Did you miss the part about the OP being worried she’s come back and burn his house down? I think that’s a very valid concern.
And the really sick thing is that even if he did call the cops after being stabbed or beaten with the bat the odds are he’d still be the one to get arrested and have to spend a few days in jail while everything get’s sorted out.
Well, for that one night that she goes on a drinking binge *again *and finally manages to kill the “motherfucker” like she obviously wants to, it’d be nice to have some evidence that she’s done shit like that in the past.
At least then those poor kids have SOMEONE other than their crazy-fuck mother to keep them which isn’t dependent on her ending up in jail for manslaughter or not.
Either that, or like **Oak **said, she pulls the crazy drunk routine with a gun instead and accidentally shoots some other family member - maybe even one of the kids instead of the boyfriend. That notarized report and CPS check can be the difference between “accidental discharge” of a firearm and intent to murder someone.
Also, while there is a lot to be said about not living with a meth-head, I have to say that I personally don’t feel that “there are worse living situations” is really the yardstick I’d like to see used for my own family members, and I doubt you would feel the same for your family either.
Lastly, I hate to pile on, but at this point, you’re already on their shit list because you saw what happened that night, so if ANYONE else calls them in for something in the next year or so, crazy bitch is going to assume it was you guys anyway.
Pair that with the certain knowledge that between your feelings of guilt and your wife’s profession, you’d probably find out afterwards if something DID happen to those kids - yikes.
I’d say at the least, you ought to call CPS about the probation violation and the boyfriend abuse in front of the kid, and you should also file an amended report to the police (all you have to do is say that you felt threatened by the crazy bitch, and want to set the record straight because of the property damage for your insurance.) Make both reports written ones, and keep a notarized copy for yourself. If you do those three things (CPS, cops, notarized copies), you’ll not be any further in than you are now, and you’ll save yourself the off chance of feeling like a total ass for the rest of your life if something worse happens later.
From the link you provided seems this would not fall under hearsay if jeredc1983 was in court to assert under oath that the details in what he wrote were accurate. (Could jeredc1983 see an attorney and make a formal declaration under oath that would be admissible if he was not able to be in court?..really asking.)
Of course for the guy in question he’d be in court and I would think his producing a written account of events would be admissible.
I would also think as the lawyers maneuvered pre-trial if one could produce those notarized documents that would give them some leverage.
Note I am not arguing here…I am really asking. Hearsay rules have often befuddled me.
The problem with written statements, whether notarized or not, is that the opposing party has a right to cross examine adverse witnesses. You can’t cross examine a piece of paper.
If the witness is available to testify, he’s going to testify about what he saw. If he forgets details, his prior statement might be used to refresh his memory. Or, if he gets a little creative, the other side might use that statement to impeach him.
If you haven’t already done so, you should read the thread Bricker linked, it’s got some good discussion about hearsay.
Also, laymen tend to greatly overvalue a notary stamp. A paper full of lies can be notarized just as easily as one full of truth. Basically the notary seal means that the notary should have verified the identity of the declarant, and administered the oath.
I did read the link (mostly…skimmed the long exception list).
I should probably start a new thread to explore my questions further.
I understand you cannot cross-examine a piece of paper and understand that rationale. But if you can bring the people into court and can show a notarized piece of paper I would think that should have some value.
I am amazed at how courts will admit testimony years after the issue at hand occurred. Seems to me having your recollection of events written down a few days after the event occurred would be valuable to a court. Particularly that they can verify the account was written shortly after the events. If you can get the person who wrote it in court to stipulate to its veracity what is the problem? Would seem to be strong evidence to me.
Or is it somehow better to ignore that and ask someone to recall what happened three years ago on July 4, 2011?
Basically, you’re trying to dodge cross examination. That is not fair to the opposing party. If the person is present in court, he needs to take the stand and testify in the normal fashion. He can review his own statement prior to the hearing…and likely has if the attorney involved has done the typical witness preparation. Likewise, the opposing party probably has a copy of the his prior statements obtained in discovery, and a list of questions they’d like to ask the witness about what he says he saw.
I doubt this is the first crazy incident. If he silently acquiesced to the abuse in front of other people, you can imagine what she does in private. The kid is in danger of mental abuse if not physical. It is horrible.
Can someone please explain to me how the wife is a mandated reporter? I understood mandated reporting to be a requirement only while a person was acting in a professional role. The wife was just hanging out at home. Is there some kind of law that laypeople are mandated reporters now, too?
That said, you totally should report it. CPS won’t do shit, but you should at least give a quick anonymous phone call. Because maybe someday having that report will be the difference between them choosing or not choosing to investigate that household based on a future report. It’s the very least you can do for that girl.
I found the answer to my question - apparently in some states, every person is considered a mandated reporter regardless of professional status. I was not aware of that.
I had a professor with much experience in child welfare policy who argued that the mandated reporting law should be abolished, because it creates an overwhelming number of false positives. These false positives tie up the caseworkers and prevent them from investigating urgent cases, and kids die. Statistically, so few cases are investigated due to mandated reporting, and even fewer are substantiated. I thought he made a pretty good argument.
Of course, if the OP is in a state where everybody’s required to report, then he’s required to exactly the same extent as his wife, since he knows everything she knows, so he shouldn’t be worried about what she needs to do.
To answer the first question, there are some states that extend the reporting requirement outside of the work environment, although you’re right that most do not, or are silent on the point. PA, for instance, only mandates a report if “a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse.”
ok, John needs to be taught rule #8 : never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself
As with so many abusers, it sounds like the crazy mom is ruling through fear - including controlling you. You and the dad are both scared of what she might do if you try to help the kids and letting that stop you from doing what you know is right. That’s just giving her license to continue to terrorize everyone. Too bad that the kid doesn’t have the choice of avoiding the craziness like you do.
Would you really expect everyone to just laugh it off the next day if you destroyed a friend’s house and beat your spouse with a baseball bat?
The longer this goes on, the more likely it is that those poor kids are going to end up permanently harmed either physically or emotionally. If she would act that crazy and out of control in front of you, there is a great chance that much worse things are happening when they’re home alone. It’s not likely that someone who would beat their spouse with a baseball bat is going to be any more reasonable with their kids. It’s possible the kid does have bruises and injuries that you just didn’t see but that someone who was investigating the situation might be able to find out about it.
Maybe look into getting a restraining order against her if you’re scared she might try to do something to you for calling CPS. However, I definitely think that morally it is important to at least try to help those poor kids get out of this horrible situation.
i think you should call cps and testify against her if necessary. murder suicide is possibly in their future and you dont want the kids to get murdered do ya?
Use your damn phone to shoot some video. Next day, you and wife both write it up as it happened and get it notarized.
Then wait. Whatever comes next, borderline or not, with the video and the write ups you should be able (one would hope, anyway) to get someone to intervene on behalf of the children. Don’t they have grandparents, aunts, uncles? Maybe you scare them up and get them to intervene?
Just a suggestion.
In my experience, being willing to file charges doesn’t help either. Flat-out telling the police “I wish to file charges and pursue this” results in the police doing whatever they feel like, which so far has been nothing.
I’m curious, why did you start this thread? What did you want people to tell you?
You’ve had some really good advice here, to which you’ve just responded with “It does not work like that people”
Were you hoping we’d all just say “Gee, that’s a really funny story, no, you’re so right, you shouldn’t get involved at all, don’t worry your pretty little head about it, you’re doing the right thing!” ?
Ok, so this little girl is already, at 8, terrified of her mother. Let’s assume you don’t call CPS and no murders happen, just more of this same shit. Can you imagine speaking to this same girl when she’s 18 and has finally been able to leave her crazy mother behind, and telling her “Yeah, I could have made a phone call, but I didn’t want to get involved or anything.”
Can you imagine the depth of betrayal she’d feel? Can you imagine all those nights she’s going to feel so incredibly alone, and desperate, and scared, and there won’t be anyone to help her because all the adults don’t want to get involved?
And let’s be realistic. I have an alcoholic mother about 1000 steps down the crazy-ladder from this woman, and it took a long time (ok, is taking a long time) to learn how to heal from all of that. Knowing that there were adults who know what was going on then, when I couldn’t really understand it, and who just didn’t say anything - that’s hard to take. This girl is so much more vulnerable - what are the odds she’s going to make it out unscathed?
I agree that a call to CPS is in order, but I think people are being too hard on the OP for not jumping right into help mode. When it comes to situations like this, if you’ve never dealt with CPS or trying to get help, you might not realize just how hard that is to do. Realistically, even if he wanted to jump in and save those kids from a bad situation, there isn’t much an outsider can do.
Let’s say he calls CPS tomorrow and tells them every detail of the incident. If CPS where he lives is anything like Indiana, what will happen is they will send a caseworker to their home for a “well child” visit. They’ll look at the kids to see if there are signs of physical abuse, look in the kitchen to make sure they have food, etc. After talking to mom, they might make her sign a “parenting contract” that just says she agrees to provide basic care and will call them if she needs help. And that will be about it and the file will be closed that day. Again, if it’s like here they probably won’t follow up at all and that will be that. And this is true even when people admit they do have issues. Unless it’s physical or sexual abuse, CPS is done.
It sucks, but that’s how it goes. I know all this because I have an autistic daughter and over the years there have been a few reports from people misinterpreting her meltdowns. Of course I’ve never abused her, but there have been times when I am very overwhelmed and told that to the caseworker, asking if they have resources that can help us, and never once have they followed up on our case.
So yeah, it’s a more fucked up system than people think. And as much as they may want to help victims of verbal and mental abuse, it just isn’t what they do.
So did you ever call CPS.
Has the boyfriend had another “accident” since then?