Oh, Gawd. Need serious advice. Parents of teen girls, gather 'round...

I don’t know that I can really add anything to the other pieces of advice, but I’m 19 and in a scary-similar situation like the one DDG describes… however, I’m a bit older and off at school, so the jurisdiction part may be a bit different… I don’t know.

First of all, DON’T just use the “mom telepathy” idea. I always resented my mother for doing that. It’ll just make her very antsy about life in general, and give her the feeling that someone’s watching her every move, which is not a comfortable place to be. It also might make her suspect that one of her friends is untrustworthy, which is no good either. However, if you only tell this stuff to one person and then your mom “somehow” finds out, it could lead to trouble.

Secondly, my mother once read my diary, but never told me… I found out for myself. Although I can’t make any claims about your daughter, I can say that my knowlege of that incident COMPLETELY ruined my trust in my mother. I now keep a diary online, because I consider it “safer”- i.e. it isn’t lying around waiting to be discovered. She probably isn’t computer-savvy enough to know to delete her history files after she’s done, but that doesn’t make it right to snoop. By accident is one thing, but continuing to read after realizing what it is really cannot be construed as a mistake.

Thirdly, you say that your daughter is on the NHS… which means she’s responsible. Thanks to the years and years of health in school, it’s basically impossible to reach 16 without AT LEAST knowing the basics about birth control- especially if she’s smart and not stupid. All I can say is, at age 16, she’s intelligent and knowlegable to make a choice that you are not going to influence: if she thinks that her safety is less important than a good time, nothing you say is going to change that. Parents don’t have that kind of influence, sad to say.

So, as a conservative teenager, if you want to keep your relationship with your daughter, I suggest you ignore the sex thing. If she were 12 or even 14, I’d say differently. However, in 1 or 2 years she’s going to be out of the house and completely out of your jurisdiction. She thinks she’s old enough to make her own decisions, and I cannot help but agree. Personally, I think it’s ridiculous that teens are having sex younger and younger, but she’s going to do it anyway: either with or without your interference.

About the atheism… I’m an athiest, and my parents are both christian. Not devoutly so, but they both believe in god. Although I think they might be a bit foolish in believing in something they’ve neither seen nor felt, I see it as their personal choice. Your choice is to believe in god. Her choice is not. I don’t see a problem.
~NR

Regarding the atheism: forget all about it. Religion is about belief, and belief cannot be forced. You can drag her to church, you can make her say prayers, and you can teach her that it’s easier to regurgitate the appropraite responses than it is to be honest with you, but you can’t make her actually believe in God. And as a (vaguely troubled but still) Christian myself, I think it’s wrong to try, both in terms of the general principle that people should be able to make their own choices and in terms of the very religion you want her to adopt. We’re supposed to spread the message to those who chose to listen, not force it down people’s throats; that’s the antithesis of everything you want her to believe. Besides which, who has the truer belief: those that blindly accept their parents’ religion without it ever even occuring to them to question, or those who think for themselves and end up deciding that their parents were right after all? I feel that doubt and questioning are a necessary part of belief. Without the possibility of not believing, how can there be belief?
What you can do is be there for her if she wants to talk about her beliefs with you, or even initiate discussions yourself. But never talk with her about it thinking that it’s a ghastly thing that must be ‘fixed’ if she doesn’t believe in God. If it has any effect at all, it’ll be the opposite of the desired one.

I wasn’t going to comment on the sex thing, but I saw NightRabbit’s post on the preview, and I completely agree. I am however, an 18 year old male and am thus stereotypically supposed to be sex obsessed and I also don’t have to so directly worry about pregnancy, so take that however you please.

P.S.

Many of you were saying that there’s nothing unethical about reading the diary of someone you know on the internet.
I completely disagree. Internet diaries are available and used for specific reasons-

  1. It’s relatively private. W/o knowing “history” files or usernames, then you can’t usually find out about someone’s diary

  2. It’s easy! Much easier than worrying about a paper diary being infiltrated (which was a concern of mine).

  3. I can’t talk to any of my friends. I can’t talk to anyone, frankly. But that doesn’t stop me from wanting to. Public diaries are not about “wanting to be caught”… in fact, most of the people I’ve met through the program carry a little honor code that if they ever stumbled across a friend’s they wouldn’t read it, and many have disclaimers that ASK anyone they know who finds the diary to please not read it. Consider it like a meeting of alcoholics anonymous. You know that someone is reading your words, but no one who is going to have a negative impact on you afterwards- which is what we are afraid of about talking to people.

~NR

DDG, I have only this to say: The Cat is a smart kid. She’s your kid, so she has a head start right there. You balance pragmatism and idealism as well as anyone I’ve ever met, and usually better. It cannot help but have rubbed off on your kids, even if The Cat, being a teenager, has difficulty expressing that. :wink:

You have this information now, so the genie’s out of the bottle. I agree with the others that you cannot let your daughter know you have it, because the results will be disastrous. So your best bet, even as you grit your teeth with the knowledge that she’s making decisions that you’d rather she didn’t (children are fairly reliable for doing that), is to provide her with the tools to make those decisions safe and informed ones. Birth control, condoms, the works of St. Thomas Aquinas and C.S. Lewis. Whatever. The more information she has, the better off she’ll be. Again, she’s a smart kid.

And don’t tell her dad. It’s not your information to distribute.

As always, the preceding advice was worth exactly what you paid for it.

I got seriously miffed when I found out my sister was reading my daughters diary. A kid needs a diary or trustworthy sounding board that is not the parent. I have honored my 9 year old daughters privacy and she will learn that is what is expected.

DDG, please don’t make it worse by confronting her with it or sharing the info with her dad and please stop reading her posts before she finds out. Rather gently guide her toward what you see her becoming. At 16, most of your work is done and any heavy handedness will become a wedge. Try treating her as the adult she is becoming and you may be suprised.

Good luck, I am sure it will work out fine. You also might stash a pack of condoms where she will have access to them.

I’d like to thank everyone for being so supportive. I had a miserable few hours of nail-biting yesterday while waiting for people to come home from school/work, and it was nice knowing I’d submitted my problem to the Greatest Support Group in the Known Universe. :slight_smile:

I’d like to clarify, for some people who evidently didn’t get it, that this “diary” wasn’t a book labeled “Cat’s Diary” and I picked it up and read it. What happened was, I was looking for an old link in the History folder, here on the family computer, which five people use. So there were a lot of folders in the “yesterday” History folder, and I’m clicking on them all, looking for the URL, not sure what it was called, and here’s one called Open Diary, and I opened it, and here are a whole bunch of links for a file called “common catch phrase which I didn’t realize was a user name”, and I clicked on about 3 of them, wondering what it was (the Better Half does a lot of Web surfing), and after I’d worked my way through about four, I realized whose voice that was. How many other people on the Web have brothers named Bonzo and boyfriends named Himself, and just went to the store yesterday to get X for their moms? And are posting from this computer? Oh.

And then with deep dismay I realized what the suddenly familiar voice was SAYING, and yes, I kept reading, to find out what was going on in this stranger’s mind.

If it’s any consolation, I did not particularly enjoy the peculiar experience of that paradigm shift where you stop seeing one of your children as the “old kindergartener” and start seeing her as “just another person”. You parents out there know what I mean–whenever you look at your child, you always see the 5-year-old, and the 10-year-old, and the 15-year-old, underneath the overlay of the present-day face. Well, yesterday I had to see my daughter as a real person, not as my Own Personal Child, and it wasn’t fun. So you can say I’ve been punished for reading her diary (which, again, was posted on a public message board on the Internet, for millions of other people to read, and in the History folder on the family computer). And no, I will not go back and read her current entries.

FTR, I do not go through her room, not even to clean it [sigh].

She and the BF actually haven’t been dating for a while. This is not a long-standing mature relationship, where two people who are in love decide to move on to the next logical step. They met a year ago, in sophomore P.E. class, they interacted a few times at school dances, then she “ran off” with him for an afternoon, defying her Mom, who had said, “No, you can’t go over to his house this afternoon and be alone with him in his bedroom”, and she hopped in his (cousin’s) car and went anyway. (I will point out that she was only 15). She ignored Mom’s phone call after an hour, demanding that she get a taxi and come home right now. When Daddy got home from work, he went over there and retrieved her, she was grounded for 2 months, which was a long miserable time for her, I know, and evidently Himself was less than supportive about the whole thing, because when she was un-grounded, she didn’t want to talk to him on the phone, she didn’t want to see him all summer, and when school started up last fall she still didn’t want to talk to him.

Then suddenly at the beginning of April this year everything changed and they were talking on the phone for hours. Picture Keanu Reeves, only scrawnier, and (IMO) weenier. :rolleyes: Not what I had pictured for my beautiful daughter. I think we’re looking at “teen rebellion” here, not True Love. He has no driver’s license yet, not clear to me exactly why, and must rely on his girlfriend (my daughter and her dad’s dorky Caravan) for transportation.

Bonzo seems to dislike him instinctively. Are kid brothers hard-wired to be protective of older sisters when it looks like the older sister might be sexually active? Especially when the Kid Brother himself is just finding out that maybe girls aren’t so useless, after all. Or is it just simple jealousy? Bonzo’s been the Man in The Cat’s life for 14 years now. The Better Half does all the interacting with Romeo for the both of us, is unfailingly courteous to him, and assesses him as “your typical horny teenage male”.

So we’re not looking at The Love Affair of the Ages here. We’re looking at a couple of kids experimenting with kicking over the traces. In her diary, it sounds like they haven’t yet gone “all the way”, they’re just fooling around with First, Second, and Third Bases.

Well, as it happens, since we are the kind of family who all have trouble keeping secrets (what everybody’s getting for Christmas is never a surprise, to anyone), as soon as both parties came home, we had it all out, in a fairly amicable discussion. Quite frankly, it never really occurred to me NOT to tell the Better Half, mainly because it’s been 27 years now, and it seemed a little late to do the “don’t tell Daddy” routine, which I always personally detested. The conspiracy with Mom and the kids, etc. Also, the B.H. came from a dysfunctional family in which this sort of thing DID take place (Daddy drank, and Mom protected the kids from him via information control), and if he ever found out that I’d kept something this important from him, well, I don’t like to think about how hurt he’d be.

And anyway, The Cat caught us having the Serious Parental Discussion Without Interruptions down in the basement (our chosen venue for this–he leans on the freezer, I lean on the washing machine, and we talk). Coming halfway down the stairs, she said, “What are you guys doing down there?”

I said, “Um–talking?”
She said, “Oh,” and went back upstairs.
Then when we came upstairs, there she was, sitting at the computer, getting ready to log on. As a member of the family, she wanted to know what the Serious Parental Discussion had been about. We said, “Um…” and looked at each other, and after a pause I said a little sheepishly, “Well, you were evidently not aware that your Open Diary stuff is right there, in the History folder.”
She said blankly, “So?”
“So–anybody looking for something else could stumble on it, and read them.”
“So?”
“So, I’m sorry, but I was looking for a link and I read a whole bunch of your diary entries without realizing that’s what they were, and I’m very sorry. And that’s what we were discussing.”
She said, “Oh.” And then, differently, “Oh.” And after a few seconds, with immense dignity, she stood up and went upstairs.

So she came down again after about 30 minutes, looking like she’d been crying, and got her purse and the car keys. And Daddy said politely, “Um?”
And she said testily, “I’m just going out, just to get away somewhere.”
Daddy said quietly, “Driving while you’re upset like that is not a good idea.”
I chimed in, “You’re not in trouble, okay? We just want to talk to you. Come and sit down and let’s talk.”
So she came over and sat down on the couch, and we arranged ourselves in what was hopefully a non-confrontational manner, Daddy way over in the Morris chair, and me leaning casually (I hoped) on the back of the couch.

And we covered the following points:

  1. Mom is sorry she read the thing. However, it was very useful to find out what you’re really thinking, because you’re so quiet, we never know what’s going on in your head. Even when you were a toddler, you were like that, very self-sufficient… Now, La Principessa, when she’s upset about something, the whole world knows within seconds, and Bonzo, he sulks and scowls for about 10 minutes, and then out with it. But you… You sounded very unhappy in some of your entries. Is there anything we can do to fix things? Is there anything you want, or need, that isn’t currently being supplied? We talked about this for a while, and all she could come up with was that she’d rather drive the little red station wagon than the Dodge Caravan. Evidently a Dodge Caravan is a dorky vehicle for In The Groove Teens to be driving. The Little Red Wagon was a 1987 Aries wagon, which we had all assumed would be the Kids’ Car when it came time, but then it was getting to be on its last Blue Book legs, and the people across the street were looking for something for their cousin’s sister-in-law’s kid to drive, and they offered the B.H. $1000 cash for it, so when The Cat was 15, he sold it and bought the Caravan. I said, “Well, hey, I miss the Little Red Wagon, too, but we can’t get it back, sorry. Anything else?” No.

Do you know what condoms are and how to use them? Yes.

Are you aware that if you did get pregnant, we would almost certainly, 99% Final Answer, work with the New Life Pregnancy Center and arrange a private adoption for the baby? It’s doubtful that Himself’s family would want it, and your mom has personally resolved never to be a grandma raising grandkids. As Daddy put it, “If you got pregnant, you would have to get a job and support yourself.” [Note: yes, she is planning on going to college.] There are lots of wonderful caring people out there who would give a good life to a baby. Yes, she grasped this point, but I dunno how clearly. Teenagers, “it’ll never happen to me…”

No, we are not going to do the “lock you in the room and forbid you to ever see him again” Romeo and Juliet thing. Generations of parental experience teach us that this does not work, in fact, is counter-productive. You can go on seeing him, as long as you are aware that the biggest reasons in our mind to NOT have sex with him are (1) you might make a baby, and (2) take it from one former horny teenage male, your Dad–as soon as you have sex with him, your relationship will change, and that’s virtually all he will ever be interested in doing with you again. No more talking on the phone for hours–it’ll be, “can you come over here and we can, you know, do it?” We know that you’ve heard other friends of yours complain about the same thing with their boyfriends. She said, impatiently, “Okay, okay…”

About the atheism thing: we understand that you feel a need to distance yourself from your parents and their belief system. I pointed out that when I was a teenager, my parents allowed me to distance myself from their belief system by telling me, “You don’t have to go to church with us, but you do have to go to church somewhere. You can’t just sleep in on Sunday morning, and no, televangelists don’t count.” So they went to one church and I went to another church. This was in a small town, so everything was within walking distance, and the problem of who drove which car didn’t factor in. However, nowadays, The Cat has dibs on the Caravan to drive on Sunday morning, because she’s been going to Sunday School and the contemporary Second Worship Service, and we’ve been taking the big-ass Chevy van to First Service (traditional) and Sunday School. We told her, we’re not going to force you to go to church, but if you’re not going to go to church, we’d like to know, because Daddy would rather drive the Caravan to church than the trailer-towing vehicle. She said, “Okay,” but didn’t clue us in as to what her plans for this Sunday are. There’s been some considerable friction in her church youth group for about 6 months now, for unknown reasons, and I’m wondering whether her conversion to atheism and charges that the church is filled with hypocrisy have something to do with it.

I said, “The problem with your friend, that you mentioned in your diary, we would be glad to help out by such and such monetary proceedings, as a gesture of family solidarity.” She said, impatiently, “That was a JOKE, she posted right after that and said she wasn’t really mad.” Um, okay…

I pointed out that if she registered on a different kind of message board, such as the SDMB, that uses different software, nobody would be able to read what she had posted without knowing her user name. I showed her how vBulletin might include the URL of the Reply window for a particular thread in the History folder, so you would know I might have posted to that thread, but unless you knew what my user name was, you wouldn’t know which post to look for in the thread. With Open Diary, the entire text of the post comes up in the History folder. Dunno what kind of software they’re using. She said, “Well…” and didn’t look too enthusiastic. I said, “You’re not interested in having a conversation, is that it? Open Diary is just about ‘hey, look at me, here I am’?” She brightened up and said, “Yes, exactly.” Hmm. Well, at least she knows what she wants.

So after all this, which was actually surprisingly reasonably received on her part (she didn’t sit there and sulk or pout or scream hysterically, which is progress from what happened a year ago when we had this talk), she went upstairs and talked to Himself on the phone for a long time, and then went over to his house for supper, and from thence to her regular Thursday night babysitting gig. And nobody has really said anything else, except that I will mention to her this afternoon that I promise not to read any more of her Open Diary stuff. When it comes right down to it, I don’t REALLY wanna know, I just want to keep her safe.

So, again, thank you to everyone, and it appears that the crisis is over, for now.

[sigh] Why is there no class for this?

You’re a great mum, Mrs Goose.

It sounds like you handled this in typical DDG fashion: with grace, dignity, wisdom and love. There are probably a lot of people who wish they’d been your kid, Miz Goose…

jayjay

Wow! Sounds like it went well. Honestly, if you’ve got the kind of relationship with your daughter where you can discuss this like y’all did, I would say you’ve got very little to worry about. I mean, it sounds like (from the way the conversation went) that she probably would come to you if they DID start having sex - sounds like a smart girl.

::shheewww!:: Crisis averted.

Well done, DDG, well done. I wish my parents had been this wise on some things. Good luck with the situation, and may grandma-hood elude you for another 10-15 years!

DDG, I’m glad to hear that things appear to have reached such a reasonable conclusion. In rereading your post this morning, it appears that her main disappointment is having an uncool set of wheels. I have a thought that might make that Caravan the thing among The Cat and her friends. The catch - - you just can’t have much of vested interest in what the vehicle looks like.

Offer to let her and her friends paint the thing - - any way they want, along the lines of the Partridge Family (only the Caravan won’t look that good when they’re finished, not that the Partrige’s bus looked all that good). A group of us at college did a similar thing to a friend’s clunker and it worked magic. YMMV, etc.

Okay, I’m gonna sound a semi-wet blanket here. Because honestly, I could be your daughter, DDG. I am VERY quiet. I don’t tell my parents anything, pretty much.

Now then. On to how I see things…as always, as Lux says, this is worth exactly what you paid for it.

One. She’s going to feel VERY hurt you read her diary for a while. Count me in the “as soon as you realized what it was, STOP READING” camp. Been there, done that, I still haven’t forgiven my mother in some ways.

Two. I really don’t see the big deal on the atheism thing. If she doesn’t want to go to church, then I would say don’t force her. By now, she knows what’s going on. Being an atheist is NOT the end of the world. And honestly, problems in a church group could well be causing her to rethink her beliefs. It’s where I started disliking my church.

Three. A final caution, that I just felt…don’t assume it went well because she didn’t scream. From what you posted, she didn’t say much of anything, yes? If that was me, I’d be still VERY hurt inside, and just wanted to get the HELL out of “THE TALK” as fast as possible. You say whatever you have to get out. I guess I’m just cautioning you not to think that everything will be fine again.

Just my $.02.

Sounds like you did a great job handling things. I’m glad you were able to talk to her with Dad and that she was willing to at least listen. Hopefully, she’ll take your wise advice to heart.

Sheez, DDG, I was in a hurry this AM and didn’t have time to post the brilliant message I’d planned on posting. I came back on now to give you the benefit of my wisdom, and you don’t even need it.

Let me give you a cyber-hug anyway – {{DDG & DDG’s BH}} – parent to parent. The Little Monsters are hard to raise, aren’t they? Good job, both of you, and I hope Mr. Jess and I handle this type of thing as well as you two have when we have to face it in a year or two or three.

BTW, the ‘wisdom’ I referred to above was gonna be all about not keeping this stuff from the Better Half – that he has a right to know, that we Moms can’t accuse Dads of shirking the parenting at the same time that we’re shouldering them out, that you’ll still be married to him after all the Little Monsters are gone and you need to cherish your own relationship and the ‘Mom and kids vs. dumb old Dad’ model is a real team-wrecker… Blah, blah, blah – stuff you obviously already know. Sorry for underestimating you. And, again – good job.

You never cease to impress me, DDG.

I want to echo Jess and say thai I agree that telling your husband post-haste was the right thing to do. Earlier I actually started to type out a thread on this very subject, but it was before you posted and I didn’t want it ot be percieved as an attack on you. When I was a child it never would of occured to me to ask my mother to keep a secret form my father–they were a team. As I hit teen years and saw that this model is realy pretty common, I was amazed. My husband dosen’t have to tell me everything, and I don’t have to tell him everything ,but when it comes to any concern as mutual as children . .

I had an idea: maybe you could offer to let her read this thread? As a sort of backhanded apology for reading what you might should not have? It would be a way of saying “I accendently got a glimpse of a side of you you weren’t ready to share wiht me. I think it is only fair that you see some of my own thoughts, thoughts I never meant to share with you when I wrote them down.” Maybe she needs insight into what makes you tick as desperatly as you need insight into what makes her tick.

Oh, and seeing how the situation looks to many different people might help her find a sense of perspective.

DD Goose, while it sounds as though you, hubby, and Cat got through this pretty well, I think there remains one thing that needs to happen. As a number of posters have said, you need to be sure that Cat has knowledge of, and access to, contraception – esp. access to. An appointment with an adult doc (as opposed to a pediatrition) or gynocologist would probably be a good idea. Or, if there’s a Planned Parenthood office nearby, you might suggest she pay it a visit.

Re religion, she’ll make her own choice. Whatever she thinks in her late teens is not set in stone. She may wind up an atheist or agnostic, she may choose a different relgion from yours, she may stay in yours. I think your best move would be to make sure she knows that your love and acceptance are unconditional; she’ll still have them even if she leaves your religion.

I don’t think I like the idea of telling a young person “you don’t have to go to OUR church, but you MUST go to SOME church”. Freedom to choose among many competing religions is not enough; one must also have the freedom to choose no religion.

While I see where you are coming from, I think the point here is the risk of a child choseing not agnostism or athieism but rather apathy–out of a desire to sleep in. So mandating that a minor child do something useful on Sunday mornings (visit a nursing home?) seems legitimate.

Speaking as a 18 year old girl who can empathise with your daughter, I have to say I think you did the best thing you could.

No offense to you, astro. but when I was reading your post, I was extremely thankful my parents don’t share your philosophy. In my opinion, the best way you can care for your child is to be there when they need you, and to support her decisions. That’s not to say you should let her do whatever she wants, but understanding works so much better than dictating. My mother is always there to listen to me, she knows what goes on in my life and if she had said “no, you cannot see your boyfriend anymore without being supervised”, well, I seriously doubt I would still be living at home and in harmony with them. It shows an extreme lack of trust.