Well, if you need someone to play Judge Judy, then yes, I think by a reasonable definition of the word, she “cheated” on you - she broke the rules of your relationship without your consent. But, as you well know, that doesn’t justify doing the same to her. (If anything, I find that people who cheat because they’ve been cheated on MORE reprehensible: you know the pain your were trying to cause her, because you felt it yourself.)
Yes, what she did to you sucked. But the ethical - the non-cheating - responses would have been to call her on her shit, get her blessing for you to have sex elsewhere, or separated from her before dipping your wick.
I’ve cheated and been cheated on in previous relationships (meaning: I had sex with other people in secret and without my partner’s consent or approval, and vice versa). Lots. It was no small part of my decision to become openly and honestly polyamorous. I don’t think I’m wired to provide or demand monogamy, and I don’t thrive in a monogamous relationship. But I’ve never *cheated *on my husband - I’ve never broken the rules of our relationship - no matter how many other people I’ve slept with.
So how does that square with what I believe about cheaters continuing to cheat? Simple: I was trying to fit myself into a definition of “cheating” which didn’t work for me. Now that I’ve found someone who agrees with my definitions, I can be healthy and happy without cheating.
@Inigo: I wish I could have been as clear-minded about it as you. My conscience makes Torquemada look like a girl scout. Well, before the year is out it will have been 15 years since…maybe I can finally, completely, forgive myself. The irony is that for the marriage, it didn’t matter: it was going to die anyway. I wish that made me feel better.
My only point is that sometimes the perfect storm does come along. You’ve admirably resisted, but not all of us had your strength to execute our principles when we needed it.
@Knead: That’s a paraphrase of a French author. The original was even better. Can’t find my lit book but I think it went, “Absence diminishes mediocre passions and augments great ones, like the wind blows out a small candle yet stokes a bonfire.”
@Whynot: I wasn’t doing it to get even…I was doing it to feel worthwhile again. Glad you’ve found what you’re looking for.
Ok. That’s horrible. But where is the “so I turned the lights on and looked at her and asked her wtf is up with us not having sex?”?
And again, where is the proactive choice of confronting her via phone or visits to say, “we need to talk; I no longer feel married to you? What is happening to us?”?
This augurs so many more issues that I think this post may be the just the tip of the iceberg. You had stress at work; she most likely had her own issues. Add drink to this mix, with distance, poor communication and misunderstandings and you have a marriage seriously on the rocks. I hope you got some help. But keep in mind–the sex (or lack of it) was only a symptom. You just listed a whole bunch more.
This is most likely my own issue, but I find it hard to believe that women just knock on doors and show up for sex. I mean, some women, do, but then you give them cash after.
No, she did not cheat on you… sexually. You did that to her. She did, IMO, neglect and break your agreement to respect and love one another. There’s cheating and there’s cheating. Please don’t say she drove you to this other woman who rang more than your doorbell. You chose to do that.
Re she didn’t remember not having sex for 3 months. Perhaps if you can look past your lack of “getting any”, you might drag this out into the cold, harsh light of day and really look at this. This tells me that this woman may well be depressed herself–and that your sex life was not fulfilling to her, no matter what she told you or indicated. Something was wrong; fundamentally, seriously wrong.
(aside: why are guys --and perhaps women too re their partners–so quick to just say, well, she’s a frigid bitch or he’s a withholding bastard and not TALK about this stuff with their spouse?)
Good to see you didn’t go there. And no, she is not guiltless; you are both to blame.
You speak wisdom–and I completely agree.
Yup.
Glad you learned something and sorry you had to learn in such a shitty way. Life can be almost impossible to live sometimes.
I’ll reply but I’m afraid this is turning into a hijack, which I really didn’t intend…
Depression, shame, feeling worthless, pride… But I was deluded, mainly. I thought I could tough it out and she’d come around.
Oh absolutely, all around. The causes and effects become so entangled it was impossible. And yes, after the infidelity (which I never told her about) a host of things demonstrated how miserable I was. I suggested marriage counseling. Only I went; she didn’t see the need.
I know, right? And yet it happened… To ME, not just in Penthouse forum! Now that I’m single, the door is silent.
I never did say that.
Actually I think she was denying the elephant in the middle of the room. She knew but she didn’t want to admit it because then she’d have to answer for it. It was the worst—she wasn’t even going to acknowledge it or explain it or discuss it or apologize (which she never did, anyway) or…anything. At least a discussion would have maybe helped me understand or correct my behavior or SOMETHING.
OR, do we in fact communicate it but the other person doesn’t want to hear it, or doesn’t value it, or…? I’m not saying I was a perfect husband because I wasn’t. And I see now how ill-suited we were to each other but I think I reached an age where I thought it was time to get married, she was the one I was with, etc. It never got off the ground.
I hope this hijack has benefitted the thread in that people may reserve some judgment on cheaters until they have more of a picture of what happened, case by case. Again, I’m not exonerating myself: I’m just saying there are a lot of shades of grey.
I propose we stop talking about me and let others post.
I was married once, in the early 90’s, for four short years. It was an unhappy marriage that I never really wanted in the first place. A couple of years in, I began to try to tell my husband that there was something very wrong with our relationship, and asked him to go to counseling and try to fix it. He denied that there was anything wrong, wouldn’t work with me to salvage it, and ignored my emotional needs. I cheated on him during the last year of our sham, and while I did feel bad about it at the time, I didn’t really look at it as cheating, because I felt that he had abandoned me first. I understand now why I did it, and it most definitely is not because I’m “a cheater” or a bad person, it was because I wasn’t getting the love that I needed at the time, and I’ve forgiven myself. I would not cheat now in any relationship, because now I know how to go about getting my very human and normal needs met, and I’d never have to go to that extreme again. I was dealing with a bad situation in a bad way, for sure, but I was 22 years old and ignorant, and I don’t think I deserve a scarlet A on my forehead.
I researched that French guy’s quote because I liked the sound of it. Here it is for anyone else interested.
*
L’absence diminue les médiocres passions, et augmente les grandes, comme le vent éteint les bougies et allume le feu.*
~François de La Rochefoucauld
I’m more inclined to believe “twice a cheater, always a cheater.” Some people do learn from their mistakes and try hard never to make them again. Those who don’t learn after the first time probably aren’t going to change.
lobotomy–I dissected your post because I wanted to, but also because in doing so, I think I proved my point that not once a cheater, always a cheater (I just didn’t post that last bit).
I think the reasons people cheat are as varied as they are. I also think a marriage can overcome this type of betrayal IF both people work at their relationship (which can be well nigh impossible). Affairs don’t just happen–they’re a symptom. But working it through and regaining trust is more work than a lot of people want to do (or, let’s be honest, are capable of).
This thread is depressing me. I’ve never cheated on The Husband, but I’ve wanted to. Once, the ONLY thing that kept me from doing so was the thought that I might lose the kids, if it came out. So, the straight, narrow and dutiful path for me. It is not so bad here, really. But then, his one night stand while on business in Houston was one of the beginnings of the end for us.
I think I have more sympathy (not sure that’s the right word, how about less contempt?) for cheaters if I have some insight into their situation. But given today’s no fault divorce etc, I don’t see the need for affairs–get out and then get on with it. (that sounds glib and it’s not meant to, sorry).
I was a cheater also, but I never will be again. I don’t feel like going into the details. For one thing, it’ll just sound like I’m making a bunch of excuses. But the real reason is that it was one of the most miserable times of my life. That’s one thing people may not know: unless you are completely conscience-free, cheating is not fun.
A “cheater” cheats. That describes a behavior. A behavior is a repeated action.
What if one only cheats once? Once a cheater doesn’t describe a behavior.
If I lie once am I now defined as a liar? If I kill once am I a killer? If I joke once am I a clown?
Once an anything means only that.
Have to agree with this. I cheated once on my first husband (before we were married) and never have again. That was more than twenty years ago. The reason I cheated - well, I shouldn’t have been getting married and cheated with an old boyfriend in part hoping he’d say “end it.” He didn’t have the courage to say that, so I went through with it and got divorced. That’s “everyone fucks up” - twice over in that case - once in the cheating, the second in not having the backbone to just figure out I needed out.
I know several men who - when they were young (say 16 to 25) habitually cheated as a way to end a relationship. Know a few women who have pulled that one as well. Kind of a stupid way to end things, but it was really low impact for them. At some point, most of them grew up, got married, and - to the best of my knowledge - have all been faithful to their spouse. I wouldn’t say that was a fuck up as much as they were making a really selfish choice to get out of the relationship with the least amount of pain and effort to themselves. At that point, they were assholes - but they grew out of being assholes. And not everyone grows out of being an asshole.
