Open letter to the Vegan Bitch

The BBQ Pit
161

Oh, you invited my sister in law to dinner.

I have lots of veggie friends. And friends with all sorts of health related dietary restrictions - from ciliac to lactose intolerance to diabetes to odd kidney diseases and Crohns. Having a dinner party is always a challenge, but we’ve learned to do some pretty good buffets that can make most people happy.

The vast majority of my friends with dietary restrictions are good guests (and good hosts - their parties are filled with tasty food). They often eat before they show up “just in case” or bring their own cooler “just in case,” even though nearly everyone has gotten pretty good about having some veggie burgers in the freezer at all times - and plenty of hummus and pita bread and veggies on the counter. We’ve discovered the “spagetti buffet” - two or three different kinds of noodles (one made without wheat), a nice pot of vegan sauce. A bowl of fried veggies, another bowl of sausage - to augment the sauce of you want. Cheese and soy cheese. The Mexican buffet works well - too. Flour and corn tortillas, beans, meat, veggies, guac - and again, cheese and soy cheese. And the dualing pots of chili - vegan, meat, vegan extra spicey, meat extra spicy.

Then there is my sister in law. Who complains regardless of what you do. She never pre-eats or brings her own, but then complains regardless of how far out of your way you’ve gone for her. I’ve baked vegan cakes for the woman, from recipes she has provides with ingredients she has specified, going out of my way to the co-op to be sure everything was organic - only to have her complain when they turned out rather tasteless. If she isn’t complaining that she can’t eat the dessert I baked (which almost always contains a lot of chocolate and cream), she complains about the meat on the table (that she doesn’t need to eat) or that we haven’t provided a seperate grill for the veggie burgers (that’s what tin foil was invented for). Or that she simply can’t stand to watch the rest of us abuse our bodies that way (she can down an entire bottle of tequila in an afternoon while giving this lecture).

Now she has converted to Judism, so she can complain that my kitchen isn’t kosher. Oy! (I’ll extend a little credit, there may be other reasons, like being able to complain my mother in laws kitchen isn’t kosher - but since in the five years I’ve known her I’ve known her to have been Catholic, Wiccan and Buddhist - I’m not holding my breath on this being the end of her spiritual journey).

162

Precisely it - and thanks to lezlers and everyone else I missed who described the situation that occurs when you haven’t eaten meat in a while. It’s not a food allergy, it’s that I no longer have sufficient levels of the enzymes I need to digest meat. This is my understanding of the situation from my biology degree in college, and according to the microbiologist uncle of a veg friend of mine.

So when I do eat meat, or various “meat by-products”, I will get sick later on; it doesn’t matter if I know or not. I’ve had it happen from people who think that I’m just picky and a little tiny bit of poultry/broth/meat fat won’t do anything bad, or accidentally by my own choices (not reading package label, getting sick, checking label afterwards). And yes, earlier in my relationship, my husband’s parents went from accidentally including meat stocks/bits in sauces (they’re older, memory isn’t that good) to sometimes intentionally doing it when they thought I wasn’t eating “healthy,” until my husband had his father admit to him (as an “ah hah, she ate it and she’s fine” comment - when I was actually vomiting during that very phone call, before I heard the news) that he’d intentionally put some meat broth in a sauce and blew up at his dad, telling him that I’d been getting sick and it wasn’t a case of me being a picky eater, and he had to open up his mind and learn that I really, no truly, cannot digest meat products.

The worst thing is that my husband (and frankly I did too) suspected I was getting psychosomatically ill after some of the visits with his parents, as I didn’t always get along very well with his father then. Whether or not I got ill depended instead on what they served and what I ate - usually cream sauces hadn’t been “doctored”, for instance.

Anyway, I’ve been fine lately - usually my problems these days are at restaurants where I choose poorly.

163

I think I’m one of the few vegans that doesn’t like tofu. Which is odd because I’ll eat soy products - I just can NOT make anything decent from a block of tofu. I’ve tried, believe me, so I’ve just stopped buying it. I can’t stand wasting money on a food item that I don’t like and can’t cook - even if it is supposed to be one of those items that vegans like.

Ava

164

Exgineer,

Some hints, if you ever get asked to cook for a vegetarians:

A few people call themselves vegetarian and will eat fish or even sometimes chicken. Or they won’t care about beef broth, but won’t eat a steak. However, if someone is coming to your home and says “I’m a vegetarian” you should take ALL meat out of the menu - don’t cook with chicken broth, for instance. No fish, no chicken, no pork, no beef. That way you are pretty safe - and conforming to what MOST people mean by vegetarian.

If they say “I’m a vegan” you now need to remove eggs and dairy and honey as well - including milk solids, - which are often in store bought margerine, and often processed sugar (sugar in the raw in generally fine, but that white processed stuff I love sometimes isn’t). When cooking vegan, it becomes really important to pay attention to the labels, as milk solids creep into a lot of things you aren’t expecting them to. (BTW, meat products can creep in weird places as well too - McDonald’s French Fries for instance, are (or at least were) sprayed with a beef product - so you shouldn’t assume something is vegetarian unless you read the label.)

I’ve found it pretty easy to cook for vegetarians from my normal grocery store - even my normal cupboard - we are a meat eating family, but its generally only on the table once or twice a week - so its pretty easy for us to whip up something - I even generally have tofu in my fridge, being about as likely to cook with that as with beef. But if someone says “I’m a vegan” I’ve discovered its far easier to go to the co-op and ask there (should I care enough to cater). Someone there is generally very helpful in getting a good vegan butter substitute and help work out a menu.

My vegetarian and vegan friends tend to be more concerned about the “organic” quality of food as well - so the co-op trip generally works well to make sure the food hasn’t been sprayed with chemicals or bio-engineered. Or I buy organic if I know they are coming over (I generally buy organic for us as well, but I’ll let non-organic slide for a family meal).

Also, most vegetarians and vegans I know don’t like making a meal out of a salad any more than the meat eaters I know do. Pasta dishes work well, you can always serve the meat and cheese on the side (the spaghetti buffet I alluded to above). Fresh fruit for dessert - we do lots of cobbler type desserts where you can add or not add ice cream.

165

That’s just stupid.

I checked out the link - the whole point of the dinner was to re-create a meal originally served to the Tsar and his entourage in Paris in 1867. It was not a friendly dinner party, nor was it a restaurant. The chef in question wanted to recreate this dinner, and decided to make it a charity event.

Why the @#$@ would a vegan attend, knowing that he or she could not eat most of the food that was to be served? Did the person attend solely to be a pain in the ass and make all the sane vegans in the world look bad? Was the person just clueless? It makes no sense at all!

It’s sort of like a non-drinker showing up at a wine tasting, and informing the host that he/she could not drink alcohol and expecting the host to provide something else. WTF? It’s a WINE TASTING! Why did you come if you don’t want to drink wine?

My take on the whole vegan/vegetarian/lactose intolerant thing: If we’re talking about a friendly dinner where the overall point of the dinner is to get together with friends, socialize, hang out, etc., then by all means everyone’s dietary needs should be met. If the host or hostess is unsure of what is appropriate, or unable to prepare separate dishes, etc (because of time, money, lack of knowledge) then the guests themselves should pitch in and bring a dish that they can eat. Fine and dandy. Everyone’s happy.

Sometimes, though, a dinner party is about the food as well as the people. I like to cook. On occasion, I’ll find a recipe that works better as a dinner party - ie, a whole prime rib, Beef Wellington, a turkey, etc. I’m not going to cook an entire prime rib for me and Mr. Athena. On those occasions, I’ll often invite friends and family over. And damn right, if I invite someone over for, say, a turkey dinner and someone asks me to change the menu because they don’t want to/can’t eat turkey, I’m gonna say NO. Eat beforehand if you want, bring a dish to pass around if you’d like, just stop by for a drink - but if you choose to come to “Athena’s Meat Extravaganza” and show up expecting it to be vegetarian, well, sorry.

166

People, I’m sure that I’m totally missing the point, but since no one else brought it up, I will.

Inky, she’s married to your Best Friend, right?
Clue#1: Guess who wants you out of her ‘circle of friends’?

I really don’t think this had to do with any Vegan beliefs. If it did, unless she was very new to them, she would have eaten before or brought a vegan dish as a house warming present or at least discussed menu. But her appearance was Planned to fail.

I’m reading this as you welcoming them both to your home with no reservations (but not necessarily bending over backwards…but hey, its Your House). She arrived with an agenda of making a scene which she will beat over your friends head every time he wants to get together with you. Slowly, she will drive a wedge between you until you rarely ever see each other, and Then only when she’s not around. You also better believe that she’ll be ‘punishing’ him every time he does see you (whether it be denial of sex, causing scenes that ruin their weekend, whatever).

On the bright side, you’ll probably like his second wife a lot better…

167

Thanks, Dangerosa.

I guess the fundamental rule for success here is “ask a lot of questions.”

I have to admit that I’m surprised at how many of you encounter these issues on a daily basis. I had no idea it was so common. I suppose what’s actually odd is that I’ve never encountered it before.

I’m bookmarking this thread.

168

The other “traditional” way to handle this, in the old school, was to offer a zillion courses - read menus from the 19th century and you’ll see that 8, 10, 12, 14-course dinners weren’t at all uncommon. I suspect that a lot of those courses would end up untouched, but with the variety of foods on offer somebody would always find a few somethings to eat, despite whatever quack doctor was recommending.

A small hijack:

ANOTHER! For 20 years I was the only one I knew, and now I’ve met two in the last couple of months.

Is it all the nightshades? The others I can eat if they’re cooked, or very very ripe. And the most inconvenient part for me is that I can’t be around potatoes when they’re boiling or baking - I get asthma.

Anyway, your broader point is a good one: no one with a shred of courtesy wants to become the center of attention at a dinner party, either from demanding special foods or from keeling over into the soup. So you provide some warning, eat beforehand, and be very careful about certain things that can surprise you.

169

You’re right, Monty, and I appologize. I guess I just flipped out and didn’t think.

170

Well, I sincerely doubt that many vegetarians expect the entire dinner to be changed to vegetarian just for them.

If there was a salad with no meat in it, a side dish (flavored rice, whatever) with no meat products in it and maybe some bread or a baked potato which has no meat products (or no dairy for the vegans) then what else does a vegetarian need to have a complete meal? Hell, I eat just salads for dinner. Give me more salad! Or, salad and baked potato? Even better!

It doesn’t have to be all-or-nothing. Granted, some vegetarians are pains in the ass who don’t want to see anyone eat meat in their presence, but most of us are not that picky or anal. Just give us our salad, our dinner rolls or baked potato, some nice side dish, and the rest of you can happily feast on the meat dishes. No problem.

171

I have a bad feeling about this.

It sounds to me like your SIL is deliberately (not necessarily consciously) being a pain in the tuchus. By any chance, did your SIL complain about the conditions at the ritual bath when she converted?

I used to know someone who was on a spiritual journey, found Buddhism, and took to it like you or I would take to a TV show – they accepted some of the trappings, but never adopted the principles. Similarly, I suspect your SIL hitchhikes her way along her spiritual journey.

Of course, this is just a SWAG, actual milage may vary.

172

Well, Ben, my sister in law is a pit thread unto herself. Lets just say she is happiest when she is unhappy and is a spiritual searcher. She especially enjoys choosing spiritual paths where she can complain about “no one understanding” or “how discriminated against she is.” Nothing like choosing Judism to be able to moan about the historical persecution. (She was an expert on witch burnings when she was Wiccan, and, as a Buddhist, chose Tibetan, which allowed her to talk about persecution).

On the plus side, even my dear ever-suffering passive-aggressive and enabling brother in law (her husband) has gotten sick of this behavior, so hopefully, she will be the ex-sister in law shortly. At that point, I may open that pit thread in celebration. Won’t change the complexities in my kitchen when throwing a dinner party - as I still have a ton of friends with conflicting dietary requirements, but I don’t mind it if people aren’t being a pain in the tuchus.

173

**

My Evil Aunt is your sister-in-law?

Last Thanksgiving, she made turkey burgers, under the general notion that turkey is healthier than beef. She went on and on about how I wasn’t taking care of myself, then proceeded to get loaded.

sigh.

Robin

174

I just realized that in all my posts to this thread I never addressed the OP directly, so here it is:

She’s the sort of controlling person that wants to dictate what her SO does at every moment. That includes leaving little seeds in his mind so that she’s still in control when she’s not around. Inky- is a countervailing influence in this situation, so she wants to discredit him as much as possible. It ain’t about the food, it’s about the control.

Which was pretty much TVeblen’s point, but she indicated that it’s a sort of general attitude. I don’t get it. Why should I care what anybody else eats? Why would anybody?

Now. back to business:

I feel like I’ve left all of you thinking that I’m stupid. I’m really not.

In my last job, I had a coworker who was a vegetarian. Eggs were okay, but meat (including fish) wasn’t. We used to go out to “working lunches” just for a change of atmosphere, and she never really had a huge problem finding something she could eat. She just asked what was in what, and went from there. She liked cheese on things, if I recall correctly.

It’s just the “vegan” restrictions that threw me. I’ve never heard of this before.

175

Oh, God! Tofu! I shudder just thinking about it. I can’t imagine what it tastes like: it’s the texture that kills me. Just the thought of putting that white, slimey, jiggly crap in my mouth makes my gorge rise. Blegh!

176

Fish generally isn’t considered part of a vegetarian diet (at least in the USA).

I know there is some confusion about this, and I know some people who don’t eat any animal flesh other than fish sometimes call themselves vegetarian to simplify the concept for clueless people. But as has been debated and argued many times before, most mainstream vegetarian societies (in the USA, especially) think that vegetarians don’t eat animals. Since fish are animals, they don’t consider people who eat fish to be vegetarians. (“Semi-vegetarians” or some other term indicating that they mostly or kinda follow a vegetarian diet? Probably more accurate. And before anyone gets pissed at me, NO, I don’t think people who don’t eat fish are “better” than people who do eat fish. It’s a damned diet. Either it fits a certain definition, or it doesn’t.) For instance, I’ve never seen a fish recipe in any vegetarian cookbook, never seen fish on a vegetarian restaurant’s menu, (though I’m sure that somewhere, some hole-in-the-wall place thinks that “vegetarian” includes fish), never seen fish in a vegetarian frozen dinner or in any food packaged as “vegetarian”. The most mainstream vegetarian publication in America, Vegetarian Times, certainly does not include fish in their recipes.

That’s another reason why veggies have to be so specific about what we will and will not eat. I so often have to say, “I’m a vegetarian. No fish, no chicken, no animal flesh of any kind. Anything that started out as an animal, I don’t eat.” Because if I don’t do that, someone will want to feed me fish or chicken, and when I say I can’t eat that, they’ll argue, “Well, Cousin Wanda is a vegetarian, and she eats chicken! So it’s OK for you to eat it too!” Uh, sorry. It doesn’t work that way.

I’m sure vegans sometimes have the same problem with people trying to serve them milk or cheese. We must be quite steadfast in always being more than clear about what we can and cannot eat. And even then, it still doesn’t always make a dent. With some people, I can look at them straight in the face and say, “No fish, no chicken, no turkey, no this, no that” and they’ll still manage to not remember and get confused because I won’t eat tuna. I encountered one lady who didn’t think that fish were animals! I mean, what can you do with that? I have no idea what she thought fish were (mineral, vegetable?) but she seemed convinced that they were not animals.

177

Probably because traditionally, fish, for some reason, weren’t considered meat. (for example, Catholics eating fish on Fridays)

I don’t get it either, but what can you do?

178

BTW, does anyone know about the refined sugar thing in a vegan diet? Is that a vegan thing, or a “my wacky sister in law” thing? I noticed in the vegan cookbooks I have, refined sugar seems to be a no-no, so I suspect it isn’t just my sister-in-law. Is it like organic foods - not necessarily part of the diet, but a high correlation?

The thing that hasn’t been covered here, and since we are both bitching like a good pit thread should about clueless guests, the difficulties of being and feeding vegetarians, and educating, is that people choose a vegetarian or vegan diet for different reasons. Sometimes people do it because they don’t think its ethical to kill animals. Sometimes people do it for health reasons. Sometimes people do it because being vegetarian leaves the smallest ecological footprint. Sometimes people do it because it annoys their mother. Sometimes people do it because they don’t find meat appealing. Sometimes its for religious reasons. Sometimes its a little of any number of reasons above, or reasons I haven’t heard about. Don’t assume that just because someone is vegetarian, they are a PETA member (I have a semi-vegetarian friend who hunts) or into a healthy lifestyle.

179

Since that’s the case, Dangerosa, I’m going to say something I had trimmed from my previous post:

Just what was the Rabbinical court drinking when they approved your SIL’s conversion?

If she’s searching for something to complain about, she should never have gone Jewish, and the Rabbis should never have let her convert. The Jewish religion is about peace and joy, especially the peace of Shabbat and the joy of festivals. (The Jewish people, OTOH, have been persecuted ever since Pharaoh Raamses II, if you believe the chronology.)

I think your SIL would feel spiritually fulfilled if she became an orthodox Puritan. You know, the Christian sect that apparantly believed that happiness was a sin.

The sooner she hitchhikes to the next stop on her spiritual journey, the better.

180

Refined sugar, according to a letter from Dixie Sugar that the animal rights club at my college had posted to their cubicle, is filtered through charred cow bones. Don’t ask me why. The letter did assure the reader that the cows were from India, so you knew they were treated well. And no, I’m not making that last bit up.

I’m one of those “vegetarians” who eats fish. I know I’m not technically a vegetarian, but I sometimes forget (I was vegetarian for 10 years) and call myself one – and it’s easier, when I’m telling someone about my dietary needs, to say I’m vegetarian but will eat fish.

I also genuinely and sincerely love tofu. What’s wrong with the texture? It’s similar to egg white or to a curd cheese. If you marinate it and cook it in a flavorful sauce, it’s fantastic stuff. To each their own, I guess.

Daniel