Omnibus Trolls R Us Thread

[joyfool]

I don’t even know what to call this, but quote #1 comes from the “Women do you think about boffing strangers?” (paraphrased) and quote #2 is from the one about fat chicks by our height-challenged troll. Y’all decide.

@Senegoid

What Rushgeedgirl (Post #5) and jtur88 (Post #7) said.

Seriously, there’s way too much hostility from many of you females because so many of you seem to think that the only thing males want with you is a hot roll in the hay.

There’s a whole lot more than that, less male-hostile and less sex-hostile, even mentioned by many female respondents in this very thread, that you don’t seem to imagine that males would like also.

A female friend with whom to engage in:

[ul]
[li] Congenial dates, consisting of social or recreational activities together: Day trips at the beach, hike in the redwoods, visit museums – all the stuff you see ad infinitum in all those on-line personals ads.[/li]
[li] Companionship[/li]
[li] Affection, both emotional and physical. Holding hands (e.g., while engaging in the first bullet above), hugging, cuddling, massage, “making out”. Clothes on or clothes off. You get the picture. This is all apart from actual sex.[/li][/ul]

All those “nice guys” and “Nice Guys™” who aren’t getting laid, also aren’t getting any of the above. The whole concept of “gettingt laid” has become a proxy for all that – males who complain of not having any “success” with females are actually complaining about not getting any of the above – yet they are invariably flamed to hell (and not back) for complaining about “not getting laid” – when, in fact, when you read their complaints, that’s not actually what they usually said.

Challenge: Find threads or blogs or whatever on the topic, on this board or elsewhere (other than outright MRA sites), and see how many of actually specifically mention “not getting laid” as their complaint. Mostly, not. Find threads or blogs or whatever where such relationship-challenged males explicitly claim “entitlement” – you won’t find that. (The only case I know of, who explicitly claimed “entitlement”, was that guy who shot up the sorority in Santa Barbara a while back, in the manifesto he left.) Yet, in response, such males are invariably thoroughly flamed, reviled, demonized, and vilified because they are accused of just wanting to “get laid” and, falsely, they are accused of feeling “entitled”.

What jtur88 said. Just like what Rushgeekgirl said. Males, just as much as females, want the kinds of things that I listed above. And, yes,

Yes, sex is important too. Males want that as well.Nobody’s flaming any females (well, other than ZPG Zealot) for the rare male-positive things they are writing in this thread. (And thanks to beowulff for raising this topic!) Now, when was the last time any males didn’t get flamed for writing/saying/thinking the same things about females?

@Senegoid

This remarks leads us to discuss the biggest fallacy in ALL these bitter, allegedly misogynistic, threads, and not just in these threads but IRL too.

I’ll give the TL;DR first, since I can see this is going to be lengthy: Those nasty bitter cynical misogynistic males weren’t born that way (mostly, probably). Many of them could have been actual nice guys in their earlier lives, but socially awkward (or maybe just short), and were largely or totally unsuccessful with the females for years and years and years – then they become cynical, angry, and bitter. Not the other way around. They aren’t losers with the ladies because they are bitter (well, now they are, but it wasn’t always that way). No, they were nice guys but became bitter after year upon year of – nothing – and thus they evolved from nice guys to “Nice Guys™”.

[/end of TL;DR]

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It’s so easy to snark and revile at those bitter cynical people like OP, and to tell them: Well of course you’re never going to get any “chicks”, “fat” or otherwise, if you’re going to be like that!

Here’s the fallacy: Do you think all these bitter, angry, love-starved, sex-starved guys were always like that? Do you think they were born like that? Probably not, usually, I would suppose. How do you think they got that way in the first place?

These are people who might well have been “nice guys” [not “Nice Guys™”] in their earlier existence – you know, those nerdy or socially awkward males who, as flodnak put it:

(Okay, we’ll overlook that fact that the above quote was discussing Rick Santorum. It could be any number of other dweebs.)

What do you think happens when they get rejected – can’t hardly ever even get a coffee date, let alone get an actual relationship going – for [del]month after month after month[/del] year after year after year? It is any surprise that these guys are going to get more than a little bit bitter by and by?

Then they evolve from “nice guy” into “Nice Guy™” – the embittered long-term rejects, reviled and demonized by everyone. They are accused of “feeling entitled to sex”, although I challenge anyone here to find a case where one of them actually said or wrote that. See this rather recent thread, titled “Nice Guys” vs. Decent, Albeit Clueless, Men" for discussion. Look at kunilou’s vacuous attempt to be helpful:

Look: “There’s nothing actually wrong with you, but I have zero attraction toward you.”

What happens when one hears that over and over, year after year after year? That might actually (and does) happen to a socially awkward male. Is it true that he “There’s nothing actually wrong with you”? If so, then why no relationship after years and years? Or is it false that “There’s nothing actually wrong with you”? In which case, all the friends that said that were flat-out talking BSDL (Bullshit, doubletalk and lies).

Answer: They just might turn into that guy that Loach knows:

If these males can go for so many years without a match, does prove that they were, in face, just jerks all along? If so, why didn’t their so-called “friends” tell them, along with some actual helpful suggestions – as opposed to kunilou’s vacuous pablum?

More correctly, they were “promised” a relationship (never sex explicitly, but of course that’s implied). All their so-called “friends” (all of whom perceived from the moment they met that such a guy had no chance of ever getting [del]laid[/del] a girlfriend) assured them that they just need to get out more and meet more females; surely there is someone in one of your classes [or wherever] who is interested in you; there are plenty of available people to meet (notwithstanding that the majority of those are in China); “plenty of fish”; you’ll meet that special someone eventually – All BSDL! These “nice guys” hear that for years from all their “friends”, who knew all along it was BSDL. Look again at kunilou’s last line:

“Assuming they’re actually nice and not “Nice Guys” things will click for them eventually.”

Lies! Bullshit, doubletalk and lies! BSDL!

These guys aren’t asking “where’s all this sex I’m entitled to?” – they’re asking “where’s all this sex [a proxy for a relationships, really] that I’ve been promised all these years?” Yes, it takes a while for a naive young adult (especially a socially awkward one) to understand that “things will click for [you] eventually” is just a vacuous anodyne lie.

No, these guys don’t have any “women friends who could help out”. That’s unheard of. If they have any female acquaintances at all (a rare case in itself), they will offer nothing more than the anodyne BSDL, like the examples above, and maybe lots of that.

Here’s a rich one: “Just hang tight another six weeks until the wedding. You’re certain to meet someone there.” Yes, some-female-one really said that.

(The more I skim through that thread (here’s the link again) the more it seems like required reading. Look carefully – see all the sweet romantic anodyne lies there.)

Hey, I just googled site:boards.straightdope.com dry spell and got a whole page of threads discussing how long various posters’ last or current “dry spell” was – where “dry spell” is explicitly defined as time since last getting laid. Yeah, people actually talk about that – a lot. I’m inclined to interpret “sexual dry spell” as a metaphor that actually means “not having an actual relationship” for a long time. The more common response seems to be along the lines “hey, you got hands? So shut up and masturbate. What more do you need?” Um… y’know, sitting home alone jerking off doesn’t really substitute for all the things a relationship can be. I see anger and hostility in so many responses like that.

Enough. So:

Summary: Even actual nice guys get turned down incessantly for years on end, until they become angry, bitter, and resentful, and evolve into the reviled “Nice Guy™”. – Can you blame them? “Entitlement” has nothing to do with it.