Oh, Gawd. Need serious advice. Parents of teen girls, gather 'round...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I just discovered there’s an ongoing entry in the History folder for something called Open Diary, and wondering who a certain file name was, I began to read them and of course it’s The Cat Who Walks Alone. I got to find out that she’s experimenting with both sex and atheism, so what am I supposed to do with this? I really, really wish I hadn’t read any of it, but I had no idea until I got started and it became obvious. All those nights recently where she stayed up late doing “e-mail”, I thought it was IMing with the BF, and it’s this.

Should I let her know I know what she’s been up to (the sex and the atheism are about equally important in my mind, except that you can’t get pregnant from saying you don’t believe in God anymore)?

And geez, should I tell the Better Half? In her entries, he comes across as someone she loves but fears deeply. How can our children possibly fear us? Tears come to my eyes.

He’ll hit the ceiling when he reads the stuff about the BF. And she’s right when she fears his reaction to the atheism thing. As he’s gotten older, he’s gotten even more conservative, especially as soon as he discovered he had a nubile teenage daughter. Watch the protective Daddy curtain come down, but in a nice way, I thought. :rolleyes:

I never had a diary to which I confessed my deepest, darkest secrets, being a totally horse-crazy teenager. I never told my mom about the (extremely minor) stuff I got up to with the (one) boyfriend I had before I met and married the Better Half, and it quite honestly wouldn’t have occured to her, a good Southern Baptist church lady, to ask her National Honors Society daughter, “Are you letting him finger-fuck you out behind the restaurant after work?”

The Cat was just inducted into the NHS a couple weeks ago. Yes, I do remember what it was like to be a teenager, but I had a different mindset–there were some things you just absolutely didn’t do with a guy, and letting him “put it in you” was only for really Bad Girls. Which I wasn’t. I had an extremely sheltered existence as the Straight A Student at the First Baptist Church.

So I have like zero experience with what it’s like from the other side of the Teen World vis-a-vis “doing the nasty with the BF up in his room”. We started letting her go over to his house, because we thought she was being so sensible about all of it. And no, she doesn’t have a particularly difficult set of rules, we don’t even have a curfew as such, just “be home at a reasonable hour”. And she knows Mom is sitting here waiting up (thank God for the SDMB to keep me company), “in case you have another wreck and need to call home”. My dad waited up for me.

What am I supposed to do with this? Talk to her about it, or not? I’m assuming that she knows where babies come from, and about condom use. I know I mentioned it a year ago, when she first started going out with this guy. But it was more along the lines of, “You do realize that if you get pregnant, your life is basically over. Don’t expect me to babysit.”

The religion thing, I don’t personally ever remember going through a serious crisis of not believeing in God. God existed, and that was all there was to it. Get on with your life. So what am I supposed to say? Wait for her to grow out of it? My sister went through this when she was in high school, but it was mainly because she got involved with a local borderline Christian cult, who ostracized her at school when she expressed skepticism concerning some of their teachings, and it burned her out of Christianity. “Forever”, she said, and she wandered around with Rosicrucianism and stuff like that for years, but now she’s sort of settled down into a kind of pastiche of world religions. Well, she’s a grown woman and can make up her own mind. But is there something I can do to help my not-quite-17-year-old daughter?

2

And, of course, if I let her know I’ve been reading her posts, she’ll stop posting, and my information source will have dried up.

There’s other stuff in there, too, about problems with friends, that makes me just want to put my arms around her and say, “Oh, baby…”

[sigh]

3

I feel kind of odd giving advice to you - you seem so wise, and I seem so foolish.

OK. I’m not a mum. I do remember my teenage years quite clearly, though. I’ve also done quite a bit of research into sex education for an educational project I’m working on. (I can’t help you with your daughter’s religious philosophy.)

Firstly, I’d strongly advise you not to confront her directly. Don’t admit that you’ve been snooping. That’s all she’ll be able to see, and it’ll seriously damage her trust in you. (yes, I know she’s damaged your trust in her - but I’ve never forgiven my mum for reading my diary 10 years ago. Think 10 years into the future.)

Secondly, kids need to understand about sex and relationships. The emotional side of sex and teen love is almost always overlooked in sex education. It’d be great if you could talk to her about her relationship - about whether her and her BF love each other, respect each other, who that respect is shown etc. I wouldn’t go straight in with a question about sex. Try not to talk about sex with her as something that you let someone else do to you — I think that gives young girls the wrong sort of ideas.

It can help a great deal to talk about hypotheticals. If you make all your discussions about her and what she might be doing, she’ll feel defensive. (Storylines from TV dramas can be v. helpful here. I don’t know if you have anything like Grange Hill or EastEnders over there…) Also, if you talk about hypotheticals/fictional characters you’ll find it easier to hide your concern and keep the discussion on an emotionally even keel. (My mum and I found it very difficult to talk about sex, partly because her fear and anxiety were so very apparent)

Thirdly, teenagers need help with risk management. Teens tend to feel indestructible -it’s the “I might get run over by a bus tomorrow, so why worry about anything today” syndrome. If you do have a conversation about the risks of early sexual activity, arm yourself with plenty of facts. (Here’s one for your Cat: the failure rate of ‘nothing’ as a contraceptive is 85% over the course of a year). Chat about other sorts of risks people take, too. Get her used to the idea of evaluating risk.

Lastly (for now) in my opinion, this sort of thing is the teen’s on decision. However, the decision will rest on their conscience in the future, so they deserve support and guidance.

Good luck talking to your daughter, Mrs Goose. Just don’t go in there all guns blazing - let it arise naturally out of a few casual mother and daughter chats.

4

Ehm, I don’t mean any disrespect but I read the first part of this post thinking it was a joke. Sorry, I guess I need more hand on experience with American values, you people really amaze and confuse me sometimes.

How can one “experiment with atheism”? You live in free country and what people believe is up to them. You can’t dictate anyone’s feelings about life, the universe and everything and frankly I do not see why anyone would want to.

The sex thing I understand a little better, but from where I’m standing it’s still a very very normal part of life. She’ll grow into it, rather than out of it, meaning you’re fighting an uphill battle.

You have all my sympathy however, since this is obviously draining you emotionally, and no one can dictate the way you feel about raising your kids. Just remember individuality goes both ways.

— G. Raven

5

Well, I was a 16 year old who didn’t really care all that much about whether or not God existed, and I was screwing around with boyfriends, although it was usually in my bedroom, not theirs. I think I turned out OK, or at least, nothing really bad ever happened to me, I managed to go to college, and I can now support myself.

I was pretty close to my mother, and thought my Dad was complete ass. I was sorta afraid of him, when it comes right down to it. I see now that most of my feelings towards him were more a result of me being a teenager than anything else - now that I’m 31 years old, I think my Dad was/is a fine person, and an excellent parent. But sometimes you just don’t see that when you’re 16.

My advice to you: Don’t worry about the atheism thing. Religion is a very private issue, and most people don’t really settle into a religious belief system until their late 20’s. She’s experimenting now, and that’s what she should do. Heck, even such renowned religious figures like C.S. Lewis went through phases where they tried atheism. If anything, experimenting with other beliefs builds a stronger platform for your own belief. Let her do her thing.

The sex part is a little more difficult. If she’s anything like I was, she’s not going to stop diong it if she’s already started. When I started staying out late with boyfriends, my mother took me aside and told me “I don’t know what you’re doing out there, but I really, really worry about you. If you’re having sex, please please please go get on the pill.” Back then, disease wasn’t as big of a deal, so maybe you want to throw something in about that. In my home town, Planned Parenthood was a great resource - they were confidential, they answered all my questions, and they supplied condoms and other forms of birth control for free. You may want to steer her that way.

Another note - the number one thing that made me listen to my Mom was that I could tell from her body language that she was very, very worried about me. I did love my Mom, and didn’t want to do anything to hurt her, so I generally took note of what she told me. Had she come down with a hard hand, I would have gotten pissed and stubborn. But the “Please, daughter, take care of yourself. You’re the most important thing in the world to me, and if anything ever happened to you I’d be devistated.” alwasy worked. BTW, she always waited up for me, too. After about the second time of coming home late when she’d be up crying her eyes out because she’d thought something happened to me, I always came home on time. I just couldn’t do that to her.

I think the most important thing here is to keep the communications lines open. I wouldn’t tell her you found her diary, but I also wouldn’t read it anymore. Just be there for her - listen to her when she wants to talk, and reinforce that you love her to death.

6

Well, I’m not a parent so perhaps I’m missing something, but it seems to me that you had absolutely no business reading that file. Private journals are sacred, especially for teenagers – they NEED a space where they can express themselves without fear. I can’t think of a situation where reading your child’s diary would be justified, unless you had good reason to think she was in physical danger. She, presumably, trusted you to respect her privacy; you violated that trust. Knowing a few things you’d rather not know is the price you pay.

Do have the serious birth-control talk (it’s important, and you can’t assume that she already knows this stuff), but DON’T let on that you know her private business. It will wreck your relationship for years, perhaps for good. (I don’t have time to look it up now, but there was a thread around New Years’ in which several posters, now well beyond their teenage years, mentioned that they have never forgiven their parents for reading their diaries.) The rest of the stuff, the atheism and the way she feels about her dad, doesn’t pose any physical risks, so you have no reason to get involved there (and you can’t do anything about it, anyway).

Oh, and don’t even THINK of doing it again. Ever. No matter how great the temptation may be, you’ll be hurting yourself, your daughter, and your relationship.

7

Wow Duck, this is quite a messy one. I am not a parent of a teen girl but I was a teen girl (tho a pretty atypical one), and I have a pretty typical younger sister (19). So here goes. And FWIW, I am 24.

First off, I know honesty is important to a good relationship, blah, blah, blah, but I would not tell The Cat that you stumbled onto her diary. Only because she will probably want to know why you didn’t stop reading as soon as you realized it was her file. It won’t matter that your finding it was an accident. Perhpas it is dishonest, but I think in the long run it will promote harmony and preserve trust in the Goose household.

And sharing it with Mr. Goose. Hmm. I don’t know. I am going to defer to some of the married folk on the board. I think I would be inclined to keep this between you and The Cat, but I don’t know what a husband might think of that. I do know that I have on occasion asked my mother to keep things just between us and the few times she didn’t I was pretty upset.

As for what is going on with her, maybe you can just tell her you think it is time for another one of “the talks” now that she is spending time at the BF’s house. Address the pregnancy issue again, and of course underline the “I am not babysitting for you!” portion. My brother could have benefitted from hearing this a few thousand times. Of course neutering him may have been more helpful. :wink:

Unfortunately I can’t offer much help from a teen’s perspective, since these whipper-snappers today are a completely different beast than what I was and hung around with. But from what I have picked up on from my sister, the stigma you & I remember of having sex with one or many partners is now practically non-existent. “Hooking up” is seen as innocuous as spin the bottle. :eek:!

I am not saying The Cat has the same cavalier attitude, but it may be a force she is dealing with. I would kind of work my way up to a serious conversation about sex and relationships. And I absolutely echo Tansu’s advice about discussing her relationship, and keeping the tone of the conversation informational rather than fearful and confrontational (easier said than done, right?).

I think the tougher issue is the atheism. Did she talk about why she feels this way? I can remember feeling abandoned by God during my mid-teens because of things going on in my life. Then, when things turned around, I was able to gain perspective. Tansu hit on a very true sentiment: teenagers typically do not think about tomorrow. If life is awful right now, then it will always be awful, and it always has been awful. They are terribly myopic creatures. :slight_smile: Perhaps The Cat is having some serious growing pains right now and is searching for why? I don’t think there is anything you can really do to address this, since it gets a little specific (to the diary). Unless your family is in the habit of discussing religion. Then you might be able to do this in the context of one of those talks. If not, just letting her know you are always open to listen to whatever questions or pressing issues she is dealing with should be a little push for her.

I hope The Cat stays safe and that the two of you are able to talk (to ease both your minds!).

8

Ehm, she’s 16!?

The legal age of consent where I come from is 14 and untill last year you were totally independant at age 16 (apart from financial responsibility (credit cards) at age 18), so that’s where my perspective comes from.

This is all pretty strange to me so I was wondering if anyone could try and explain to me why sex and and an independant belief system is a bad thing at age 16, it had honestly never occurred to me.

— G. Raven

9

I’ll leave the sexual exploration issues to others. For the faith issues, may I suggest that you take a look at James Fowler’s book on faith development
Stages of Faith

I read it a few years back, and it does a pretty good job of exploring the various developmental stages and pathways in a maturing faith…I found it quite helpful.

10

::grinning at the irony of Morrison advocating free thought:: :wink:
I think, Morrison, that the issue here isn’t that DDG wants to force her daughter to toe the line and believe everything she tells her to. Renouncing a faith in a god is a pretty bog step to take, and is usually brought about by something notable happening. I am sure DDG is curious as to what this might have been, and is hoping her daughter is making the decision for the “right” reasons.

Now as for the sex issue…age of consent at 14?! Yikes. I can’t imagine having to deal with sex at 14. For me the issue would be not wanting my daughter to become pregnant and have to deal with that new set of choices. A pregancy alters your life forever, planned or not. Even with birth control (which I must say is sadly lacking here in the U.S.), things happen, and I would prefer my daughter not take that risk. And it is also quite a culture shock to find that your child is living an entirely different way than you would have at their age.

It isn’t about conformity, it is about the best way to help your child deal with these stressful issues without throwing their life off track.

11

DDG, I don’t think you need to be concerned about the ethics of reading her posts. If you want privacy, you don’t post to something called “Open Diary” on the family computer.

My suggestion would be to bring up the sex question alone with her. You don’t need to tell her that you know she has been experimenting. Just express your concern. One thing you could do would be to ask her what she would do in a sexual situation, as if it were hypothetical. And, whatever you do, keep her father out of it until you’ve had a chance to speak with her first.

As for the atheism question, I’m not sure I can help you, being an atheist myself. You can’t force someone to believe, it’s something they either come to or they don’t. You can only lead by example on this one.

12

Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about the atheism thing. Seriously. And this from a Christian. Her religion is between her and God; He’s big enough to handle her questions.

Now, Sex. That’s a different matter. DO NOT tell her you read her diary (and don’t do it again. Respect her enough to let her have space). I know you love your daughter dearly and are worried for her. What you could do is catch her alone and say:

“Hey, I know you and Boyfriend have been dating for a while and I want you to know that if you decide that you are mature enough to handle a sexual relationship and want to take the relationship to that stage, please let me know so we can get you on birth control. You know I wouldn’t be happy about your decision but I would much rather be unhappy with that than have get pregnant because you were afraid to ask me to take you to the doctor.”

And should you tell her dad? No. A thousand times no.

13

This is too important to make any assumptions. Go buy the girl some condoms, and make sure she knows how to use them. Do that today. Then make an appointment with an OB/Gyn to discuss options and assess sexual health. Take her if you like, but only go in if she asks.

Be aware that her relationship with this boy may not be mutually monogomous – boys will take what they can get. This puts your daughter right in the chain for some pretty serious, even deadly, diseases.

What you wish the situation to be, and what reality is, are different. You have to go with reality here, and help protect your daughter’s health and well-being. This includes letting her make some decisions about her own body and personal beliefs. If you try to force anything, it just gets worse, trust me.

Your daughter sounds like a perfectly normal 16 year old girl. That means she’s also been exposed to drug use, probably more than you realize. Make sure you have that talk too.

Good luck, and thanks for being today’s reminder to be thankful I have only boys.

14

Oh, DDG, I feel for you. I am not a parent, so the best I can do is empathize, but I know you are in a tough and painful position.

I’m not all that far removed from my teenage years (I’m in my mid-20s now), but I went down a similar path your daughter is starting now (although I began at 17, not 16). My mother was as deeply shocked as you-- she discovered my bc pills in my cosmetics bag when she went looking to borrow a comb. I felt awkward and shy talking with her about it, and had gone to Planned Parenthood on my own since I was getting pretty serious about my boyfriend. Although I know you don’t want to hear this, once a person gets started on sex, they won’t stop. It’s best that she be prepared (hopefully by you) to make the best decisions possible.

If you don’t want to confront her directly about how you came to know what you know, you may just want to say, “You seem to be getting pretty serious about your boyfriend. I’ve set up an appointment for you at Planned Parenthood, because I want you to stay healthy and smart.” The PP folks are wonderful at providing great information in a neutral environment or tone. They neither encourage nor discourage sexual behavior, they simply allow young women (and men) to be well-informed about what they’re getting into.

As for the religious aspect of her growing up, she’s simply struggling to find her identity. Questioning your own beliefs is the first step to truly understanding them. It doesn’t mean she’s reached or gone through a crisis. It just means she’s paying careful attention to the world around her and hasn’t had everything explained to her satisfaction. The best thing you can do is let her figure it out on her own. Faith based on habit doesn’t help you through difficulties. Faith because you have determined your own relationship (or lack thereof) with God and the world can be much more meaningful.

15

DDG; I am the mother of 3 girls, all now grown. But when they were teens, I went through a similar situation with one of them. I too found letters she had written, and was sorry I had seen them. I would not tell your daughter that you have seen her diary, and I would not read it again. If you have good communication with her, use it and strengthen it. If not, work on it hard. She has to have a person to come to if and when things go bad. She has to know she can count on you no matter what happens, and like my daughter, will likely open up and talk to you given time. As for the religious aspect, it is healthy to question beliefs, and if you have built a strong foundation, this should not be that difficult an issue for her. The hurdle my daughter and I had the most difficulty getting past, was the breech of trust in my reading her letter. She did come around although it took months, she did come to me, and I was there. Good Luck to you both.

16

Well, I’m not a parent, but I’m a 24 year old young woman with three younger sisters, so I feel (somewhat) qualified.

I feel bad for you that you don’t feel that you can talk to your daughter about this stuff. I have trouble identifying with that part of it, because I was one of those dorks who could tell her mother anything (and there was no point in keeping a secret from her, because she always found out anyway). I think you have to trust your instincts on this one. Teens are headstrong. By trying to change her mind about having sex or her religion, you might just drive her away from you. If you think she can handle a conversation with you about it, then I think you should have one. She’s 16, but she still needs a mother. If you think she’ll just fly off the handle, I’d avoid it.

You don’t want her to push you away, because you have to get her to trust you enough to let you take her to the OB/GYN to get on the Pill or Depo-Provera. I know that this might sound like something you don’t want to do, but I urge you to reconsider. I have known way, WAY too many teenage girls who relied on condoms for birth control. Many ended up pregnant.

If she’s started having sex, she’s not going to stop until/unless she decides she wants to. But if you really care about her, you’ll put aside your disagreement with what she’s doing and take her to see a doctor. You don’t even have to tell her that you know she’s having sex. Just insist that she go because she has a boyfriend and “it’s just in case you decide to do something.” Plus, it’s unhealthy to be engaging in sex and not seeing a gynecologist annually, regardless of whether you want birth control. Most teens won’t seek out this kind of medical help alone.

And there’s always the chance that this could help bring you closer together. Maybe, if you do this, she’ll feel more comfortable opening up to you. The key to all of this is being non-judgmental. What she’s doing probably doesn’t accord with your belief system. It doesn’t accord with mine, either. (The teen sex part, anyway.) But helping her prevent pregnancy doesn’t have anything to do with approval of her behavior (or it shouldn’t). You’re just helping her keep from compounding her mistakes.

I hope this helps, and that you find some kind of good resolution to this sticky situation.

17

If this is the opendiary.com that I think it is - I don’t see how you’re invading her privacy. Any one of us could go read it right now, you could have stumbled on it while waiting for the SDMB to load, a friend could have alerted you to it saying “hey, this sounds like The Cat, you should check it out.”

She’s rented a bulletin board and announced her feelings… you just stumbled on the rough draft. To me there’s a huge difference between this, and a parent hunting through a child’s room and searching out their journal - or even reading an obviously private one on the computer.

As someone else for whom the sex & atheism would both be worrying - I don’t know… could they be connected? Are there other adults out there that she talks to? Are there teenagers at your church that she’s close to? Could you talk about it using news stories (every so often one comes up about younger and younger teenagers and pre-teens having sex earlier and what it means to American society)?

I wouldn’t tell her dad. I would guess that would just make things much worse.

18

Oh dear, ignore what I wrote earlier – not being familiar with the concept of WWW diaries, I assumed this was a file your daughter meant for her eyes only. That does change things, and I apologize if my first post came across as harsh.

That said, I still don’t think you should read it any more, unless your daughter gives you her express permission.

19

DDG, my heart truly goes out to you, and alas, I do not feel qualified to give you much substantive advice.

Other than - don’t worry about being “nosy”. As others have said, it’s a more-or-less public diary. Also, Cat is a minor, and you are her parent. While (obviously) I wouldn’t let her know that you know, there’s nothing wrong in trying to look after your minor child daughter. (What? You wanna end up ill-informed and out-of-the-loop like some parents? We’ve seen how badly that can turn out!)

As far as the atheism thing goes - maybe what she says in her diary will give you a clue as to what is prompting her to doubt, but as others have said, you probably need to take a “hands-off” approach. With something like religious faith, the LAST thing you wanna do is “force” it. But you sound so sensible, I am sure you already know this. What you should do is pray for her. (Which I’ll bet you’re already doing.) You never want to underestimate the power of a loving mother’s prayers for her daughter. It’s too bad that so many people think that “it’s come to this, all I can do is pray” (as if it’s the last resort of the desperate and hopeless) but in reality, it’s the FIRST and BEST thing you can do. Never underestimate the loving faithful prayer of a devoted mother. It can have great power.

20

To follow up on Q.N Jones’s post (really, really great first post there!) - condoms are very effective for birth control and protection against sexually transmitted infections if used correctly. I would follow the advice of Marie Stopes International and suggest the Pill or Depo-Provera for birth control coupled with condoms for safer sex.

If you can look at contraception from the p.o.v of minimising risk rather than condoning behaviour, and if the Cat can see your concern from the p.o.v of minimising risk rather than condemning behaviour, you should be OK. (Also, make sure she’s comfortable and confident enough to discuss contraception with her BF)

If you want her to think about the appropriateness of her sexual relationship, you’d be best off talking about the relationship and any issues that may be there (although be prepared for there to be none - for sex to be desired equally by both parties). As Q.N Jones says, once comeone has started having sex with a partner, they are unlikely to stop.

Really, the number one best thing you can do as a mum is make it clear that you really love your daughter and care about her. I’m sure you do that already every single day. (I’ve read your posts. You sound like a great mum).