cry watching his speeches because the prospect of shedding all of this shit of the past 8+ years is really quite nice. We all want to believe deep down that America can be better than dysfunctional again. A lot of people compare it to Reagan, and I agree. America as a nation was very depressed and humiliated and it took a guy like Reagan to get the nation back up on its collective feet again.
But why is Obama vacuous? Because he doesn’t spell out the details of his policies every speech? I think it’s a calculated risk that works in his favor. Policy details are boring and get in the way of his emotional approach. He’s a very talented politician and can really get people behind him. But look, it’s not simply his oratory skills. It’s also his rock-solid self-confidence. By almost all accounts he is an example of a man who is “comfortable in his own skin” so to speak. No racial puns intended, btw. But when you read about his struggles as a youth and young adult, you can understand why he’s so self-confident and relaxed these days. He long ago came to understand who he is. It’s so apparent to me. He isn’t the type to be brooding or uncomfortable in any way. It is also why he doesn’t appear to be running for president in order to settle some score (like GWB [Saddam Hussein] or Hillary [right-wing]). You know Hillary always thought in the 90’s “One day I’ll be President, and then we’ll see who’s laughing!”
His policies are excellent in my opinion. It takes about 20 minutes worth of research on his website. I’m particularly interested in his technology stance. He seems to potentially be the first president who truly understands technology. I can imagine Obama having used email or the web before it was foisted upon him by aides. His idea to have a CTO in the whitehouse is the other thing I love. I feel like I’m the only other democrat who believes that it is good to have more services, but I also HATE pork-barrel spending and earmarks. I also HATE government waste. Republicans come in and pare down the programs we have (not good) and then democrats come in and bring them back plus another 10 extra we didn’t need. I don’t expect government to be perfect, but seriously. It needs to work better.
Transparency. Obama is a big fan of government transparency. With the technology we have today there is simply no excuse for allowing the people access to all information. Sure there’s national security implications and I don’t think that demanding access to classified info is important. Although I’m not entirely sure it would even matter if even classified info were out there.
The only people who say that Obama is vacuous and nebulous are the ones who are too lazy to even read an article about the man in the paper. Which isn’t surprising as his support generally comes from the most intelligent demographic. He gets a far higher percentage of university educated. But that doesn’t always mean intelligence, and I’m sure there are plenty of smart folks who never went to college. He also however, wins a much larger percentage of people making more than 100,000 a year. Again, not exactly intelligence, but this cross-section of successful and college-educated Americans wouldn’t be a bad group to hitch up with.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
But do you think he’s Black enough?
[/QUOTE]
Hmm… if anything, he’s too black. [/whiteamerica]
You know what? I don’t think it matters. Hallelujah!
[QUOTE=Squink]
Cool, our first “space president”!
Can we call him “M31” once he’s elected?
[/QUOTE]
Or the "Coalsack ".
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
Or the "Coalsack ".
[/QUOTE]
But is that nebula black enough?
[QUOTE=Trunk]
That’s not to mention the guy in bowling league who said, “he wants to be president so he can start a civil war.”
[/QUOTE]
That actually made my head hurt. This is why I never discuss politics with anyone in my league.
WTF? Civil War? With what sides? God, the stupidity of people just make me ache.
Obama wants to start a Civil War against corrupt governmental processes. There will be much kicking and screaming. 
[QUOTE=cricetus]
WTF? Civil War? With what sides? God, the stupidity of people just make me ache.
[/QUOTE]
They’d have to put together some sort of blue-ribbon commission to work that out.
I should have seen the rest of this coming. On CNN this morning, they were talking about how Obama is coming under criticism now for the enthusiasm of his supporters. They’re being compared to a cult, and the term “Obamaphilia” is being thrown about. :rolleyes:
I have the feeling that if Obama gets the nod on the Democratic side, we’ll be saying in a few months that Howard Dean got off easy.