I am aware of that. The person I was responding to seemed to think that maybe it would make people listen, which is pretty weird.
Sure. Pretty easy to ignore such a person, rather than to try to “one up” them with some insulting catchphrase. If it were someone I encountered regularly - in my family or social circle - I’d hope I could come up with a better way of dealing with them than thinking I were simultaneously insulting them and expressing my superiority.
Also, tho I do not always succeed, I like to think there is SOMETHING I can learn - even from idiots. Maybe an understanding of how someone might develop such views, an enhanced commitment that I not become like them…
I mean, I suppose in a sense it could be seen as a hopeful way to trigger self-awareness, in a “oh, wait, I dismiss millenials’ opinions out of hand all the time ; in fact my dismissing what that person was saying is what led to their saying “OK Boomer” back at me and now that I’m dismissed out of hand I find that really irritating, maybe I should stop doing that ?”.
But that’s a really generous, almost naive take on it. Good if it does happen obviously, but much like any giving anyone a dose of their own medicine, it’s hardly the expected result IMO (and, judging by the article linked upthread or many responses in this thread… yeah, no, they’re still not *getting *it). The expected result is catharsis.
“Okay, Boomer,” like “DNFTT” and “NOT ALL MEN, OKAY?” are less about trying to get through to the clothhead it’s directed towards and more about letting others around you know that’s a place where all energy goes to die and if you’re not interested in wasting effort on a hopeless cause then disengage and go elsewhere if you want productive discourse. I mean, you can spend endless energy on a hopeless cause or you can direct a lesser amount of energy into a cause where it will actually accomplish something–nobody’s saying you’re not allowed to waste your own time but a kind person will let you know just in case you’re unaware you’re tilting at a hopeless windmill.
Agreed. At the point where you’re dismissing someone so thoroughly, there’s zero expectation that they’ll start listening to you.
Whether folks are choosing that dismissal appropriately? My opinion neither stays consistent across all cases nor matters.
Well, sure. Absolute, sweeping value statements are more of a boomer thing anyway :p.
(yes, I am aware. That is, in fact, the joke.)
I see, oh sure. Increased life expectancy is not without its own challenges and what lovely challenges to have. Call me a psychopathic monster if you like but increasing the opportunity to live longer, healthier lives seems to be a good thing.
imposing on poor people what was considered “best” for them was a classic imperial mindset.
You know how I said that democracy had increased since 1945? look at the graph in 1945, then look at the most recent figure. Which figure is higher? Stop me if I get too technical.
I’ll be sure to make a note of this, and if I ever make the point that democracy is perfectly executed everywhere I’ll be sure to bear it in mind.
Are you comparing the imperfect democracy in those countries now with the military dictatorshipspreviously in place? Or are you just saying that the democratically elected leaders in those countries right now are sub-optimal compared to previously democratically elected leaders?
Is “Fuck off, punk” an appropriate response to “Okay, boomer” ??
Granted, I’m just one Gen-X man, but the only time I see “Ok, Boomer” is self-congratulatory tweets and memes from Millennials about how mad it made everyone while I see zero significant outrage from from older people. By “significant”, I mean actual people I see or interact with out in the world giving a fuck rather than “Here’s a random weirdo out of the 500 bajillion people on Facebook who said a thing!”
I mean, you had a conservative radio host compare it to the “n-word” but hyperbolic outrage about liberal kids is pretty much the conservative radio host mission statement. And, today, I saw a Tweet circulated that people are saying “OMG old people are SO MAD that they’re threatening to sue!” but, reading the email in question, it’s just some lawyer fishing to have a story written about him.
I guess it’s a nice ego boost for those high-fiving themselves over how they totally wrecked rich old people in between defaulting on their student loans and not affording a house.
Just longer. Healthier would require nursing and other care. Which they’ll get where?
You can, of course, cite where I’ve said anything about “imposing”…?
Aah, I see.
You’re naive enough to equate “number of democracies” with “democracy”
Let’s just say I disagree.
But this is the point you make when you say “democracy” is increasing. If more and more democratic governments are, in fact, bad at democracy, then it’s disingenuous to claim “democracy” is increasing. It is not.
I’m just comparing them to their immediate predecessors. Since that’s all that’s relevant to the Millennials (remember them?) who are seeing a decrease in democracy now.
Possibly, also, Millenials are capable of seeing a curve and realising it could as easily be sigmoidal as exponential.
Also, possibly, Millenials aren’t interested in softballing shitty mass-murdering near-autocracies like the Duterte government (led by an actual admitted murderer) as merely “sub-optimal”.
Well, given that the nationwide student debt crisis and housing affordability crisis are almost entirely due to the acts and choices of the older generations rather than those of the young people currently coping with them, I guess we’re kind of lucky that the millennials are willing to settle for “wrecking” the rich old people with sarcastic clapbacks rather than with torches and pitchforks.
I’m not for keeping people alive at all costs. Quality of life matters (another advancement since the war) and I’d also be in favour of giving people choice of when and how they die. I’d not be in favour of imposing it, nor would I be in favour of throttling the research into, or provision of, end-of-life treatments just because the increased lifespan will also increase demand for nursing care.
Medical advancements since the war have been nothing short of miraculous. The upshot of that is that, globally, lifespans have increased and a lot of that is due to infant mortality decreasing, I would be very suspicious of anyone who complained about that because it’d risk the jobs of child grave-diggers. Let’s reap the benefits and adjust to the demographic and societal demands.
no, you didn’t use that word but you certainly were dismissive when imagining the things that you have potentially being something that the poor of the world might aspire to.
I do equate increased numbers of democratic nations with increased democracy overall, yes.
Do you think the world is a less democratic place now overall than immediately after WW2?
You are smart enough to know better than this. If the number of democratic nations increases greatly (which it has since the war), the number of people in good democratic systems increases and the number under bad democratic systems also increases, it is pretty much guaranteed.
In a reference back to the previous point we are likely to see an increase in the incidence of cancers and heart disease amongst developing nations…care to guess why? It is because the opportunity for such age-based diseases will increased with an aging population. Likewise you will only get the opportunity for increased problematic demoracies by increasing the number of democracies.
And yet all along…clearly stated…my point is that the world is more democratic now overall than immediately post war. If you are wanting to argue that it doesn’t hold for certain limited situations in certain places then OK, but you are arguing aginst a claim I never made. It also means that I’d be justified in pointing to countries and areas of lowered pollution and increased animal conservation over the recent years and claim " there is no environmental problem".
So they are clever enough to interpet and contemplate such a curve but at the same time unable to read off and compare values along it? And who suggested it would be exponential? you are pretty guaranteed a sigmoidal curve with wobbles in rise and also when it straightens off.
So don’t. Call them out for what they are. You don’t seem to credit the millienials with much intelligence I must say. I reckon they are well able to comprehend the global increase in democracy overall since the war and still be able to seperate that from “here are some places where it is not working” and where we need to work harder. The reason those places aren’t working well is because people are trying to usurp democracy and that will sometimes happen, it is a feature not a bug. Absent democracy (even sub-optimal) Those countries would be in exactly the same or an even worse state of autocracy, dictatorship, theocracy etc. Democracy is a bullwark against those things not a guarantee, never has been.
“the price of liberty is eternal vigilence”, not an uncommon phrase and something that the millenials seem to be adhering to.
Technically yes, I suppose. But your question misses the salient point, which is that boomers have been telling gen Xers, millenials and zoomers alike to fuck off over and over for the last 40 years or so.
Yes, yes, I know, #NotAllBoomers, attaboy. Still, that clip posted upthread of the Kiwi MP just breaks my fucking brains. She’s evidently smart, she’s making an important and cogent point on a serious topic in about the most formal setting there is or should be… and still some smug asshole is interrupting her to make light of her age ?! What the genuine fuck. How absolutely dare he, unironically.
I know, right ? I keep tellin’ 'em, guillotines and gibbets but they’re all like “OK, Jacobin”. It’s maddening.
Except said arseholes can do immense damage while in power e.g. Bolsonaro letting people torch the Amazon. Or move to consolidate their power and make it more difficult to boot them out e.g. Erdogan.
That’s temporary - infant mortality generally is already low, and all the continued gains will be at the other end eventually.
Which is what Millenials are seeing - not only are the Boomers fucking everything up now, but they’re also not having the decency to die off like they’re supposed to. So they’ll continue fucking things up for years to come.
Enough said.
I wasn’t dismissive, by the way - like I said, I’m perfectly aware of why they want what they want. It’s hardly an informed choice, it’s a Hobson’s choice.
That’s hopelessly naive.
No. But that’s not the issue for Millennials, is it?
Not at all. If many of the new democracies added are, in fact, shitty democracies (which, quite frankly, many are) AND some of the previously OK democracies take a turn to the bad (which, again, is completely the case) then no, it is not guaranteed at all.
…and the shitty lifestyle changes I already covered…
Are you serious? It’s obvious you can also get the same increase just by previously good democracies going bad. Which definitely happens.
And my point is that that’s nice, but doesn’t concern Millennials the way current trends do.
Sure.
Good luck with that, though…the trend is definitely the other way.
No, they’re clever enough to know that past performance is no indicator of future developments.
You say this like the rise of an anti-democratic trend couldn’t reverse the current trend.
I have. You’re the one who’s used that phrasing.
I seem to be crediting them with more than you do - enough that I think the things they seem to consider really important matter most.
Can’t make a democracy omelette without murdering some political opponents, kind of thing? Maybe Millennials don’t agree that that should be the price paid.
False dichotomy - the desired alternative to shitty democracies is better democracy, not no democracy. So when Millennials advocate for that, the proper response is “Yes, how can we help” not “Well, actually, this graph says there’s more democracy than ever”
That’s something we can agree on.
Asking this in all innocence: why is the insult targeting a generation? The complaints seem to be about Republicans.
I kept waiting for young people to get really angry at what this bloated aging population-clog has done to them and to the planet. If a dismissive meme and some gigantic marches and sit-ins (Occupy) is all they can come up with I’m not impressed quite yet. They need to do more.
No argument there; I have a kid in college. Which is why it feels kind of pathetic to see people getting all excited about how they got the Boomers with this one.
Guess who old people are more likely to vote for?