I think I’m going to shock a coworker later today. You see, yesterday, she sent me a bit of glurge which said, in effect, “Say this prayer and God will solve your money problems.” Because of a bit of bad timing*, I took offense. I’ve thought about why I did so, and I’m afraid I really do consider it morally wrong to ask God only for money. As a lot of you know, I’m a Christian who actually does read the Bible. I don’t recall Jesus saying anything positive about material prosperity. In fact, I seem to recall that He tells us not to worry about it and that He once told a rich man to give all He had to the poor. In short, it’s basically unthinkable to pray that God should make me rich or even pay off my mortgage.
Don’t get me wrong. I’ve been short on cash most of my life, and I’ve been laid off and not sure where the money’s coming from. On the other hand, cash alone is nothing more than a tool to me. I tend to be too tightfisted as it is, but I regard that as a moral failing in that it shows I don’t trust God as much as I should. I also know money is an extremely useful tool and you can’t accomplish much in this world without it. The mortgage company won’t accept a bucket full of good deeds instead of a check. On the other hand, what good is having money if I as a loud-mouthed Christian don’t use it to serve God?
I wouldn’t mind being wealthy and I do buy lottery tickets once in a blue moon, but if I hit it big, I know full well I’d give half of it away. Lots of money isn’t on my list of things that are important, although that nebulous quantity “enough money” is.
I suspect I may be being a bit weird or even radical here, and I’m looking for a reality check, if you’ll pardon the phrase. How about it, fellow Dopers?
CJ
*It was the first bit of glurge I’ve received from her and it came in less than 24 hours after I learned I was getting an inheritance from my grandmother who died on Monday
I’m not a Christian, but putting myself back in my former shoes, I thought the motive behind the money was a more important factor. If you are just praying to God to get rich, I think it would be discouraged; however if you are praying to God for money, in order to help someone else or glorify God (or something to that effect), I would think it would be okay. I would also think that the prayer would be more then just praying for a specific amount-it’d be praying for an amount of money AND that the money helped the individual, the cause, etc.
If one has faith, and trusts in their Higher Power, then fear of economic insecurity should depart. To me, that is the message which religions would do well to emphasize. Not that their money woes will be solved, but that the fear will abate.
“Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also” (Matthew 6:21)
"So don’t worry, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’ For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be provided for you. " (Matthew 6:31-33)
I would agree with Siege. I don’t think it’s right to ask for money. Prayer is supposed to be, among other things, an effort to bring oneself into tune with God’s will.
I say go ahead and pray for it. Your prayers may be answered, but likely the answer is no. In my opinion you’re more likely to get divine help if you pray for money to help the needy other than yourself. Personally, I think money is a human invention that God doesn’t have any interest in.
I think this old joke illustrates it:
Man: Hey God, what is a million dollars to you?
God: One penny.
Man: Hey God, how long is a million years to you?
God: One second.
Man: Hey God, will you give me a penny?
God: Sure, just a second.
Good attitude. And if you view money as a tool with which to serve God, you have the opposite attitude from the glurge: to use God as a tool to make money. I’m sure you don’t need Biblical cites as to how offensive that is.
But I don’t see anything wrong in praying that your basic needs be met (“Give us this day our daily bread.”)
You’re not insinuating that cow-orker sent you the email upon learning about your inheritance, are you? (As a misguided little “I told you so” to suggest that while God may have taken your grandmother, at least he also took care of your financial problems…) Because that would be grounds for a flensing.
Shortly after my lapsed-Methodist father died (I was 13 at the time), my ultra-Catholic aunt remarked to me, “I hope your dad found Jesus before he died, because otherwise he’s in hell.” Nice thing to tell a 13 year-old.
If you believe that God holds the power to bestow or withhold wealth, isn’t it God’s will that you are poor? Isn’t it rather presumptuous to pray for God to change His will? To ask God to change his will presumes that He is wrong to keep you in poverty, and you are right seek His power to increase your wealth. Doesn’t this challenge divine infallibility?
I should think a just God would punish anyone who prayed for anything beyond strength or guidance, and even that is iffy; perhaps it is God’s will that some people are weak and confused.
God’s will, according to Scripture (which I presume is a valid presumption to bring into this thread), includes fulfilling the prayers of His faithful people (as may be best for them, in His Wisdom).
That’s not necessarily contradictory – consider when I was babysitting my honorary grandchildren. Though I had a pretty good idea what they might want to do on a hot, sunny day, I waited for them to tell me they wanted to go to the beach, so that in addition to treating them, I’d be doing what they asked. It gave them just a touch more dignity and sense of being in control of their own destiny (plus, an ulterior motive, practice in coming to an agreement amongst themselves ;)). And, obviously, if they’d asked to do something dangerous or otherwise Bad News, I’d have refused them – for their own good.
[hijack]
Heh. For some reason, reading this thread reminded me of the $5000 needed by Jake and Elwood to pay the back taxes for the orphanage. They didn’t pray for the money, but they seemed to get some divine intervention to get the band back together, land the big gig, and get the money back to the Cook County Clerk in time to save the orphanage.
“We’re on a mission from God.”
“Blessed Mother of Acceleration, don’t fail me now!”
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I never pray for money or pray for someone to receive money…to me, it just seems…selfish or short-sighted, but I do pray for the well-being of others (physically, mentally, and the ability to obtain the necessities to live comfortably) and that they can become self-sufficient and be able to make decisions that will improve their living conditions or issues.
Seige, I’m sorry about your grandmother. Were you close? How are you doing?
I was going to use the same reference to say that there is nothing wrong with asking that our physical and material needs are met.
Greed is another matter though. I also wouldn’t pray to win the lottery. (Even if I occasionally buy a ticket).
With regard to your co-worker, though, I believe that true and earnest prayer changes us so that our minds are transformed into what God designed for us - and that eventually, we want what He would have us want, and we pray what He would have us pray.
Eventually.
And it may be that this “pray this prayer” is where she’s at right now…
In all fairness to my coworker, she had no idea about the inheritance and she just didn’t think. She just thought that, since I am very religious, I’d appreciate the prayer. I think she genuinely can’t understand why I’m not into glurge or why I wouldn’t pray for money.
When I was a young, arrogant teenager, I thought “Give us this day our daily bread” was very presumptuous. “After all”, I thought, given the resources God gives us, shouldn’t I be able to provide my own living?" When I was in my twenties living paycheck to paycheck, I realized that maybe that wasn’t as presumptuous as I thought! :eek:
Several months ago, I prayed that I might get out of the rather awful job I had. The thing was, I couldn’t pray that I’d get a better paying job; I only prayed that I might better serve God and, incidentally, get a job where I wasn’t considering homicide at regular intervals. To my amusement, the company I now work for does bulk mailings for the Episcopal Church on a regular basis, as well as the local foodbank!
I wonder why any one would need to pray for anything,it seems to me to pray is a lack of trust in a God who knows everyone’s needs. A good father would not deprive a child of anything he needs to have a good life, nor would he give his child anything that would harm him. A human father doesn’t have the knowledge that God has, or knows the result of the answer to a child’s request.
I trust that such an all knowing God doesn’t need my requests,God already knows my needs. I would never tell a child who had just finished a good meal to ask it’s father to feed him. To me it would be an insult to the father, that he needed me to tell him to care for his children.
I recall reading an essay by C. S. Lewis that addressed monavis’s argument (though it’s been a few years, so I hope I’m remembering it accurately).
God has given us free will and the ability to have an effect on the world both through our actions and through our prayers. Just as we can work to change circumstances, we can pray to change circumstances (though in the case of prayer, God has the option of saying No).
By monavis’s logic, wouldn’t doing anything show a lack of trust in a God who knows everyone’s needs? Why should I work for a living—why should I get up and go to the refigerator and make myself a sandwich, or make my kid a sandwich? If God knows that we need nutriments to live, why can’t he meet that need without my having to do anything? God has set up the universe so that it somehow matters what we do, including what we pray for.
My point exactly… Jesus prayed that," all would be one, even as he and the Father were one". It is now 2005 years,and his prayer is still not answered. He prayed to have the burden lifted from Him, then He prayed…“If it be your will,not, mine be done” He was quoted as saying “I do the will of my Father” Why would he ask the Father then, what his will was, if he already knew he was doing the Father’s will?
He was sent, or came, that all men be saved;yet he spoke in parables so some would not understand and be saved. Years ago, before antibotics were discovered one could pray for healing and nothing happened, Now with antibiotics etc. Many ailments are cured.
If prayer works why aren’y people praying for understanding of each other. Why they do the things they do. Pray that all the despots have a change of mind, Pray that the need to go to war be unnecessary. We pray to win games etc. in so doing we are asking that the others fail.
We were born to live, the animals seem to know this better than we do. They use their given instincts to survive. We need to use ours for the same, and look out for those who cannot survive in our culture. We work, play, and take care of each other.The expression, God helps them that help themselves, is a good code(in my view) to live by.
If I see or hear of someone in need I do what I can for them. I have never been in need as some have been, and my heart goes out to them.Work makes life more interesting, and now we know that older people who keep active have a better chance of staying well.
These things I (and I’m quite sure many other people) do pray for. I do not pray for home team wins, although I have prayed for my kids to play to the best of their ability and not to get injured.
I don’t like asking God to do my best. God gave me a talent but with that talent comes the responsibility to learn to use it. Asking for Divine Interference when it is a life lesson I should be learning seems to rub me the wrong way.
Ditto for asking for money. It’s up to me to make sure I do my best. After that, it’s out of my hands.
