yeah, this. it’s like the guy I ran into on a car site (a Boomer, natch) who was dismissive of anyone who complained of having difficulty finding work. His response was nonsense like “my grandfather managed to make a living by collecting old junk and reselling it in 1913.”
facepalm
In this instance I meant “we” as in gen X. I was born somewhere in the swing years, so I get to rep for either team as context, expedience or fancy dictates. It’s p. great :p.
It feels weird to me, being born in 1964, to be lumped in with people born in 1946. I don’t see what we have in common.
Kennedy was assassinated before I was born.
The Vietnam war is a few dim childhood memories I’m not sure are real.
Ditto the Civil Rights movement and the Apollo program.
I do have a memory of Nixon’s resignation speech, but other than that ditto for Watergate.
I missed the Beatles, and by the time I started getting into music most of the classic bands and musicians that still existed were past their prime. Some were dead.
I missed the whole hippie scene. Punk and New Wave were more culturally relevant to me. I listened to a lot of 80’s pop in college, because it was the eighties.
Same with movies, though I definitely remember seeing Star Wars.
I think people born between 1960-68 are really their own generation, too young to be boomer, too old to be Gen-X.
I’ve called the people formerly known as “generation Jones” the “punk generation” for this reason, since neither the Boomers nor X’ers were the right age to grow up with the first wave of widespread punk.
Yeah, I think it’s fine to use as clapback to this sort of generational bigotry, because it’s saying, “see how shitty generational bigotry is?”
But when it’s not used as a clapback, that’s when it sucks.
(I just read an interesting essay on why it’s appropriate. Everything was good until the last line, which said, basically, “Disclaimer: any response to this that’s an academic argument or a quibble over trivialities will be met with ‘okay boomer.’” I thought the whole thing demonstrated both when it could be used well and when it was a dumbass response.)
Linkypoo ? Or was that like a term paper or the like ?
That’s interesting for me to hear, because the complaints I hear about millennials in my little corner of the world are completely different than what you talked about here.
For example, criticisms that routine work that everyone in my office does has been viewed with contempt by younger workers; and then an expectation they deserve to take the lead on complex projects usually assigned to people with 20 years of experience rather than 1. A deep cluelessness with regard to handling personal matters, like a worker who took Uber to and from work everyday instead of taking the Metro (maybe like $40/day vs $7/day) and couldn’t figure out why she could barely make ends meet. An assumption that others will take up their slack in the office if they don’t come in now and then because things are sooooo haaaard.
Now, I’m not denying that you hear other criticisms. But the criticisms of millennial workers I hear are more like those above.
And by the way, I don’t really buy into those criticisms of millennials. I think criticisms of that type are generally applicable to young people in any time and place, in that the vigor of youth can overlap with an overestimation of one’s place in the world. And I think the universe has a way of brutally correcting that in time.
Youngs versus olds probably predates civilization.
… and ? Is it contemptible work ? Make-work ? Pointless paper pushing or report writing or meetings that do nothing but waste everyone’s time ? Stuff that could be handled much better using different methods or even automation ; or stuff that would warrant hiring someone else to do exclusively because it’s legit wasteful to hire a PhD and ask them to do rote data entry ? Is it work that wasn’t specified they’d have to handle in their contract, in which case why would you feel they *have *to do it and why wouldn’t they bitch about the bait-and-switch ? Is it stuff that would help their career or personal tasks in any way, which if not why wouldn’t they bitch about having to do it ?
Saying “routine work” is meaningless ; and “we’ve all done it” is also meaningless - in many cases it’s even colossally unhelpful, the whole “well I had it shitty so why should the next guys not have it as shitty ?!” attitude that’s all too common. Cf Jragon’s trolley tweet.
Are they up to that task ? If they are, what does seniority matter ? Especially considering they know they won’t be there in 2 years, much less 20 ?
Maybe they’re agoraphobic ? Maybe they’ve had a Really Bad Experience in the subway that they’re in no hurry to repeat or otherwise live in a very sketch neighbourhood because that’s all many of us can afford ? Maybe they’re stressing out at the idea of ever being late and looking like one of those lazy, slacking, tardy millenials ? Maybe they’re not from The City, don’t really know their way around subways and are afraid of getting utterly lost ?
The point is : why would you assume it’s because they’re stupid ? Have you thought to ask why they were taking an Uber every day ?
Guilty as charged. But in my experience, that’s because millenials tend to also be understanding of *other *co-workers sometimes dealing with a shitty day, a non-debilitating but still thoroughly unpleasant illness or going through rough patches ; and they’re typically more than OK with picking up the slack for someone else’s skipping work - so long as they’re not taking advantage or something. We’re all living our shittiest lives, which tends to make us more understanding or empathetic (not every last one obviously - but it’s deffo a Thing). We don’t think it’s a flaw. But since that’s how we are, it’s also easy for us to assume that’s how other people are as well and we don’t really “grok” your perennial irritation at the whole thing.
Furthermore, we generally don’t really see the point of coming to work and doing a shit job all day because we’re a cunt hair away from a screaming blubbering nervous breakdown. It’s not in our personal interest, it’s not in the job’s interest, it’s not in our co-workers’ interest. What’s the point ? And why would you take pride or feel “tough” about feeling shitty, doing shitty work, being shitty to those around you because it’s one of Those days but you felt compelled to show up at work anyway ? Doesn’t strike me as particularly healthy.
That’s a xennial response that would seem to deliver more catharsis than the condescending pith at issue. But that can always be countered with, “You’re missing the point.”
Who can get the most meta?
In this case, it was making Excel tables based on a template. These Excel tables contain the critics output of every worker on this job. Expecting someone else to make the tables is basically equivalent to a plumber showing up at your house and expecting you to provide all his tools.
Because acquiring the knowledge of applicable laws and regulations in this case is something that typically takes about 5-10 years of experience before one can effectively navigate them. And since most of the people I work with have been in their positions from 5-25 years, if this person isn’t going to be there in 2 years it is not because the organization abuses them in the way that some companies do. There’s very much the ethos of wanting to train people to do the job and keep them for a long time, because the skills aren’t easily replaceable.
Because they went to a senior manager and literally asked for his help in planning a monthly budget because she could not figure out why they were too poor to go get a drink after work with their similarly paid colleagues.
In this case, a young person passed off a bunch of work to a single mother who had a shitload more day-to-day responsibilities at home and work with basically no warning. Now, this isn’t a problem unique to young people. A friend of mine has a coworker in her 40s who does the same thing and everyone wants that person fired.
Well, there’s a couple options at play here. There may be a medical condition at play, in which case it isn’t the role of coworkers to take on managing those issues. Or maybe the work is shitty, which is something that surely doesn’t apply to my workplace as people stay a long time and there’s a long list of people wanting to join; but sure I wouldn’t blame people for hating their job working at an abusive environment like an Amazon fulfillment center (ha) or something. Another option is that some people are just assholes who spread discontent like a virus. (Which isn’t unique to any age group.)
But step back here for a second — I posted some common complaints I hear about young people and I specifically said they are probably issues that aren’t unique to millennials, but young people at any given point in recent history.
And then you post a screed basically saying I’m full of shit and every example of poor professional behavior I used was actually justifiable but I’m too dumb to recognize it.
Is this how you comport yourself in general? By telling people you don’t know that they are wrong on issues that you have no understanding of?
Ok, Boomer.
What do liberals call it? Ageism?
Did I tell you you were wrong ? I feel like mostly I’ve asked open questions that, believe you me, would in many cases have drawn big ol’ blanks or defensive behaviour. In many cases those generic complaints of yours could/would have been attributable to various strains of miscommunications, prejudice, mistaken assumptions and so on. How am I to know which is which without, y’know, asking ? E.g. companies like yours that actually seek to retain people are not the norm these days ; least not in the various fields I’ve worked in.
ETA : like, all of the options/questions I’ve asked were drawn from experience, either mine own or those of friends.
I second that. Too much in the way of cultural differences between us and the immediate post-war/1950s born for the big-tent generalizations to be taken seriously. I don’t give a damn what some grand/high/mystic pigeonholing demographer thinks.
Writing 200 words on how someone who is asserted to have poor financial planning skills actually probably has good reasons for what’s she’s doing is attempting to start an argument.
Do you even lift, bro?
Yer wot ? 
“I belong to the blank generation…”
Of course, Richard Hell is much older, born in 1949 or something.
I’m in that same year range and I’m definitely too young to be a boomer, and I feel like an older Gen-Xer. I identify more with Gen-Xers than anything else, what with my growing up with New Wave and all.
I don’t know why no one throws any shade our way.
Boomers must be white, right? And from middle class or above. Poorer, non-white folks around my age can’t be blamed for ruining today’s youth, right? Sure, there’s an age component. “It’s always the old who lead us to the wars / Always the young who fall,” sang Phil Ochs. No, don’t trust anyone over 30 till you’re over 30 yourself. But don’t trust young greedheads either, of any color or accent. Count your fingers after shaking hands.
The whole “written by a pedophile” thing has kind of put me off this song in the ordinary way, but I can’t help but be kind of inspired…
Trump’s in charge, the ice is melting, just can’t buy a house
All Millenials have good cause to grouse
Crying in their Kombucha they grind their teeth and say
“Boomers are in charge and just won’t go away”
Cis white Boomers
Straight white Boomers
Fucking up the world though we’ve got just one
Cis white Boomers
White male Boomers
In the mil-le-ni-um!
*
For entertainment purposes only. No reflection intended on anyone’s year of birth, race, gender or sexual identification. If the glove don’t fit, don’t give a shit