NO!
Sorry to yell but absolutely no way should you share one attorney.
I speak from personal horrible experience. Yes mediation is valuable. BUT GET YOUR OWN ATTORNEY.
I lost EVERYTHING in our divorce. And I do mean everything.
Go to mediation and then have YOUR attorney review the agreement. S/he will watch out for you in a way you won’t be able to.
Get two attorneys. Mediation is nice, but don’t let your concillatory want to get out attitude let her take you to the cleaners (which she may). I don’t know California divorce law, but she will need to support your son if she has full (or most) custody, which means you will be paying her.
My mother in law just wanted out. And she wanted to be nice. The upshot…she barely got child support, she signed away her rights to his pension (and he never let her work, so it isn’t like she had her own savings), she ended up declaring bankruptcy - while he kept a 30 ft sailboat and an airplane. And no money for college for either of the kids.
They’ve been divorced more than 20 years and she will never financially recover.
I’ve seen it work the other way as well, in fact, it worked the other way for me. My ex just wanted out, didn’t want to fight anything, didn’t even show up in court, so I got everything I asked for - support for four years (even though I made more money - we had a mortgage and car loan I thought he should help with), the house, the car. (No kids involved, but I kept his cat - a cat I didn’t even like). I was very reasonable under the circumstances - his attitude could have let me really do a number on him. (BTW, I didn’t need the support for the whole four years. He stopped paying it when I got married again, although there was no provision for that, and I let him off the hook for it - it really was just there to cover the car loan we’d taken out a month before he found his soulmate while married to me. I was a bitch about the whole thing, but not a complete bitch).
You have a child and significant assets, plus significant income potential. Make sure your interests are looked after.
Get your own attorney. Make a copy of every single scrap of any financial docmant you can get your hands on NOW! tax returns, pay statements, investment portfolios, even wills, credit cards statements, bank statements everything.
Try to work out as much amicably, and maturely as you can because the big loser is going to be your son. remember that above all else no matter how mad you get at each other you may have to lose one here and there and bite you tongue for his sake. It is going to be in everyone’s best interest to maintain respect for each other.
Check your state laws. Generally Child support is spelled out pretty cut and dry. In Texas it is 25% of your income for one child that you will pay in child support and considering how little she works I’m guessing you will pay alimony as well. You will also lose 1/2 of all of your assets. Is California a community property state? That makes a difference in how assets are divided as well.
BTW - I got divorced a year ago and my attorney fees were roughly about $7,000. 3 kids, a house, combined assests in the neighborhood of 300K but a pretty amicable attitude…it doesn’t have to be a catfight.
Not all lawyers are thieving scum. My divorce only cost me $1125, and I had to settle out custody and split finances.
I think the important thing is not to act impulsively. My ex husband tore my heart out and stomped it all over the ground, but I’m so glad I was able to see into the future and know that I wouldn’t always feel so angry at him, and made some sensible decisions. My ex, son and I came through the divorce pretty OK, and now are able to have a great working relationship. It takes a while, I think…it took us four years before I didn’t have to grit my teeth every time I talked to my ex. Its worth it. You’ll do it too.
And as for your son…I’m not sure how old he is. My son was two when I got divorced. Now he’s eight, and when he asks why I’m not married to his dad, I tell him that we made each other so unhappy when we were with each other, and now we’re able to be much happier living seperately.
Good luck, and I’m so sorry you have to deal with this mess:(
squeegee , I’m so sorry for what you and your family are going through right now. Even though he’s only four, I’m sure your son is feeling the tension of what is happening. Make sure you give him all the love and support he needs during this time.
When my ex and I decided we had exhausted every other option and there was no other way, we went to a bookstore & got the do-it-yourself book. Our circumstances were quite different from yours moneywise, and the book did stress that if there was significant property division (there wasn’t with us) the best thing to do was to get lawyers, but to come to an agreement before hand about who gets what and child visitation.
Do remember that there is a difference between legal and physical custody in the state of California. If your wife is not willing to share physical custody, see if she is willing to at least share legal custody. This gives you a say in where the child goes to school, a right to medical decisions, etc.
Can I please also offer a word of advice about the future? Whomever you end up with (and yes, you will heal, and there will eventually be someone else), please PLEASE make sure she understands that your child is important to you and will always be a big part of your life. My children are having serious issues right now, because the woman their father married doesn’t want to acknowledge that he had a life before he met her. As a result, the work we did together to make sure the kids would be as well adjusted as possible after our divorce is going out the window.
I can’t add any advice that hasn’t already been given, so I won’t try. Just know that one day, maybe not tomorrow and probably not the day after tomorrow, you’ll realize that all of THAT is behind you and you made it through to the other side. It took an incredible amount of work and patience, but it worked out for the best.
My ex-wife and I get along much better as friends than we did as spouses, and our daughter now has two families that love her like no tomorrow. No acrimony, not name calling. I hope yours goes as well.
squeegee–this website:
http://www.caldivorceguide.com/cgi-win/cgi_free.exe?div
may give you some answers (although I’m not sure how well written it is). Any number of law firms will have websites with “free” information like this, so you may be able to find something similar that is better written.
What I remember from law school/bar exams–it is possible to do a divorce on your own, but property division and child custody can be tricky. Child support in California is based on a formula, although you can certainly pay more than what is required under that formula (and it can be modified to pay less is your earning capicity changes). There is such a thing as spousal support (think alimony), but it is intended to be a transitional payment–for example, while your spouse goes to school to increase his or her earning capacity–and not something that you will pay forever. I’m not sure if spousal support is mandated under California law, or if you can acheive that same result by dividing the assets in a way that favors her. If you and your wife can discuss it, work out together what you think is fair (division of assets, spousal support, custody, payment of current bills, etc) and then each take that to your separate attorneys. You can cut down you attorney bills by having a general agreement like this already in place. The attorney will help you determine if anything is off kilter, and make sure you are within California law.
Attorneys must tell you their fee schedule prior to doing any work for you (although they may charge an initial consultation fee), and you should be asked to pay a fee agreement–make sure you understand what is required upfront and what that will be used for. Your wife may qualify for legal help via a law clinic or legal aid. You can give her the money to pay for her own attorney, but it must be with no conditions–you can’t tell her what attorney to go to.
The point about legal custody and physical custody is a good one. Get joint custody–that keeps all your parental rights intact. If you don’t think it is in the best interest of your child to have him shuttle between households, no problem–work out a visitation schedule that gives you adequate time with him. Again, if you’ve worked out that your son will be with you on Christmas Eve and Mom on Christmas Day and will spend two weeks during the summer vacation with his paternal grandparents etc., before you go to the attorneys, it will save time and therefore money.
Finally, good luck to you as you go through this often painful process. Let your love and concern for your son be the touchstone of all the decisions you make, be generous, and expect the best from everyone involved.
Not true for all people. My ex and I remain on friendly terms. We retained the majority of our assets. We were divorced in about 6 months and settled the majority of the issues including, custody, child support, visitation, and division of property without the aid of our lawyers although we both retained sperate counsel. Our comboined cost for legal representation was 7K. Keep your head together, keep focused on y our children, try and respect each other, leave revenge out of the picture try and use some common sense. Just because you are disolving your marriage you are going to have to deal with this person for a long long time - don’t sour the whole darned well!
I hope no one mentione this previously. If they did, I apologize.
**Do not move out of the house without a signed agreement. Get your lawyer to approve it. Leaving the house (with a child) constitutes abandonment. A slick lawyer can twist easily twist that in court.
**The type of Lawyer you get depends on how you want to arrange the divorce. If it is amicable and everyone agrees, the fees are usually small and reasonable, the lawyer acts like a mediator (for your side) and kind of an escrow. If there are points of contention, get a lawyer that knows how to fight in divorce court. These guys are mean and expensive, but they get the job done.
You cannot imagine how much I second this. It had a big impact on the quality of life my sister and I had throughout our childhood, and how much it still impacts both of us to this day, particularly my sister.
Stepmother #1: she and her kids came first, no matter what. Dad moved into her house when they got married, and my sister and I were second-class citizens. We were not included in planning joint family activities (we were 10 and 12 when they married), and we had no say in anything that happened to us while we were visiting. It was so ridiculous how much she ran the show. An example: she was a smoker, and I was a (then undiagnosed) asthmatic. She used to light up at the dinner table while others were still eating, and so predictably I would start hacking my lungs up. I’d ask to leave the table, and she would say yes, but I couldn’t take my dinner with me. Dad? He said nothing. Luckily, they only stayed married a couple of years.
Stepmother #2 (the current one): started off with a good relationship with us, until it became apparent that a chunk of the family budget was likely to be used to send us to college. Many nasty letters to me and my mother ensued, obviously written by her and not my dad (she’s a litigation attorney, and has a very distinctive writing style, especially when it comes to financial/contractual matters). Two lawsuits later, including one for which I was subpoenaed to testify, the judge decided that Dad was liable for slightly more college money than Mom, even though there was an income differential of about 400% (and that isn’t even counting my stepmom’s salary, which is about equal to his; they had no kids or other significant financial obligations at the time). Luckily, I was a good student and had full-tuition grants, so by cobbling together loans, a job, summer earnings, and a little bit from Mom, I made it through college more or less in one piece. My sister was never much of a student, though; she still hasn’t finished college, and finances are a large part of the reason. (Dad always said his budget was too squeezed, but somehow he finds more than $10k/year to send my half-brother to private elementary school. And never mind that his parents put him through Princeton, even after he ended up on academic probation, and believe me, their financial means were much more modest.)
Am I bitter? Naaah, not at all.
:rolleyes:
Sometimes it’s just easier to have her killed, get caught and do the time in jail.
(ok, I’m joking,. sort of)
squeegee-
I don’t have a thing to contribute…except for I’m in Southern Cal, and in the same boat as you.
I’m trying my damndest to keep the situation as “nice” as an ugly situation can be…
anyway-
maybe the only thing I can contribute is a bit of commiseration…
To All: Thanks for the contributions to this thread.
I’d thought the thread had died a couple of days ago, and now I come back to see all of these wonderful contributions. Thanks!
I just now found all of today’s posts as I’m tired and ready for bed. I will reread and comment in the AM. Thanks very much for all the helpful thoughts and contributions.
** The_Stranger** - thanks! {{hugs}}
** Seven **, shame on you. Not kidding.
About a year ago I was in the same boat. I was pretty sure my marriage was doomed.
Now it is fine.
Individual thearpy for each of us helped the most. Mrs. Z needed to start medication to stablize her mood swings and for myself, I needed some regular thearpy and a sleep study and a new sleep mask that eliminates my snoring.
Now we both can sleep in the same room.
But divorce always reminds of these lines from a Paul Simon song.
Well, this will eat up a year of my life,
then there’s all that weight to be lost.
Work it out if you can, make a good clean and fair break of it if you can’t.
Good luck.
Zebra
You could Quit Claim Deed the house to her so she doen’t have to move. Since you make more it would make sense for you to find your own place quickly.
You could have a mediator (a liason through the court that costs about $45 a session) to sit with you while you discuss “joint custody”
Doesn’t that sort of give her everything though? We made a list of all of our assets and all of our liabilities. totaled both and divided both. He got half and I got half - of BOTH. That only seems fair.
In Florida if you are getting divorced and have children it is MANDATORY that you go to Parenting Classes. The cost is about $100. You can not get divorced without the “graduation papers” from Parenting Class.
I still say give her the house and then don’t pay her alimony.
squeegee, I’m rooting for you folks to work this out and stay as an intact family. I understand that sometimes things just don’t work out, but man, the big “D” is no picnic.
If I gave you $30,000 and said “Go home and improve your marriage”, what would you do with it?
If I gave you $30,000 and said “Go home and be the best possible dad for your kid”, what would you do?
If I introduced you to a divorce lawyer and he said “Gimme $30,000 and I’ll get you two unhitched, but whatever nastiness is in the air between you won’t go away”, what would you do?
IANALawyer, IANATherapist; heck, I don’t even have $30,000! But having looked over the ledge, I’d encourage giving things another go. Fourteen years of marriage, a young son… it’ll be worth another look.
--HJSign nothing and make no verbal agreements with anyone until you’ve secured counsel. Given your financial status, and the fact that you share a child who is only four, your situation is fairly complex and will probably require that you each have legal representation. There is no “easy way out”; the path before you is fraught with dangers to your emotional and financial well-being, and you need to proceed very carefully, not just for your sake, but also for the sake of your son. A Dad who is bankrupt and emotionally crippled won’t be a big help to him during a critical period in his life. It’s very difficult, but do everything you can to stay healthy and on an even keel emotionally. Get counseling for yourself, even in addition to marriage counseling.
IANAL, IANAC, but I’ve been divorced twice and I can promise you above all that divorce is never easy, even under the best circumstances. I’m sorry that you have to go through this. Take care of yourself.
OK, I’m really not keeping up my end of this thread. Apologies.
MrsSqueegee and I have gotten to a stable equilibrium for this week. Things are still grim, but quieter. I’m not imminently moving out. Basically, we’re not talking very much and maintaining a stable front.
The old joke: "These days we have Hall Sex – we pass each other in the hall and say, ‘Fuck you’ ". A couple of days ago we were close to that stage, this week we’re more civil.
We’ve agreed to do counseling again. So far, marriage counselor referrals aren’t working out, the referrals have all been stale. I’m going to just start down the yellow pages A-Z tomorrow and set up interviews for us with whoever answers the phone. Hopefully we can find someone acceptable, but I’m expecting a couple of unsuccessful attempts. Independance Day vacations will probably get in the way, so I’d expect I’ll find more contacts next Monday.
Overall: I really don’t want to get divorced. I want to work things out.
But that’s not entirely my decision.
Quick responses, apologies any omissions:
JohnBckWLD: Thanks for the marriage counseling thread. Very helpful (and very depressing).
Kallessa, sigh, I hadn’t even thought about spousal support – I stupidly assumed that it’s her problem and my problem is child support. Thanks for the links – I see I need some educating.
Really? I had no idea. I guess I need a lawyer immediately then. OTOH, I don’t want to crank up the hostility by having papers served if I flee to the Holiday Inn for a while. Is this really necessary??
** Isabelle ** re: the Quit Claim Deed – the house is far from paid for, & I can’t see MrsSqueegee making a $3k house+tax payment every month. I can’t see how we cannot sell the house & split the proceeds if we split up. Am I missing something?
Zebra - thanks, I’d rather work it out than divorce, I’m just not very hopeful right now. I agree, I’m going to find a counselor just for me – I’ll need it either way.
To several posters discussing “Issues regarding My Son after I Meet The Next Love Of My Life” – I’m not even sure I can think that far ahead right now. I still have the Love Of My Life right now. I’m pretty sure I don’t want another relationship, ever. Yeah, I know, things happen over time. Point taken, but I’m not sure how to convert that point into action items.
mipiace, it’s nice to know that these things can work out amicably, even with lawyers. If MSQ and I bust up, that’s what I hope for – a (reasonably) amicable relationship, a fair asset settlement, a fair deal for our son and ourselves.
Thank you one and all for all the great information. Sincerely appreciated!!!