2001-no retractions here. Ay child having sex with an adult is by defiition coerced.
Good for you if you don’t mind all the abuse cases where your ideas don’t exactly work.
Voodoochile!
So when your daughter, who wants to try something (ya gotta try what feels good) you will tel her to go for it, I hope you don’t mid bher taking heroin or such.
Secondly, To infer that a 14-year old boy would probably invite and enjoy such a thing while a girl would only feel “victimized” is absolute, total bullshit, idealistic dreaming pure and simple. I would be extremely willing to bet that (as long as the situation was not directly coercive) either 14-yr old would be rather flattered to be considered in such a way. There might be a case of general nerves the first time around, but neither would have any major problems with the actual act. You could point out that a child “so young” does not fully understand all the possible implications of their actions in the matter, but then, there are some people who NEVER seem to understand that–and there’s no technical amount of years when you can point to anyone and say “Okay, you are now old enough to fuck”, except the arbitrary age the government sets to enact a law they had no business enacting in the first place.
---- Hell, I can remember when I was in junior-high school, during parties when girls that age managed to “make out” (or worse) with guys 3-4 years older, they would come to school and BRAG about it to their friends, they did not seem embarassed about it in the least. Girls of all types voluntarily had that kind of contact with older guys all the time. A boy that age getting contact from a girl that much older seemed to be very rare but when it occurred, they bragged about it as well. Girls sexually mature earlier than boys, and consequently it only makes sense that they have to turn to older boys to get reciprocal attention. It is more natural for the boy to be the older of the two than it is the girl.
Third, the main problem I have with the issue is that there seems to often be a vast difference in punishments meted out, depending on if the older person is male or female. There’s no logical basis for this discrepancy in punishments; if you argue that a boy is “less physically affected” by such an event (ignoring STD possibilities), then you are essentially arguing the puritannical concept that a girl is “ruined” and “dirty” if she has sex before she is married. You cannot presume that males and females have the same social standings, and yet treat such events as differently affecting them.
~
So let me get this straight…
A 23-year old adult who works with children gets to know a 14-year old child on a field trip. The adult then proceeds to invite the student to spend special time with them in the workplace, takes to driving them to various appointments and activities, shows up at child-oriented gatherings where the student is present, and gives the child their cell phone number.
The adult then declares, in private, unstoppable feelings for the child and kisses them. They take the child to the adult’s home and perform oral sex on them. The adult performs oral sex on the child again during a car trip with the child’s slightly older cousin. The adult states that they are "turned on by the fact that having sexual relations with [the child] was not allowed.’’ On two different occasions, the adult asks the child’s older cousin to drive them around while they have sex with the child.
The fist the child’s mother hears of the relationship is the child’s aunt’s reaport of the child bragging about having sex with a “hot teacher from his school”. At that point, police get involved.
If the teacher were male, and and student female, the reaction WOULD be:
This is a sick and twisted sexual predator who manipulated the situation from the very beginning. Their very actions show that they have no regard whatsoever for the very real potential consequences for the minor of sexual relations (pregnancy, STD transmission, etc.) or how those consequences, or the relationship itself might affect the child’s family. This is an abuse of the trust parents place in community institutions whose express purpose is the proper introduction of their children to society. The fact that the child seemed to enjoy the relationship is more or less inconsequential, since they are too young to be able to make rational, responsible decisions about such matters, and could be all to easily confused and manipulated by the attention, a fact the adult in the relationship, given the professional education they received, certainly could not have failed to be aware of. We can only hope that the child’s worldview has not been permanently skewed in some way by this business.
If the teacher were male, and the student male, the reaction WOULD be:
This is a sick and twisted sexual predator who manipulated the situation from the very beginning. Their very actions show that they have no regard whatsoever for the very real potential consequences for the minor of sexual relations (pregnancy, STD transmission, etc.) or how those consequences, or the relationship itself might affect the child’s family. This is an abuse of the trust parents place in community institutions whose express purpose is the proper introduction of their children to society. The fact that the child seemed to enjoy the relationship is more or less inconsequential, since they are too young to be able to make rational, responsible decisions about such matters, and could be all to easily confused and manipulated by the attention, a fact the adult in the relationship, given the professional education they received, certainly could not have failed to be aware of. We can only hope that the child’s worldview has not been permanently skewed in some way by this business.
If the teacher were female, and the student female, the reaction WOULD be:
This is a sick and twisted sexual predator who manipulated the situation from the very beginning. Their very actions show that they have no regard whatsoever for the very real potential consequences for the minor of sexual relations (pregnancy, STD transmission, etc.) or how those consequences, or the relationship itself might affect the child’s family. This is an abuse of the trust parents place in community institutions whose express purpose is the proper introduction of their children to society. The fact that the child seemed to enjoy the relationship is more or less inconsequential, since they are too young to be able to make rational, responsible decisions about such matters, and could be all to easily confused and manipulated by the attention, a fact the adult in the relationship, given the professional education they received, certainly could not have failed to be aware of. We can only hope that the child’s worldview has not been permanently skewed in some way by this business.
Yet, the opinion of many posters here is that since the teacher was female, and the student male, the reaction SHOULD be:
What a lucky kid!
Puberty?
Cute. Except the sexes of the parties have no bearing on my opinion. Thanks for guessing, though!
No, people continue to mature through their whole lives.
I suppose there’s a possibility that some 8 year old somewhere might be physically and mentally ready for sex, but it would be a very exceptional case. Age 12 is not a magic dividing line any more than 16, 18, or 21.
Again, age is irrelevant. It is OK to have sex with someone who’s physically and mentally ready for it. There are fewer 14 year olds who fit those criteria than 18 year olds, fewer 12 year olds than 14 year olds, and even fewer 8 year olds, if any.
It isn’t appropriate when the kid in question is denied adult rights. Kids don’t suddenly become adults just by breaking the law. If they aren’t allowed to do the same things as adults–apply for a driver’s license, buy tobacco, vote, sign contracts, etc.–then they shouldn’t face the same legal penalties.
I’m not sure that a license would be needed. We could just eliminate the age laws and let rape be prosecuted as rape.
I have spent plenty of time with my 13 year old brother, 14 year old cousin, and their friends. Some of them I would trust to make these decisions; others, I would not.
If he can handle it safely. Same as anyone else.
Ice cream, toys, and hugging? Those don’t sound like things that impress adolescents who are physically and mentally ready for sex - i.e. the minors who I’ve said should be able to make sexual decisions. Perhaps my position isn’t so close to theirs after all.
Oh well. I have no respect for someone who says, against all evidence, that I approve of coercion - first because it’s insulting, and second because it’s obviously untrue, as anyone who has read my posts can tell. But I suppose you don’t care what I think.
If you believe that, you have a seriously twisted definition of coercion.
I have to go along with erislover here. Who exactly is it that you think would react differently if the genders were reversed?
Puberty?
What’s puberty, though?
I had breasts in the 2nd grade. Does that count? Or, for girls, is it when your periods start?
What about boys?
So where do you draw the line where a kid can say “yes”?
Who decides this? Again, are you speaking for some sort of sex license?
So if you have your way, kids would face the same legal penalties as adults?
So your sample of half a dozen kids is authorative, even though it is inconclusive?
You keep on leaving out “financially ready” for it. How many of these 12-14 year olds are financially ready to pay for child support, or support and care for a child that is the result of an unexpected pregnancy?
Well, they sexes of the parties do have a bearing on reality. There is a huge difference between a 14 year old boy with a 23 year old woman and a 14 year old girl and a 23 year old man.
Which is?
Depends on the individual. Surely you don’t expect me to pick an age after everything I’ve said so far.
The medical and psychological community can come up with guidelines for judging individuals. Whether it is implemented as a license (i.e. you go somewhere and prove that you are ready) or not (i.e. if you are victimized, the prosecutor shows in court that you weren’t ready) seems like a minor detail to me.
Yes, but only when they have the same legal rights as adults. That would be an improvement over the situation today, where the government can say someone is a child when he wants to vote or buy cigarettes, but an adult when he is on trial.
Look, what do you want? You told me I should spend some time around kids; I told you I’ve already done so. Boy Scouts and campers aren’t any more representative of all kids than my relatives and their friends are.
Yeah, and they aren’t financially ready for it because society considers them too young to hold a job. Society also considers them too young to have sex. They aren’t inherently so: if there were a higher expectation, they would tend to rise to it (insert obligatory 
here). Reminds me of the time when there were restrictions on the actions of women because they weren’t as capable of wise and strong choices as men were :rolleyes:.
So, on the one hand, we have a system that locks up the older partner in a consenting relationship for a good portion of their adult life, permanently brands them with a scarlet letter for the rest of it, cheapens the definition of rape and abuse, and takes away options for children of conscience who don’t want to burden adults with the potential for jail.
On the other hand, maybe, once in awhile, a rape that really was a rape is prosecuted more easily due to statuory rape laws. Considering the brouhaha about child abuse these days, if we just enforced existing rape laws, very few of the forcible rapes would slip through the cracks.
So, you want kids who get in fights in the playground to go to prison for assault?
Yes, because sample size of 6 == sample size of 600.
How many times are you going to keep asking the same question?
Until you answer it?
So you’re saying that if society expected them to be able to hold a job and support a (hypothetical) unexpected baby, that many of them might be able to do it? (And attend school as well?) Okay, that’s possible. We’d have to repeal labor laws in order to find out, I suppose.
Or, are you saying that if a 12-year-old, or 14-year-old has definitely proven that they are capable of holding down a job (enough to support an unexpected child), and they are “emotionally ready” to have sex, then they should be able to have sex legally?
In my opinion, if a kid could really, legitimately, be able to hold down a job—enough of one to support his or her child—and do it without help from mommy and daddy (and without expecting mommy and daddy to offer free room and board for their baby, free babysitting for their baby, or financial help in any way for the baby) then, damn. The kid’s old enough to have sex (providing they are emotionally ready as well).
How many 12, 13, 14-year-old kids do you think would possibly be capable of this level of responsibility?
I’m nearing the end of my teen years, and you would not believe how far fetched and frankly idiotic some of your statements are.
Zagadka:
I know/have heard of many 12, 13, 14, and 15 year olds who want/have children. Your point being? Would you not argue that if they’re going to have a child that it’s best to have it with someone who can potentially support them and that child? I find it horribly hypocritical to condemn a loving relationship simply because “they don’t know what that is.” I would argue that much if not most of the “adult” population does not know what a loving and meaningful relationship is. Be it at 14, or at 45, are you going to deny someone’s emotions based upon some ridiculous age limit? Should I not be allowed to vote because I am 17, yet more politically aware than a good majority of able bodied voters? Please. Do you consider all teens so naive? Nothing magical happens when you turn 18.
I fully support the mentality that if you understand the risks, the benefits, and the consequences, then you should be allowed to partake in that activity, be it drinking, voting, driving, having sex, drug use, etc. Note: I am not condoning drug use.
Society has arbitrarily placed an age limit as to what can and cannot define a loving and meaningful relationship. What scares me the most of these “statuatory rape laws” is that even in consenting relationships, one can still be tried and convicted (That kid in Florida).
Not all sex between adults and minors is abuse. It needs to be made clear. By your definition, if I turn 18, and my girlfriend (who I’ve dated for three+ years) and I have sex, I am abusing her? What the fuck? Seriously…
Oh, but I guess apparently she is incapable and/or incompetent to make her own decisions regarding her own body.
Are there pedophiles you genuinely abuse minors? Yes. Are there couples involving minors and adults in which there is a reciprocating, loving relationship? Yes. In the end this boils down to shades of grey.
Oh! She wasn’t even a teacher of his. They met through the field trip… She was never in a position of power over him, directly. Albeit indirect…
You mean an adult?
I fail to understand why Adult-Minor relationships have generally been accepted throughout every major civilization throughout history, but now they are suddenly taboo and strictly “off limits.”
If anyone can demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that they are capable of partaking in events or tasks, then why should they be denied? There are invariably 14 year olds who are many times over more mature than 30 year olds.