My advice/experience. I have taken a counteroffer and regretted it. Every friend/family member that has done so has regretted it.
In the OPs case…they told him they COULD NOT give him a raise - so how can they counter? If they counter, then WTF were they talking about when they said he couldn’t get a raise?
I understand it is negotiation - but being a liar is being a liar. Just because it is negotiation doesn’t mean it is perfectly fine to lie.
However, I have to admit, I have a personal distaste for companies that rely on counteroffers - it is lazy and IMO unethical to wait until someone QUITS before you raise your offer…and even then I would bet a buck that they will only match the other offer and not come in above it.
The company I am with now does a salary check every year to make sure they are offering what they want to offer - which is somewhat above industry average (They have a goal of wanting to be a ‘destination’ - that is where people starting to take off or solid in their careers wish to work.)
There is no such law, but how does one prove the non-existence of a law other than to say, “Can you please show me which law applies here?”.
There is an overwhelming anxiety out in the workplace on the part of managers that every effort be made to accommodate and support under-represented minorities–particularly blacks and women–both large groups which have historically been given short shrift. I wonder if your Chairman is anxious that doubling your salary–however justifiable–would raise a concern on the part of your black co-workers that the white guy is getting paid double, and that race-based discrimination is at play. It sounds to me like that’s what your Chairman is nervous about.
Comments on this board implying widespread existing “institutionalized racism/sexism” to the contrary, it’s my experience out in the world of business that managers and leadership are terrified of discrimination complaints and that therefore the workforce world is heavily skewed toward (and not against) under-represented minorities and women, be it in hiring, positions, salary or termination.
You did not ask, but were I in your position, I’d simply leave for another job.
“I can’t do any better than this” is such a standard line in negotiations, it barely counts as an actual utterance, let alone a lie.
Another great example is, after you reach an agreement, “Boy, you sure got the better side of that bargain! I must be crazy to let you get away with this.”
Both statements aren’t worth the breath/ink used to say them. Calling them a liar because of such things is simply poisoning the well – I’m sure every one of us has told a lie or two in their time, and yet our bosses don’t take the position of, “I’ll never let a LIAR work for me!” There are lies, and there are lies.
Job hunt, and get the new job nailed down FIRST. Then that puts you in the best spot. Then watch and see - a lot of times, they can magically (like I said) come up with the money. Don’t take it. Take the new job.
I agree; it’s like being in a relationship with someone who treats you like crap, then promises to start treating you right after you decide to end the relationship. The salary the company is paying you is what they think you’re worth.
Negotiation happens before you leave. Counter offers happen after. Why would they keep someone who had demonstrated lack of loyalty?
People don’t leave because of money on average. I bet if the Chairman showed m.j. the books and explained why there wasn’t enough money, m.j. might stay. m.j. will be leaving because the Chairman lied, which is an excellent reason. What counteroffer is going to make up for that?
I left the one place I left in anger because I was refused a transfer to another group who wanted me. This was against company policy. When I handed in my letter of resignation, I was immediately told I could now transfer. I more or less laughed in his face. If I had taken the counter offer, how do you think it would have gone? My old group had more power in the company than the new one.
Loyalty goes both ways. Somehow, management forgets that all too often. They’ve already told m.j., in a round about way, “sorry but you’re not worth more money”. I think this is a case where the “business models” of enlightened self interest (mj’s self interest), and attention to the profit margin (mj’s profit margin) should take over. A company revolves around profit and loss, and to be brutally honest, there are no loyalties except to the bottom line. Why is it so surprising that some people take that as their sign, and begin to use the lesson that was taught?
Look at it this way - companies downsize and lay off all the time, right? In this case, mj is “downsizing” them for a change. Going for a little personal profit margin. The “loyalty card” has no place here.
Nothing personal, just business.
Saying ‘I can’t do better’ would not be poisoning the relationship for me if they do, actually, do better in the future. I think this is understood by both sides as ‘I am not going to pay you more. You can accept that and stay or you can leave’…but when you leave they think…‘oh shit, he called my bluff…I want him to stay so will counter’. I don’t think it is a very GOOD way to go, but I can understand it. I, personally, would not accept the counteroffer because I abhor the practice and don’t want to have to quit everytime I negotiate a raise in the future.
However, saying ‘I legally cannot pay you more…I mean, gosh you deserve it. I wish I could give it to you and we love you but our hands are tied’ bullshit is a LIE in big letters if they then counter in the future. This is not legitimate ‘negotiating’.
Sadly, job hunting is often the only solution to the “you can’t have a raise because (insert questionable reason here)”
Several years ago, my employer (non profit) could “not afford” to give me the tiniest raise, despite all of the work I had put in over the years. I came up with many reasons why I was worth it… but it was all “so sorry, we just can’t do it”.
I left on good terms to a new position that was half-time (but paid more than my old job). They seemed genuinely sad to see me go. They of course managed to hire a new person, as nobody is indispensable. How much did that new person make in salary? 30% more than I did - they simply could not fill the position for anything less. Plus, they found that nobody had the computer skills that I’d brought to the position, so they ended up a few months later having to bring in an IT person on salary to do what I was doing during my unpaid (unappreciated) overtime.
The interesting thing is that the management there never “got it”. They never saw that they really should have “afforded” to give me a raise, as they would have saved 90K a year. They’ll probably repeat this mistake again and again…
Exactly. This goes to my post about many companies, for some reason, cannot handle internal promotions well.
Even the company I am at does well in watching salaries…but, for some unknown reason, keeps f-ing up on internal promotions.
An example, of what I wrote about before is we have a heirarchy for a large part of our company that looks like this (not my area which is stats):
Postion A - very entry level. College degree. No experience about $40k
Assistant project manager - Some experience required. Make about $50k
Project manager - Most commonly get here by being hired into it. Usually need an MBA but if you have some unique experience you can make a pitch for it. A few make it from assistant to PM. Salary about $90K
Project Director - Lead a team of project managers. Need gobs of experience and must be very very good. Guesstimate of what they make…about $180K.
Now - there is a woman who started out in position A. She made her mark and quickly went up to assistant. Spent a couple yeras there but she was so good she went to project manager. Spent 5 years as that and was so FREAKIN good she is now a director. At about 30 years old when most directors are much older.
She is doing very well as a director.
Over beers a few months ago, she confided to me she makes $80K. WTF…you serious? She said she likes the company but cannot get them to budge on salary.
A month ago she confided she just turned down a job for $190K…thinking she can do better.
So here you have a stellar employee…burning up the ladder…and they are going to lose her because they CANNOT for SOME STUPID REASON pay her what they would pay her if they were interviewing as if she came from another company.
I, personally, have moved to another company THREE TIMES because I was promoted with little (and once even no) raise. They then act shocked when I put in my notice. :rolleyes:
BlinkingDuck and SteveG1: you both make excellent points. I’m generally thinking the OP would wish to stay at this job if he made more money, because he seems to like his coworkers, his immediate boss, and the flexibility of the job.
That’s why I’m saying he ought to stick with the negotiation but with a different approach. If he was really ready just to say screw it, I’m going to find a new job, I’m betting he would have made that conclusion already.
And for the record, I’m not discounting the possibility that the chairman might be simply clueless. I’ve run across a few non-profit directors that weren’t the sharpest spoons.
When I was in college I told less than the total truth when I couldn’t find a summer job. I told them I was leaving college. So after 8 weeks in the typing pool I went and said, sorry, I’m going back to school after all. They offered me a raise. Another raise. Instant permanent status. Nope, nope, nope. It was amazing to me how high they went. And I was just a dam typist for cripes’ sake. The sad thing was there was another woman in her 30s who had been doing the same job for about a year. She was a widow with 2 young kids and she really, really needed the job and was afraid to ask for anything for fear of losing it. She didn’t get a raise.
Search for another job without letting it be known you are doing so. Keep up the good work so there is no excuse for them to give you a poor reference if asked later. Do NOT permit any potential new employer to call them until you have a job offer and have accepted it.
You know, that’s not the first time I’ve heard of that. I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone said that the best way to get a serious raise is to change companies. That doesn’t make any sense to me, but it seems to be the way the game is played.
If anyone other than your boss knows what you make, then someone is acting unprofessionally. Since you do payroll I expect it’s you. Look for another job, and when you get it, stop blabbing about salaries.
Get out of there. Fast. They are lying to you. And now you’re in a position where if they do give you a raise, it probably won’t be enough but they’ll do so with the attitude that they’re doing you a favor.
As far as the “so-an-so only makes $X” or “if I give you a raise I have to give everyone a raise” bullshit, (which someone tried to use on me once), tell him that you think it wouldn’t be right or make any sense for you to come in there and ask for a raise because some people are making more, or that you deserve a raise because someone else does. Because that’s the asisne position the chairman is defending. He’s a lying scumbag or the dumbest person on the planet. I vote for the former. Find a new job and as you leave gift the whole board with a copy of Atlas Shrugged.
If one took a dump in their coffee cups, it may not be viewed as insulting as giving them this book. One wants to minimize the insults upon leaving a job to preserve a good reference.
Somebody somewhere figured out that the number of people who will actually search for, find and leave for a higher-paying job is vanishingly small compared to the number who say they are going to do that if they don’t get a raise.
You say the chairman hold all the cards? I think he holds none of the cards.
If it’s true that you could immediately go somewhere else and get double the pay then what’s holding you back?
The only reason the chairman gets away with any of this crap is because the employees let him. And he’ll keep doing it as long as he can get away with it.
Maybe this is his style. If he can’t exploit you and you choose to leave he’ll just find someone else he can underpay.
I’ve seen owners of businesses operate like this. Promise the world to a new employee then underpay and overwork them. By the time they wise-up and leave you just get another victim to do their job. Repeat.
