Once Upon A Time, men made the money and women spent it. The idea of marriage was for the woman to find a man who could provide 100% of her financial needs.
A man asked a woman out, he paid for it. He was the one with the money, she wasn’t.
That was Long Ago. It’s rare for a woman to graduate from school now (any level) and expect to enter the spouse market instead of the job market. Women earn almost as much as men in almost any field, and very few fields are closed to either sex. It’s pretty close to equal now.
So why shouldn’t dates share expenses roughly equally as well?
Not to play Ann Landers here, but I’d think that a $500 first date puts excessive pressure on a woman. Forget about the sex angle, which is there no matter how polite you are, it just puts things at a very uneven level. That would be a special treat after the boundaries of the relationship are set, but not before.
It seems that the current dating mode is a very low stress date for dinner or coffee to start with. I can just imagine how my daughters would have reacted to a similar invitation. Not very well. One of them had someone fairly rich interested in her, unfortunately she was not interested in him.
I know your intentions are honorable, but they may not come across that way.
Just saying as someone totally clueless but who learned what was going on from watching my girls grow up.
I learned to accept that, as an nearly-always-employed <laid off atm> NON-professional woman that most of the guys I dated made more money than I did. I do not have fancy tastes, but if a date wanted to go somewhere nice, he’d better pay for it because I probably won’t be able to. First date, that’s great. LTR, also great, because at some point you both recognize that’s what’s going to need to happen to enjoy certain things. But I’ve always had great ideas for dates that were within my range, and it was usually a good indicator that it wasn’t going to work out if the guy really didn’t want to not be in control. Or just had expensive tastes that were never going to make me happy on a long-term basis. Or he couldn’t understand the joys of just staying home and snuggling and watching a movie at home instead of paying 40 bucks to see the latest one.
One guy, for our first ‘date’ (read: excuse to see him outside work and MAKE a date) I won two tickets for an MMA match and invited him, since his friends were going too; he went, and we were together for the next three years, splitting things more or less evenly, with him picking up the heavy end if needed.
Another guy, first date was a simple bar dinner; he would not let me pay, though I kept trying to slip him a ten dollar bill to help when he wasn’t looking. It became a game for the rest of the evening; as he left in his pickup, I ran after him and threw the ten in the back. He actually got a little upset, and that’s when I realized “Hey, you’re in the South, dumbass; let him pay or he’s going to think you’re insulting him!”. We were together for a year or so; pretty sure I snuck a few bills out from under him during that time.
To add, since I never get it right the first time: I’m 45, with about 30 years of dating experience across most of the US under my belt. I would never think it’s weird for a guy to pay for the first date, but I would be surprised to find the guy expects me to pay for his. So…I guess I’m sexist? Times ARE changing, surely, but I don’t think they’re changing all that fast.
You are correct but I am screening for that behavior too. This certainly isn’t a desperation play on my part. They have to step up. Proper etiquette or lack thereof is only something you can learn about first-hand once you give them the chance. The only thing I have been disappointed with is that most of them have failed that one miserably so I do detect a bad trend at least for females in the Boston area even if they are well-educated.
One however did a great job. It was obvious from the first few minutes that we weren’t a good romantic match but we are a good friend match. We had a great time and have kept up with each other. She is very nice Jewish lady from an affluent family and I know it can be done regardless of different backgrounds or interests. Basic manners don’t cost anyone anything.
:rolleyes:IMHO I expect to pay for the first date, I am asking for a date ie. " I want you to go and do this with me" of course I expect to pay. If she wants to pay for anything I generally see this as a good sign, unless of course she is gone five minutes later.
Here in Denmark, that change happened 40ish years ago. When it comes to dealing with a bill in a restaurant, the two genders meet on equal terms, exactly as they do in other contexts. Gender inequality is indeed outdated.
Shagnasty, I think you are making a mistake spending so much on the first date. When I was dating between marriages I made decent money but discovered not to spend too much on the first date…and the threshhold of ‘too much’ can be surprisingly low. One of my favorite ‘dinner’ ideas for a first date was Tepinyaki (sp?) - Japanese place where the chef cooks in front of you and knives are in the air ) The bill for 2 people including drinks would be around $100…and THAT even made many uncomfortable.
Agreed. If someone I met offered that as a first date idea, I’d probably think that we’re basically living on two different planets in terms of values, worldview, and lifestyle, and would just turn him down. It pretty much looks like you’re trying to buy her, or otherwise impress her with how much money you can throw around. It comes across as extremely shallow, and I’d expect someone like that to be basically looking for a trophy wife.
If that’s not your intent, I’d suggest sticking to coffee dates until you’re actually in a committed relationship with someone. I suspect a lot of women don’t call you back because you’ve made things really, really awkward for them, and they have no idea how to handle it, so they just… don’t. Remember women are socialized to be “nice” (which is a frakking difficult thing to overcome), so being put on the spot by first agreeing to a date, and then you spring the $500 price tag on them – well, it wouldn’t be “nice” to turn you down after they’d already accepted, would it? So they go along quietly, feel like crap about it, and run to avoid the awkwardness. You’re probably chasing away women you’d get along fine with otherwise.
Honestly I’m surprised that you haven’t figured this out on your own. Any first date that goes into triple digits is too damn much. I don’t know you well enough to be beholden to you like that. If the average person couldn’t afford to go dutch on the cost, it’s too much, and puts too much pressure on.
I also note that the one woman who passed your “test” came from money, herself – IOW, she could afford to go dutch on a $500 date. I imagine that was the reason she didn’t run – there was no undue pressure on her, she could afford anything she might “owe” you.
Most people don’t throw around that kind of money. At the very least, it demonstrates a potential conflict zone for a future relationship – are your lifestyles going to be compatible, in terms of how much you got and how much you spend? Are your values compatible?
The rule of thumb for me is that I assume I’m going to pay. Then again, most of the way most of the things work out is fairly mutual, where one of us initially says we should do something and we work out the details together or I end up setting the details.
When the bill comes, it’s actually an interesting point to see whether she just lets me pay and says nothing, let’s me pay and thanks me, or offers to split. And in many cases when she does just thank me, she’d then later insist on paying for the follow up activity, if there was one. FTR, I’ve never had a second date after she didn’t even say anything at all, presumably mutual in most cases. And certainly after the first couple of dates or so, things will generally be split pretty evenly.
Either way, I think the idea that the guy always pays for everything is pretty much dead. It’s sort of left over from a time when either the woman didn’t work or generally made considerably less money and I think a lot of men and women today see it as putting themselves on unequal ground. Certainly if there’s real money considerations, like one really is on a very thin budget and the other isn’t, that’s a special situation. At least for me, it’s not the money, it’s about being equals, it’s not just me courting her and she’s some object that can be won over, but it’s a two-way interaction.
I am old. I kid you not. Just an hour ago, I saw someone with buds in their ears (back in my day, we had headphones). I ask, what ya listening too. She gives me the buds and I listen.
I swear to all that is holy, the artist sounded just like my daughter whining at the dinner table that she had to eat her brussel sprouts.
When did whining become good music? Are you kidding me!?!?! This is the stuff people are buying today?!?!?!
So what if I lean across the table and say in a low voice with a wink and a grin, “This is just money. When I want your pants I’ll buy them with my heart.”
Will you let me just make the check go away? Because that’s the only thing that has ever been on my mind when I’ve ninja’d a dinnerbill. I ninja date bills, and I ninja bar tabs, I ninja the folks behind me at the Starbucks drive-through. It’s just something I like to do.
That can be fun, I know. But you’re going to have to let the person know you well enough for them to know that’s how you are, before you can expect not to make people uncomfortable. So if you’re going to ninja first dates, make them relatively cheap first dates.
Unless, of course, you ARE looking for someone who likes being wined and dined and has no problem with it; there are lots of people out there like that, and they are not all gold-diggers. But you could spend quite a bit of money and time before you discover what they’re really after.
He actually got a little upset, and that’s when I realized “Hey, you’re in the South, dumbass; let him pay or he’s going to think you’re insulting him!”. We were together for a year or so; pretty sure I snuck a few bills out from under him during that time.
) The bill for 2 people including drinks would be around $100…and THAT even made many uncomfortable.
That can be fun, I know. But you’re going to have to let the person know you well enough for them to know that’s how you are, before you can expect not to make people uncomfortable. 
So if you’re going to ninja first dates, make them relatively cheap first dates.