Oh look, a Bible. *sigh* Thanks Mom.

You know, I really don’t mind that my mother has “found religion” in the last few years. I honestly don’t. Hell, I rarely see her as it is, and I can shrug it off with the best of them.

And, I know that when she shares her faith with me (I am not a Christian, as she knows), it is in the spirit of sharing something which she feels enriches her life, and I accept it as such. I do not think the less of her for it, and I respect her beliefs.

The better part of me, upon opening her Christmas present to me on Christmas Eve, feels the same way. She has this belief, and she finds joy in it, and she wants to share it with me.

And yet, as I uncovered the heavy, leatherbound Bible (a modern translation labeled “The Message”), I couldn’t help but get somewhat annoyed by it. My mother has sent my children religious-related books in the past, and she has also given me some as well. However, it always seemed like such gifts were in the spirit of discussion and mutual understanding. For example, a couple years ago she sent me C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity and The Screwtape Letters. I had been meaning to read both books (especially Screwtape), so they were welcome gifts. I didn’t agree with much of what Lewis said in Mere Christianity, but I had to at least admire his attempt, and I was not at all averse to reading it. I kept an open mind, and I found that I learned a few things about the Christian faith, or at least about Lewis’ perspective on it. That was a good thing.

This, though… this Message.

I don’t expect gifts from my mother. I’m bad enough myself about sending them, and I’d be just as happy receiving only a heartfelt card or letter from her as I would a mountain of gifts. This isn’t about materialism or wishing she had gotten me this or that. This is just the first time I’ve honestly felt that my mother is not trying to share something with me… this is the first time I’ve felt that she’s trying to convert me.

A little history… I’ve already said that I’m not a Christian. I have, however, read the Bible (twice, King James translation) and I’ve discussed Christianity pretty openly with many of my Christian friends. One old friend, in particular, had a strong faith but was always willing to question it… almost like a scientist (but not Christian Scientist, if you know what I mean). I admired his ability to question his beliefs, and to have them become the stronger for the questioning, and we had some great discussions. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the faith, and I definitely respect it, even though I very firmly do not share the faith in the Christian God or the Bible. I think my mother knows most of this, if not all of it. We haven’t discussed some of it at length, I admit… one of the side effects of living a few thousand miles away. But she knows that I do not share her faith. She also knows that I have a love of history, particularly Mideaval European history. I have my own beliefs, my own faith, though they are not adequately described by any one belief system.

So why, knowing this, would she send her agnostic son a Bible? Why, out of all the versions she could have chosen, would she have picked a modern (and frankly, dumbed-down) translation? Why, also, would she have left a conspicuous price sticker on it, letting me know that she had spent $80 on it? I saw this almost right away, and my wife has pointed out (probably rightly) that it seems to be a sticking point for me. My mother is normally very conscientious about that sort of thing… I’ve never received a gift from her that had the price left on it, unless the price was actually printed on the item. In this case, the price was fairly noticable, on a sticker, easily removable. Why was it left on? It may have been a mistake… but it doesn’t feel like one. It’s feels like a Message.

I’ll admit this… when I first opened it and saw that it was a Bible, I was kind of mad. In some ways, I still am. This gift means one of two things to me. Either she does not know me as well as I think she does, or she’s ignoring what she knows about me and trying to change what I believe in. I’m not particularly happy about either one, but given my mother, I suspect that it’s the second one.

I hate feeling this way about a gift, or about my mother. I feel like I’m in the wrong for feeling as I do about it. I hate feeling like I have to suspect my mother’s intentions now. I hate feeling like she’s trying to convert me to her beliefs… it’s as though, suddenly, she doesn’t respect my beliefs anymore. And, I feel like I can’t confront her on it without either hurting her feelings or somehow screwing all of this up and making her feel like I hate Christianity in general, just because I don’t believe. I don’t even want to confront her about it, because if I’m wrong (and I could be wrong), then it would only hurt her.

Perhaps it’s chickenshit to avoid the issue this way, but if she asks what I thought of her gift, I will most likely say “Thank you.” and leave it at that. It seems to me that in this case the best way to deal with it is not to confront it directly myself, to give her the benefit of the doubt, to turn the other cheek. It’s what Jesus would do… right? ironic laugh

I hate to say it, but this generous (at least, in a financial sense) gift has somewhat soured the holiday season for me. Fortunately, seeing my daughters opening their gifts yesterday morning (Our eldest was delighted with the boom box and the Avril Levigne CD, and the seven-year-old was positively thrilled with the LOTR book set we got her) more than made up for any ill feelings, so it was more good than bad, as it should be. But still, this one sour note is still getting to me. Next year, I kind of hope my mother just sends a letter.

Send her the collected works of Anton LeVey next year, and let her know you’re thinking about her.

Tell her how you feel. If you say nothing, nothing changes.

laughs Now that would start an interesting discussion. Or it would end all discussion. heh.

Hastur, I know. “Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt,” and all. I just can’t think of a way to open that discussion without risking hurting her, which I do not want to do. I’ve decided that if she asks me directly about it, I will certainly be honest with her, and if she presses me on it I’ll lay out my feelings in detail. But I don’t know where to start that discussion myself. Perhaps that’s avoidance, perhaps it’s wisdom. I dunno.

I’d advise the OP’er to choose his fights wisely. Is his discomfort so great that it merits opening this particular can of worms? Perhaps, perhaps not.

We are powerless over the gifts people choose to give us, and I find it best personally to be as gracious as I can, without trying to get into that person’s head to figure out “what they were thinking, and what it means”.

But I do sympathize, and would probably think the same sort of things, were my mom alive to give me such gifts. She was a bit of a free-thinker though, and was the first to affirm my questions about basic tenets of christianity.

That has got to suck. I’m a Catholic - and a fairly active and involved one at that. But I hate discussing theology with my step-father, who is an AVID Catholic (I avoid using the term “rabid” simply because he doesn’t foam at the mouth).

On the spectrum of faith, I’d imagine he and I are fairly close. You would be on the complete opposite side as your mother. You have an incredible amount of patience and fortitude that I will never have.

Tough choice. I recall one time asking my mom point blank why she always got me turtlenecks I had to return. Didn’t she realize she had never seen me wear a turtleneck, and hadn’t she listened to me on the several occasions when I explained how I did not like them?

Tho honestly, afterwards I felt a little guilty.

And I feel pretty sure my mom never truly believed I was serious when I told her I was not Catholic, and did not believe in God.

I piss people off a lot of the time, because I think that honesty is a pretty valuable gift to share. Of course, in certain instances that needs to be tempered with consideration for others’ feelings.

I would be tempted to remind my mom that although I was happy she found a belief system that gave her comfort, I did not share her faith, and did not want any additional literature on her faith. Moreover, as I intended to donate any such materials I received, I’d really rather she not waste her money.

Probably a better approach than unwrapping the book, and tossing it in the blazing fireplace!

As I type it, I know it sounds harsh. But I prefer being honest. It sounds as tho you are likely going to feel misgivings however you act. Right now you envision simply saying thanks, and are feeling angry. Personally, I’d prefer tactful honesty, followed by guilt.

BTW - we have a big old King James bible on our shelves somewhere, given to us by my mom.

Try to see it from her point of view: she may sincerly believe that you’re headed strait for an eternity of roasting in hell and because she loves you and wishes to spare you that awful fate, she’s trying to gently prod you in the “right” direction. Trust me, having very religious folks in my clan, I can tell you that the prodding could be much, much worse than a few books.

If the subject comes up again, as it definately will, just tell her that you’re giving it some thought, and change the subject. Yes, it will give her some hope, but she’s not going to let up anyway, and to flatly tell her that her views are not welcome would only cause problems. Telling her you’re thinking about what she said will make her feel better, and in some cases, may make her bacxk off. (It’s worked for me.)

Donate the Bible to a local church. They’ll be glad to have it, and maybe you can write it off on your taxes. If she’s the type to ask where it is, tell her you loaned it to a friend undergoing a crisis.

That’s classic.:smiley:

Have a t-shirt specially made that says “fuck christianity”, and leave the price tag on.

I’m all for the idea of sending Anti-Christian literature in retaliation also. Anton Lavey, as mentioned before, would be an excellent choice.

Of course! Shower the people who give you gifts with contempt and scorn! How could I have not seen it? :rolleyes:

Thanks for the support and advice, everyone. It’s funny, I put this in the Pit because I thought it was originally going to include much more vitriol, but it never made it to the page. I guess that’s a good thing. :slight_smile:

Believe me, I am trying to see it from her perspective, and I know all too well that it can be much worse than a few books. I have other family members, you see…

I guess I just feel, from her, that this is a shift. She has always respected my beliefs in the past (at least, I thought so… perhaps that’s naive of me), but if she believes as you say she does, then it feels disrespectful of her. Thinking a little further about SC_Wolf’s suggestion, I wonder how she would react if I did send her Anton LeVey’s books, or a Buddhist text, or the Qu’ran? Would she think it was disrespectful of her faith? She might, and she might be justified in that thought… it is for that reason that I don’t send her anything about other religions. To do so would smack a bit of disrespect, to me.

This is pretty close to what I plan to do, but it feels a little more dishonest than I’m comfortable with. The fact is, I’ve done most of the thinking I’m going to do on the subject of whether or not I’m going to subscribe to Christianity. I’m not. I haven’t closed the possibility completely, but at the same time, I don’t plan to re-read the Bible anytime soon (and if I did it would not be this dumbed-down modern version), and I’m probably not going to give my potential conversion to Christianity any serious thought any time soon. I would feel at least a little uncomfortable lying about this to my mother, since I don’t know what sort of import she places on the issue yet.

You know, I don’t know why I didn’t think of that earlier. I really like the idea of donating it to a local church, and I might even tell her I did so. It’s the kind of thing she’d probably appreciate. Hmmm. Much to think about. Good idea, Lissa (and Dinsdale, who also suggested it)!

Which is worse, the elephant in the room that no one will talk about, or the discussion about the elephant that will bring it to light?

Why wait for something that can be dealt with and perhaps not be as cataclysmic in the direct and loving discussion?

Have you ever sat down and actually READ the bible? It’s filled with threats from a vengefull and jealous God who will torture anybody who disobeys him, for all eternity. It all sends the message (either explicit or implied) “follow my religion or you’ll burn in hell”.

Anton LaVey is tame by comparison.

and a “fuck Christianity” t-shirt would be what again? :rolleyes:

It’s not clear to me that mom was trying to be an ass in sending a bible to an agnostic.

There would be no doubt about whether you were though.

This is the first thing that popped into my head as well. It allows you to be diplomatic and say that it will now go to someone who can truly appreciate it and whose faith is worthy of its fine quality (if you say it, say it with all the humility and sincerity you can muster). That way you are still being noble rather than disrespectful.

I inherited an antique Polyglot Bible. It’s not in any shape to be worth anything, and as an agnostic it really means nothing to me. My SO on the other hand is a devout Christian. She greatly appreciated it as a gift. She loves old books and, as someone raised almost exclusively on the King James version of the Bible, she was thrilled that this one contained some additional Old Testament texts and the books of the Apocryphal.

Though the book has been in my family for several generations, I’m afraid the buck stops here. I’ll never have kids of my own, and it will never mean much to me, I was actually quite happy to pass it along to someone who really does appreciate its age and contents.

See, now that would have actually been a pretty good gift for me. I love old books too (another thing my Mom knows about me; I worked in a used bookstore for five years while I was in college, after all). That sort of thing would at least look good on a shelf, and would pique my interest.

I’m still looking at “The Message” and trying to figure out why that one in particular. Did she think I’d be impressed by the price? Do I seem shallow to her?

sigh

Hastur’s probably right. I may have to talk to her about this after all. After I donate the Message to the Church of Satan.

Kidding! :slight_smile:

Big heavy $70 hardcover Bible? Perfect thing for crushing those sacrificial kittens.:wink:

Anyone else notice that Avalonian’s current post count is 666?

Ack! And it happened on my “Church of Satan” post! And it wasn’t even intentional!

Weird.

667, now. :wink: