Okay, I have read Lord of the Rings now and I have some questions

So the Seven had the downside of cranking up the greed of the wearer. But what powers did they grant?

The Seven had the power of increasing their owner’s wealth, and likely a few other related powers.

I’d always presumed that they somehow helped the dwarves FIND more gold and jewels, but I suppose they could also have somehow greased the wheels of business dealings to allow them to drive, er, shrewder bargains.

But yeah, it’s kinda vague - all we really know about the Seven is that the dwarves used them “to gather great wealth.” But it’s clear from the discussion at the Council of Elrond that folks at least believe that they had other powers as well, since they were discussed as potential “weapons” against Sauron.

The Seven, like all the Great Rings, amplified the natural traits of their bearers. So for a dwarf, it would make him better at accumulating wealth, in various ways. Think of all of those intangibles that make the difference between a successful businessman and an unsuccessful one.

And the Secret Fire is basically Tolkien’s word for the Holy Spirit. Gandalf’s scene on the bridge is one of only a handful of references to God in the trilogy.

And note that it’s “Anor” in the book, not “Arnor” as Sir Ian spake it. Arnor is a region of Middle-earth.

I don’t think Sir Ian actually botched it, except perhaps as pronunciation - he said it as “Aahnor” instead of “aynor” is all. It’s only “Arnor” if you’re from Boston. :stuck_out_tongue:

It did sound slightly like Arnor IMO, but not as bad as his pronunciation of “It’s a demond of the ancient world”.

:::hijack:: and didn’t the goblins singing in the background of that scene sound like they were singing…
…don’t click if you don’t want your impression of grandeur of the scene to be ruined forever

…I’m warning you…

Na na na na na…who got salami? Who got salami?

Another question: Sauron made, or helped make, rings in groups of one, three, seven, and nine. Why was there not a group of five rings? Just to make the poem work out?

I distinctly remember hearing the “r” in there.

It’s not entirely clear whether there was one batch of 7, and a separate batch of 9, or whether it was simply one batch of 16. The book says that Sauron gave 7 to the Dwarves, and 9 to Men, but it never states that the Seven were different from the Nine.

Then again, each of the Elven rings was unique (Gandalf’s had a ruby, Elrond’s had a sapphire, Galadriel’s had a diamond), so it’s quite possible that each of the others was unique, as well. Somewhere Gandalf states that, except for the One Ring, “each of the rings had its proper stone”.

Sounds like Arnor to me but I could see arguing either way.

Clearly, the Balrog was just as confused as we are, and Gandalf, with great treachery, struck first while the Balrog was standing there all puzzled like.

“Did… did he just say Arnor? WTF?”

Nitpick, Sauron had no input on the making of the Three. Those were made in secret after the Elves got wind of Sauron’s plan. That said the Elves were apparently in the dark about the One.

Nah, he was just trying to remember if he had wings.

They made the rings based on his [ancient] teachings, though, right?

Definately not like him having a password into their rings, but they are still based on “flawed”, or “tainted”, knowledge.

It’s unclear how much knowledge Sauron brought to the party and how much Celebrimbor had. In the end each was able to make a ring of their own, but not until after they worked together. If Sauron had the power himself he could have forged them alone and gone as Annatar to the Dwarf Kings and Kings of Men to present the gifts without involving the elves.

Even better to get the elves involved, though. If you give them “twisted” knowledge, everything they make will be cursed. Sauron just gets to sit back, pop some popcorn, and wait. (Plus he likes to plant seeds of doom that take some time to develope. I guess he thinks its funny.)

They definitely were linked to Sauron as they faded after the One Ring was destroyed.

If Sauron was a fallen angel and the elves were lesser than he was then is it not more likely that he didn’t really need any help from them but just wanted to have the opportunity to sneak a back door or whatever into all the power rings so he could control them? I don’t recall anything in the books that says otherwise.

I wouldn’t say more likely.

The gulf between Elves and “Fallen Angels” is exceedingly fine in Middle Earth. The Silmarils were created by an Elf, and they were beyond the ability of Morgoth himself to create. An Elf also fought Morgoth in single combat and permanently crippled him. There’s nothing “just” about ME Elves, or perhaps ME Angels ain’t all that.

While the Elves of the second age were much less than the likes of Feanor, Sauron was also much, much less than Morgoth. Morgoth wasn’t just a “Fallen Angel”, he was a fallen God, the second, or possibly third, most powerful being in the universe. While he was more powerful than any individual Elf, the gulf wasn’t so wide that he could simply dismiss the Elves as irrelevant. Sauron OTOH was ‘just’ a Maiar. He was physically beaten by an Elf and a Man in combat. There is no way Sauron could have matched the works of Feanor or the Elves of the First Age, and it’s more than plausible that he couldn’t match the works of the Elves of the second.

So it’s entirely consistent with the history of ME that the Elves had skills that Sauron was unable to duplicate by himself.