Oh, Gawd. Need serious advice. Parents of teen girls, gather 'round...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Some other angles you might consider:

(1) Are you sure what she’s written is what is really going on in her life? I checked out the opendiary.com website and find it odd that teens would post true stories about their lives in such a format (but hey, I’m probably out of it).

Could The Cat have made exaggerated diary entries and left the bookmark and the entries there to test you? (Heh! This will really get mom’s goat!!)

(2) How likely is Mr. DDG to find the same bookmark and read the diary entries himself? If so, The Cat needs to be aware that she’s left a trail to her diary and will apprecite your telling her about the trail.

You might consider asking her about the bookmark next time you are on the computer. “Honey, do you know what this is?” Of course, you’ll have to be prepared for some quizzing (“Did you open it? Did you read it?”), but her reaction might be enough to tell if she’s really been doing the things that are written in the diary.

If you have strong reason to believe that she’s really doing what is written in the diary, then I agree with the other posters who suggest you have the sex talk with her and be clear about how much STD’s and pregnancy’s can wreck peoples’ lives. Also, don’t fret the atheism stuff too much. Kids need some way to rebel against their folks, if not this, it could be something worse.

Finally, I recall being scared that my folks would find out that I wasn’t the perfect kid they thought I was. I was scared that I’d get in trouble with them. I was scared that my dad would think up truly horrible punishments (as in groundings and extra chores, not physical harm, btw). I’d wager that’s what The Cat means when she writes that she fears dad.

Good luck.

22

First off, do not tell her. No way. If I were 16 going on 17, I would be absolutely mortified if I found out that my mother had read my diary. Not that I didn’t tell her most things anyway, but still.

And you should definitely not tell Mr. Goose. You had no business reading that, but you stumbled across it and well, what’s done is done. He, on the other hand, doesn’t need to know. Teenage daughter and dads can be a terrible combination. In my experience, they just don’t understand each other.

That’s really all I had to say. I can’t help you on the religious aspect, basically because I’m an atheist myself and I don’t think I’m doing so bad. I was also out having sex with my first serious BF when I was 16. I did tell my mom though. I came home late from school one day and she asked me where I’d been. “Planned Parenthood. I figured I’d better get on the pill.” She was cool about it. She asked if we both were tested and healthy, I said we were and that was that.

23

I’m not one for quoting whole posts, but this one needs to be reread…it’s VERY good advice.

Bravo BunnyGirl!

24

DDG, there’s lots of good advice here. I especially agree with Bunnygirl, Danalan, and Beadalin. I think that once she’s started, The Cat isn’t going to stop unless she decides it is the right thing to do. It might be she wants more knowledge, or that she wants to please the BF, or wants to be able to brag to her friends that she’s “doing it” too. Regardless, the decision to stop experimenting will come from within.

I doubt that coming down hard on her will do any good now. I think you’d do better to talk with her, and say something like, “You’re getting older now, and you need to know how to protect yourself. I’d rather you used abstinence, but if you’re going to be sexually active, you should protect yourself from pregnancy and diseases”. Then ask her if you can make the appointment with PP or the local equivalent, and the gynocologist. Make it her decision, though, and you’re more likely to get her participation. I also cautiously agree with planting the idea that BF may not be completely monogamous. At that age, most boys thing more with their gonads than their cortex - I know I did. The reason I say cautiously, as that she might look at this as an attempt by you to split them up. Maybe you can present it as a possibility, and use it to support your case that way.

Also, give her some long-term goals to focus on. Does she want to go to college? Or work during the summers for extra money? Ask her if she’d be able to do this if she has a kid to care for, or a disease that could very well kill or disable her. Tell her that having a kid is like being grounded for 18 years.

I don’t know what to tell you about telling Dad. I’m a dad, sometimes we’re surprisingly flexible, sometimes that knee will jerk so fast you’ll get whiplash trying to watch it. It’s your call - do you think in the long run he’ll support your position, or fly off the handle and go tear the BF into small pieces? You know better than I do on that.

Best of luck with this, and try to keep the lines of communication open. It’s not easy being a parent, as I keep finding out every day!

25

DDG, apparently I do not share your values, as my first reaction was also “this is a problem?”.

But, since you seem to be genuinely concerned about your relationship with your daughter, here’s what I’d advise: Forget you read it. And never read her diary again. And don’t tell her dad, since you know he’ll just overreact even more than you are.

If you’re really worried about her being safe with sex, then do as someone else said and bring it up and buy her some condoms/pills. But don’t tell her about your snooping, unless you think that your relationship can survive such a blow. And it will be a harsh blow.

Bear in mind, I’m much closer to her age than yours. And I also don’t think sex or atheism is immoral or wrong in any way, but my advice is on how to not make your daughter hate you.

26

Teenagers are God’s speed brake to make sure you don’t get too happy OR too sad.

Since I have three in the house right now, I can sympathize, although I’d be lying if I told you I had an answer.

First, if she hasn’t already, it’s about time the Cat moves from a pediatrician to an adult doctor anyway. Get her into a gynecologist and make sure (beforehand) the doctor knows why it’s time to make the change.

Second, don’t tell your husband, at least not yet. I’m not a big fan of secrets, but sometimes these things work themselves out.

As for the atheism, I know. Our daughter decided to put a knife through our hearts with her unique interpretation of Christian doctrine. I have to give Mrs. Kunilou credit for coming up with a fine solution: “If you aren’t going to believe, you’d better make sure you know what you don’t believe in.” It helped that we had a fine example in our own family – my father, the agnostic, who was so well-read he could compare and contrast the views of the Bible, the Koran and the Book of Mormon without cracking a sweat. As a result, our daughter has probably familiarized herself with more passages from the Bible than Mrs. Kunilou and I combined, and watches every religion-themed movie and TV show out there, from those dull PBS things to “Dogma.” If she doesn’t believe, at least she respects, which isn’t so bad.

27

DDG,

I have been debating with myself about replying to this. But I was in a similar situation at about the same age. I was sexually active starting at 16 and I am Atheist even though my parents were Christian.

At that point in my life, my parents still wanted to control me and to take care of their little boy. And me, being the headstrong teen, wanted no part of that. It is very much give and take at that stage of the relationship and parents have to realize that the person they are raising isn’t going to be a mirror image of them. Things that the parent finds extremely important may be only marginally important to the teen (both then and throughout their life).

Sex and religion are two of the biggest issues that can come up. What both groups have to realize is that these decisions are very personal (as others have stated on this thread). Some people regard sex as a very private thing only to be done with a husband and wife, others (such as myself) only participate in sex with people once we get to know them and have a loving relationship, and still others have sex with any and everyone just because it feels good. None of these things makes any a person bad. It just makes them people with different values. My parents never found about my sexual activity, but my father tried to give me a rather comical talk about protection WAY after the fact. So I recommend sitting down to talk with your daughter and treating her like an adult. You really have to trust that you raised a good person at this point. Like others have said, any attempt to stop the behavior will end badly and may hurt your relationship.

I just wanted to add, that the sex I had with my girlfriend in High School was done out of love, and mutual exploration, both physically and mentally. I view it as one of the most special things that has happened to me in my life and a very positive experience that taught me about love and the importance of giving in a relationship.

As for the Atheism, there was a rift between my mother and I because of that. However, she did respect my beliefs although she did not agree with me. You do have to be prepared that she might not be going through a phase, as others have indicated. She may end up being as strong in her convictions as you are in yours. Again, this does not make her a bad person. My advice again, is to treat her with the same respect you would another adult.

As for reading her online diary, this is the problem that struck a bad chord with me. I do think it was a mistake to read a private diary, and it would be an even bigger mistake to confront her about it. I would use your knowledge to try to build a stronger relationship with your daughter by discussing love, sex, protection, and safety.

I just wanted to add that my mom and I were very close up until I turned 17. We had an incident where she read a journal of mine and confronted me. She died suddenly 6 months ago just before my 25th birthday. We were never close again after her snooping. And now I regret that, I would do anything to hug and trust her again…but it’s too late. But this is starting to sound like glourge, so I will cut it out.

Tony

28

Hmmm… speaking as the fairly protective father of a very smart 14 year old girl I offer these observations.

With respect to the privacy issue for a teenager below the age of 18 I would not hesitate for a heartbeat to read my daughter’s diary or otherwise turn her room upside down and inside out if I though she was getting involved in drugs or some similarly dangerous situation. It’s your responsiblility to snoop if you think there’s something potentially dangerous going on. If this offends some people’s delicate sensibilities…tough. My obligation, as a responsible parent, to know what is going on outweighs her privacy rights. Orders of magnitude more damage is done by clueless, head in the sand parents than pro-active parents aware of what’s going on.

Having said this if I have didn’t have a vibe that something was amiss I would consider her room and possessions sacrosanct. I have explained this position in detail to her and she is fully aware of what will happen if things get goofy. So yes, like many mothers, you were probably pushing the snoop envelope a little hard but it’s not anything you should beat yourself up about.

With respect to the sharing with Daddy issue my personal inclination (as a Daddy) is to “feel” strongly that you should but, per your description of him, in some ways I can easily put myself into his place and if I was hit with this news cold (given his philosophical posture) there would probably be a ceiling tile or two missing in my house as well which in all honesty I have to admit is probably not the best initial tack in this situation (i.e. Mom worried Dad angry and teenager shut down).

If I was in your position I would prioritize the situation re the experimental sex and nascent atheism dilemma. Given the nature of modern society there is nothing you can really do within the bounds of reasonableness to make an intelligent 16 soon to be 17 year old believe or dis-believe in God so I would back burner this. Assuming she’s going to college and will lead a good moral and ethical life this is one of these things you need to let her work out for herself. I love to have conversations of this nature re the epistemology of belief with my 14 year old. It’s some our most special bonding times and meaningful conversations.

Re the sex issue all I can speak to would be my position in a similar circumstance which is that it (anything beyond necking) would stop immediately and she is not to see this boy without supervision. When she turns 18 in just over 12 months she can do as she wishes but until that time she’ll just have to get by without gettin’ busy. If this offends some who feel that a truly groovy and progressive parent should have a more laissez faire attitude toward teenage sexual experimentation I reiterate my perspective…tough beans you’re not raising her I am. I’m not her pal I’m her parent.

With respect to broaching the sex experimentation issue I would not mention that you saw it in her online dairy. Just sit her and Romeo down (possibly with Romeo’s mom in attendance as well) and tell her that while you sympathetic to the stirrings of youth you are not prepared to be granny yet and that abortions are no fun and her interaction with Romeo is going to be a lot more constrained for the next 12 months. Period. Ask Romeo how he intends on going to college while supporting a family at 18 years of age. This does wonders in focusing a young man’s mind on the issue at hand. She will rant, rave, sulk and probably be a PITA for some period of time but that’s to be expected.

You need to include Dad at some point in this process but as to when you know your hub and that’s your call.

29

I’m not a parent of a teenager or even a teenager myself (anymore). But I had a mother who would read through everything and then tell the world what she found out or thought she had found out. As someone who is still hiding things from her mother, but as someone who is graduating from college and has a promising future, my advice would be as follows: don’t tell her father, don’t tell your daughter that you were reading her stuff. However, take her to the family doctor to get a physical and to be put on the pill. Have the doctor give the talk about what happens when you fool around. At least she’s protected, but she’s still free to explore her options. And don’t force the church thing…my mother did and I don’t think I could ever go back. She’ll have to figure that out on her own. (You might want to mention that if you don’t want someone to read things that she might want to hide them a bit better.) She’ll be okay–she’s in NHS, she’s obviously smart and a hard-worker, college-bound–she’ll turn out fine. Let her explore a little bit, and let her march to a few different drummers for now and she won’t resent you later.

30

DDG, I cannot emphasize astro’s point of view enough.

Granted, I’m not a parent, so I may be talking out my ass. But asto is a parent, I think he’s hit the nail on the head on all counts.

I also cannot emphasize enough the concept that you are her PARENT, and she is the minor child. I think astro’s right on about getting Romeo and parents together with the Cat and letting all know how it’s going to go. Getting Romeo in on the picture is a GREAT idea. He’s definitely a big part of this equation - why not let him know what you’ll expect from him if he impregnates your daughter?

This is such a painful issue. Some friends of mine have a (silly) young daughter who decided to start sleeping with her boyfriend. Parents warned her against this, and told her that if she were to have a kid, she’d be on her own. Well, yeah, you guessed it. Daughter had a kid. The parents are too soft-hearted to leave the daughter in the lurch. Suffice it to say that these parents are supporting the daughter, and the grandkid. (There’s more, much more to the story, but this thread isn’t about my friends’ daughter, it’s about DDG and her daughter.)

This sort of thing upsets me. The parents often end up with a lot of the responsibility when their kid gets pregnant. You are not (as a parent) overreacting because you are trying to protect your kid, (and yourself) from this.

31

I like astro’s answer.

And the “Open Diary” thing suggests a subconscious desire to be caught. It may not be, but well enough. It’s a lucky break for you. Thank God you know now.

Don’t be too hostile or confrontational. Do be serious. This is the big stuff, the real deal.

Oh yeah. THIS WILL HURT.

32

I won’t address the whole sex thing, but as far as religion is concerned: don’t try to force yours on her. If she’s sixteen or seventeen, she’s old enough to start making her own decisions about what she believes. My parents have forced me to go to church, Sunday school, and youth group for the past few years, despite the fact that I consider myself agnostic. If anything, it will turn her off to the religion even more to have it shoved down her throat. I realize that I may change my mind in the future regarding my beliefs, but for now they are very clear-cut in my mind and if I, for whatever reason, decide to return to Christianity, it will have to be a decision I make on my own.

For the record: I have, as long as I can remember, been wary of my parents’ religion, but only a few years ago was I able to tell myself that I truly did not believe in it. I have not ever, since then, thought that my decision was a bad one.

Fretful Porpentine: Do you mean this thread?

33

I am seventeen, and I think i can advise you a little better, knowing what it’s like to be this age at this time…
the religon thing:
Kids will decide what they want about religon, and if you try and force your religon into them you, they’re going to resist even more…
the sex thing:
I’m very sure that you had the best intentions at heart when you started this post, but there are two things you can do about it, so that she won’t hate you later:
one: nothing, pretend to be oblivious… but make sure you have a “sex talk”, a real one, none of this “don’t expect me to babysit” stuff
two: Do something, tell her what happened, voice your concerns and make sure you don’t tell the “better half” unelss she okay’s is, cayse if she doesn’t want him to know, or wants to talk to him about it herself, you should let her make that decision. It would be different if she had come to you, but she didn’t, you made a mistake, and therefore, you didn’t come by this information in a fashion in which you can talk about it with your “better half”… if you tell him, it will cause a rift between you and your daughter which you may not be able to mend, ever.
And I disagree that leaving your diary out means you want to me caught. It doesn’t, if she left it out in her room or in a simmaraly privet place it means that she trusts you enough to know that you wouldn’t ever look through her things, and because you read it you broke that trust, which you will never regain, trust me… mom read my diary when I was younger, before I did anything and I still haven’t forgiven her fully… and you should hear how much I fume when i remember that dad read my poetry cause I “left it out” on my dresser… you shouldn’t read your kid’s journal, it’s wrong…
I hope this helped a little…
—Sarah

34

I can’t speak from a parent’s point of view, but I can speak as the teenage daughter who’s mom discovered everything I was up to. When I was 15 (a little more that 4 years ago), I became sexually active, experimented with drugs (minor stuff, nothing stupid), and was hanging out with older kids who were indirectly messing up my life. My mom moved us up north, and made my life even more miserable. I basically closed up to her after that, I still haven’t really opened back up again. Because she was worried about what I was up to, she took it upon herself to go into my AOL filing cabinet and read through my saved emails. (This was back in the day before you could put a password on there…) She lost my trust entirely. Sure, if she’d asked, I wouldn’t have told her what I was up to. But because she went through my stuff, she ruined the possibility of me ever telling her anything. To this day, I refuse to let her be involved in my lif, because I don’t trust her. I see her repeating the same steps with my little sister, who’s now 17, and I feel for them both.

My opinion? Talk to your daughter about what you read, but don’t let her know that you read it. “You know, a friend of mine at work, her daughter has began to believe in Atheism…what do you think about that?” “I hear from Susie that teenagers these days are having sex earlier…do you know kids that are having sex?” It may not help. But I think that if you let her know that you snooped (even if it wasn’t intentional, she won’t see it that way), you’ll possibly have the same effect that my mom had on me.

Good luck…

35

Hi. I belive I’m qualified as a 19 year old from a religious family who put a kid up for adoption last year. I mean, I did, not my family.

Get your daughter on birth control. I would have been if I hadn’t been afraid my parents would be mad at me for being on it. I figured the crap shoot was better than the certainty of the fight I’d have to face to get on the pill. Talk through some basic risk management with the idea that you love her and will support her decisions. Support as in drive her to the OB/Gyn and let her get herself protected from a lifestyle she is choosing. Don’t kick her in the teeth on this one. (well, I mean I guess you can. But I haven’t seen a situation yet where the parent wins.)

Don’t read her journal. Privacy works oddly. My little sister has an online journal and she insists that Mom and Dad shouldn’t read it. No, it doesn’t make sence. But don’t rub her nose in it, she should have freedom to express herself and feel like you trust her. Reading through poorly protected ‘private’ stuff will destroy that. (This is one of the many reasons I adore my mom. I could leave anything resembling almost private material open on her desk and she wouldn’t read it. She’d carefully not read it. If it looked like I was leaving it there for her to read, she’d ask first. Now if I wasn’t sure she’d cry if I told her I was on birth control, life would be perfect.)

And on the religion thing. Its her deal. She’s doing some deep thinking about who she is and how she fits into the world. It may not look like the most ‘right’ thing to you, but could you ask any more of her than to think deeply about life? Its getting to the point where your courses of action are past training, you’ve been training her for years now and she’s growing up. Now you get to change roles from ‘parent as trainer and protector’ to ‘parent as advisor’. Its a rough thing. Parenting isn’t easy. But you can do this, you have done a good job so far.

And if there is anything you would like to discuss with me or my mom, e-mail me. This is one of those important issues for me.

36

I don’t have much to add on the sex issue, but I do have some thoughts on the atheism question.

One friend of mine teaches a freshman theology course, Faith and Critical Reason, at a religion-based college. One of the things that she emphasizes is for her students to come to their own understanding of their religious background, rather than simply and placidly accepting the (usually rather basic) understanding of the faith in which they grew up. One of her students is her “pet atheist”, who is constantly challenging her and the class with his atheist opinion of things. Interestingly, as the semester has progressed, he’s finding it harder and harder to maintain his staunch atheist beliefs.

Another friend of mine is a priest who is in charge of the Newman Center (Catholic student center) at a major university. He also holds masses at the church on campus (including the ever-popular 10 pm Sunday mass). One of the things that he says that he enjoys most about his congregation is that they are all “voluntary attendees.” Because there is no family pressure (either from parents or for the benefit of the kids) to go to church, pretty much everyone who is there wants to be there.

Soon enough your daughter will be at the point where she will be totally free to make her own religious choices. You’ve grounded her in your religious background, but now is the time in her life when she has to look at other options to see if what you believe really fits her. Chances are she’ll wind up pretty close to where she started, but you have to give her the freedom to make the choice hers.

Indeed in both the sex and religion issues, she’s probably dealing with the conflict (at least in her mind) between a mother who’s seems somewhat straight-laced and the freedom she needs to have to make her own choices and become her own person.

I think what she will be looking for is an expression of your love and support no mater what choices she makes. If you give her the room to make her own decisions (even if they aren’t the ones you’d make), it is likely that she’ll make choices that aren’t too bad. If, on the other hand, she fears that any decision that is not precisely in the Duck Duck Goose line will bring your wrath, there’s a good chance that she’ll miss the important distinction between healthy experimentation and truly risky behavior.

Soon enough she’ll be out there in the big, scary world. Show her your love and support and that you’ll be there for her even if she makes mistakes, and she’ll work with you (mostly) rather than fight you.

Good luck!

37

DDG, you probably don’t want to hear, “Get her to an OB/GYN and on some Birth Control.” You probably wanted to hear, “Well, this is exactly how to get her to stop having sex and to believe in Jesus Christ. Step 1…”
I’m sorry you can’t hear the second one.
As an 18 y.o. I’m going to chime in with “take her to an OB/GYN.” You probably don’t want to be seen as “condoning” this activity, but she’s obviously going to do it anyway. It’s probably hard for you, but she’s really not your “little baby” anymore, in the respect that you can decide what she does and with whom. She may have a lil over 12 months to go until she’s legal, but that’s not going to stop her or her boyfriend.
Plus, if you want to inform her on the dangers of S-E-X, having an OB/GYN do it might be more effective.
But why on Earth she is almost 17, and you are uncertain whether or not she knows about Birth Control?!?!?!?!? That’s really, really irresponsible.

Leave her alone about the religion thing. If she is a bright girl, she’ll come to her own conclusions. Hell, even if she’s not a bright girl, she still has the right to choose what to believe…I think God gave her that right, didn’t he?

38

I think the thing here that bugs me the most is the way a few of the respondants are treating the religion issue; namely, treating it as a passing phase, and assuming that a belief in a god is innate, present from birth. Many of us atheists [and atheism isn’t something to believe “in”, Pammipoo] never believed to begin with, ever. It’s very possible, DDG, that your daughter falls into this category. However, if she used to believe, or is doubting her beliefs, consider this: how strong were her beliefs, were they a large part of her life? If yes, then maybe something has happened to cause this dramatic shift; in this case, I’ve found agnosticism to be the most frequent result. If no, she’s probably just deciding what she really believes versus what she’s been taught. I was taught through various sources that there was a god and all that, but it never took root, and my family doesn’t mind at all. I don’t think it would bother them until I started being truly weird.

39

I apologize in advance for the formatting of this post, but I’m still learning how to do this stuff.

Astro says:

“With respect to broaching the sex experimentation issue I would not mention that you saw it in her online dairy. Just sit her and Romeo down (possibly with Romeo’s mom in attendance as well) and tell her that while you sympathetic to the stirrings of youth you are not prepared to be granny
yet and that abortions are no fun and her interaction with Romeo is going to be a lot more constrained for the next 12 months. Period. Ask Romeo how he intends on going to college while supporting a family at 18 years of age. This does wonders in focusing a young man’s mind on the issue at hand. She will rant, rave, sulk and probably be a PITA for some period of time but that’s to be expected.”

I really wish that I thought this would work. You know your daughter better than any of us; maybe it will. But, after they’ve already started having sex, I think it’s awfully late for this discussion to happen. My guess is that if you do this, they’ll keep having sex–they’ll just get sneakier about it, and you can (probably) forget about her ever taking any more advice from you about sexual health issues (namely, going to the gynecologist). And taking her to the gyno is important, because not only could she get pregnant, but condoms aren’t effective against all STDs and who knows what Romeo’s been up to.

I think you could even go so far as to tell your daughter that you know she’s having sex. You don’t have to tell her how you know. You could just flat-out say that you’re not stupid, and that you know all about the vagaries of human nature, or some such thing. It’s a powerful part of the Mom Mystique–“telepathy”. But I think you have to make it clear to her that if she chooses to exercise adult rights, she needs to accept the adult responsibilities that come along with it–namely, taking care of her health and preventing pregnancy.

When it comes right down to it, you can’t change her mind about whether God exists or whether it’s right for her to be having sex. The only thing you can do is help her to recognize the enormity of her situation and then assist her in meeting her new responsibilities.

40

!!!

You have my sympathies. On that note, you’re on your own because I have nothing to offer except communication and get tranqulizers for Dad. He’ll probably need them until she marries.