Oops, she did it again (dr. Laura)

The BBQ Pit
21

I would never exclude a family member with Tourette’s, any more than I would exclude someone for any other disease or problem. Part of changing people’s attitudes about disabilities is helping them see the person in a new light, functioning in “normal” situations. People will continue to have misconceptions about diseases that are kept hidden from “decent society.”

FWIW, I provided child care for infants at my wedding, but it was so short they barely had time to play! And it was more to give the parents a break than to keep the kids from disrupting the service. Being a parent, I am not bothered by the sounds a baby makes, it’s just not that big a deal.

22

… that big of a deal…

:: pounds head on keyboard ::

23

beagledave, I’m unsure of what your point is.

Take it easy. I did not say that kids with TS are themselves a misfortune. However, the fact that they have TS, and the attendant hardship that this illness brings to themselves and their families, is a misfortune.

24

this site has a good recap on what actually happened and Dr Laura really truly sucks.

http://members.home.net/tourettenowwhat/DrLauraTS.htm

25

To be completely honest, primaflora, I know very little about TS. A few years back, I did know a person who had it. He would not swear, but, if he wasn’t speaking he would make a barking sound every ten seconds or so. In certain situations, I can see this as being very annoying. Personally, I wasn’t that concerned with it, but I can imagine that others would find it disruptive at weddings, in classrooms, etc

To argue against myself for a second, a difference between TS and an infant is that an adult with TS knows and can be emotionally hurt by not being invited to the wedding. The baby doesn’t really care one way or the other what it’s doing.

But take a 5 year old, with TS or without. The world will not end if the child doesn’t go to the wedding. The kid doesn’t care and won’t miss it. But the parents will care. It’s the parents that get upset and the parents who will get hostile.

I agree, primaflora that your suggestion of talking to the parents first is much better than what Dr. Laura suggested. Certainly if there’s no real chance that an outburst would occur, it should be acceptable to bring him or her. But it’s not wrong to say that if an outburst is likely, the child should not be allowed to create a scene. And perhaps the same rule goes for adults with TS.

So yes, they’ll miss out on a number of special occasions. And no, it’s not a fair solution. I understand that. But unless you can find a way to accomodate the one without detracting from the enjoyment of everyone else, I think we’ll have to live with an unfair solution.

26

Dr Cunt didn’t discuss the pros and cons of having a person with TS at a wedding, she said :

That’s what the bitch is really about. The TS issue could easily be discussed rationally in GD (and would probably be a good discussion). The problem is Dr Cunt is her use of the concept of “punishing” others with her son’s disability. She also obviously has never known someone with TS or has any clue about it at all. (

Fuck her and the horse she rode in on.

Paraphrased from Dan Ackroyd:
Laura, you ignorant slut!

Zette

27

Well, let’s see…as has already been mentioned, there are varying degrees of Tourette’s Syndrome, as far as how it manifests itself.

There are NOT varying degrees of infant screams, wails, and shrieks.

I don’t know that “Dr.” Laura really scares me; when you get right down to it, she’s nothing but an ignorant little bitch looking to get her ass kicked. What really scares me is that she has maintained a sizeable listening audience.

28

**

At the risk of sounding like an ogre I think Dr. Laura has a valid point. It would be very disruptive to have someone screaming while I was trying to say “I do.” If the child, or adult, cannot behave in a manner befitting the occasion then they have no business being there. I got married in a very small chapel and any screaming child or baby would have been highly disruptive.

Marc

29

No, I would be annoyed if the baby started to act up and the mother didn’t take it outside. I’ve been to many weddings (including my own) where there were babies present. Thoughtful mothers or fathers leave with the child when it acts up and then return if it calms down. Some churches and theatre still have “crying rooms” for parents.

As for the Tourette’s case mentioned, there is far to little information given to give any kind of reasonable advice other than to talk to the mother or if he is old enough, to the sufferer of this affliction.

I personaly would want all of those who matter to me at my wedding. So he yells out. BIG FUCKING DEAL! Anyone who would not understand would not be welcome at my wedding. Our marriages are not judged by our weddings. But by what we do with our relationship with our spouse.

30

I don’t have any issue with anyone who chooses a child free wedding. I had one myself (except for the screaming baby who screamed throughout the service).

What’s pissing me off is that Dr Looney sees it as a good idea to not invite a person with a neurological disorder because they have that disorder. In addition to that, she gave wrong medical advice and a nasty opinion about mothers of kids with neurological disorders. If the kid does have coprolalia and is likely to tic throughout the service, then yeah, it’s probably appropriate that they leave. What isn’t appropriate is not to invite them because they might tic.

31

The good doctor hasn’t got a fucking clue and I can’t see how even her staunchest supporters can still be siding with her after this monumental error in judgement.

It’s just what we all need isn’t it? A radio host with a sizeable audience spreading misinformation and propagating negative sterotypes of persons with T.S.

She is beneath contempt. “Fucking bitch” is what Lola calls her and I agree.

32

Since this is the Pit:

godDAMN you for making me side with “Dr.” Laura! *

As a matter of fact, *)&+?&(+!!!
I${))+*)#_#*|||||\\?>%!!! ++V +)#W(+MW)($!
A few things seem to have gotten distorted here. I heard the original call to the program. The good Doctor of Physiology elicited the fact that the child in question was in fact prone to shouting out obscenities and that this behavior was not under therapeutic control. She made the point that screaming “Fuck you!” was not nice and that it was proper to exclude the child from the wedding ceremony.

On a later program (apparently after an entire chorus of "Fuck You!s had hit the fan), she conceded that an alternate plan would be acceptable (seating the child at the back of the wedding hall and evacuating him at the first outbreak of coprolalia).

I have to side with Laura S. here.**
It’s not unreasonable to want to avoid this situation at your wedding. Screamed obscenities are, well, especially intrusive, even if they’re not the fault of the screamer.

*not to mention the implicit admission that I occasionally listen to her show. You probably watch NASCAR races for the wrecks.

**even if she is a vicious, neurotic, vulgar, insensitive, spiteful, I-am-the-Old-Testament-and-I-will-smite-thee all-purpose bitch.

33

Now, now, Jack (and, to a point, Ender), people aren’t saying she was wrong to not invite a person with TS to a wedding (it’s a bad situation, yeah, but there’s no sense in making a bad situation worse). The problem that I (and, I’m assuming, several others) have with her behavior is the snobbish way she answered, especially the part about the mother wanting to “punish” the world.

THAT’s what makes her a bitch.

For the record, I’ve agreed wholeheartedly with Dr. Laura on occasion. After all, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

34

Uh Spoofe? Who the hell are the others with you in your assumptions?

I have a problem with what the dumb bitch said and the way she said. It is seriously not all right to single out one kid with TS. What makes her a bitch is the wrong info she gave out and the cruel insensitive way she advised the family to handle it.

I think that bad situation would be made worse if the kid is excluded. Unless of course we exclude every last damned person who just might make us feel uncomfortable. Fat old Uncle Arnold might fart, Silly old Aunt Betty might forget where she is and call the bridegroom by the wrong name…

35

My feeling is that excluding just the one kid is mean, and that’s going to cause problems in the family later on (it isn’t the kind of snub people forget.) I know I read somewhere - and am at this second to lazy to look it up - that it is more appropriate to exclude classes of people (No kids, no second cousins, no business associates, no nieces and nephews, etc.) and not individuals.

And the doctor’s response is just crap.

36

Hmm, I dunno. I agree that it would be hurtful for the kid if he’s excluded but on the other hand if he does disrupt the wedding he might end up feeling just as bad, especially if it’s not his fault.

If I were the kid, and I was prone to screaming out obscenities, I wouldn’t want to go.

37

How nice for all of us that our particular flaws in our physical or psychological make up are so much more easily hidden than TS.

What’s next? Wheelchairs kind of get in the way of the aisle, don’t you think? They might be a bit disruptive, so nobody with that sort of physical handicap gets an invite.

Then there’s Uncle Frank - a bit deaf - maybe he’d want things repeating to him - too disruptive. No invite.

And Ender’s right - no babies - they might cry. No babies thanks.

Funnily enough, one of the main participants in my wedding has TS quite badly. And yes, he was very anxious about whether or not he’d be able to control his physical and vocal tics through the ceremony in particular. And yes, there were some snippy comments made in advance about how well he’d be able to control himself, and how embarassing it would be to the assembly if he swore excessively. Tough shit, is what I said.

It was a beautiful day, unspoiled by anything that did or did not happen. The groom (yes the one with TS) did very well in controlling his tics, even though people were looking at him all day.

Nice going to deny someone part of a celebration, part of life, on the grounds that they may possibly at some point in the future, through nothing they can control, contribute to a moment of awkwardness. Me? I’m just adding a “me, too” to wring. God forbid anyone slightly less than perfect should be allowed to join in your celebrations.

I love my husband, the whole package - TS is part of what he is. Anyone who can’t accept that can go fuck themselves. You don’t want him at your occasion that badly? Fine by me, that was your one chance, don’t expect to be hearing from me again.

Sorry if this is less than coherent - being incandescent with rage and disgust kind of does that to me.

38

Charley has it right, IMHO.

people can choose to have whomever they wish at their weddings. The issue of infants, well, personal choice there, but one item of note - the infant would have no memory of the event, would not recognize the event as an important occasion at the time. The nephew in question would, and would also have knowledge that his presence was specifically not wanted I can’t imagine a bigger insult, especially since:

  1. other kids apparently were going to be there
  2. the only reason he wasn’t wanted was a condition beyond his control.

If the person in question was so upset over the idea of her nephew ‘spoiling’ her wedding, why chance having any child there? why chance having rude Uncle Bob? Weird Aunt Harriet who always wears the most outlandish outfits.

To specifically exclude one person in her family 'cause of his condition was heartless.

For those of you on Dr. Laura’s side, a few questions:

Should a person such as this be excluded from any/all religious services? parades? graduation ceremonies? what if he were the person graduating?

39

The Tourettes thing wasn’t the worst advice Dr. Laura gave. I’ve heard the worst advice Dr. Laura gave. A woman called in with a problem. She and her husband, who already had a 6 month old baby daughter, had taken in their 14 year old nephew, because his mother (her sister) was neglecting him and was a drug addict. One day, the woman came home early, and caught her nephew and a friend of his in the yard, smoking pot. So, she called Dr. Laura to find out what she should do. Dr. Laura’s advice:

“Send the kid back to his mother. If he’s going to break your rules, he doesn’t belong in your house.”

40

It may not be the worst call but it was pretty bad.

Dr. L told a caller that, because she was a teacher, she shouldn’t date. I would have been surprised at the requirement of teachers to be celibate, but when I was a teacher, I actually heard people say the same thing. (how do you do the rolly eyes?)

Blink