Opinions Sought: How To Control Large Groups of Children

In My Humble Opinion
1

I work in a museum, and part of my job is to lead school tours. It’s “That Time of Year” again-- field-trip season, and my boss got a grant which allows all of the third-graders in the county to come to the museum. We generally get them in batches of 100, splitting them up as evenly as we can between three guides.

Most groups are great. The kids are curious and excited. I get floods of questions and get to teach them a lot about the past. I have fun with these groups.

And then there are the groups who seem to have been given massive injections of stimulants before they came through the door.

Yesterday was one such group. The kids were wild-- yelling, laughing, and talking in their Outdoor Voices, scattering every which way as something caught their attention. I became a border collie, not a tour guide, chasing them back into the herd and barking out requests for them to please be quiet-- other visitors were in the museum. Teacher was busy with a cell-phone conversation, or series of them, which began the moment she stepped through the door and continued until they climbed onto the bus to leave. Her aid stood there watching the chaos with bovine placidity. While I was trying to answer the questions of the kids who were interested, I’d have to cut off in mid-sentence and chase after a kid who was wandering away. My voice was hoarse by the end of the afternoon from my “Excuse me! Everyone, please! Be quiet! Indoor voices!”

I have no children of my own. My experience with kids amounts to the tours that I give and occasional baby-sitting for relatives. Even when I was a child myself, I didn’t spend much time with other kids, prefering the company of adults. Add to this that I’m very young-looking. I have no “Mom Authority” which helps the other guides keep their kids in line.

What to do? (My boss vetoed my suggestion of cattle prods.) How do you regain control of a mass of excited eight-year-olds?

2

What sort of museum do you work at? What exhibits are you showing the kids?

3

It’s a general history museum. We have a variety of stuff that kids like: cars, guns, dolls, dioramas with moving vehicles, rooms set up to look as they would have during various time periods . . . kids usually love the place.

When I give a tour, I don’t drown them in dates and “boring stuff.” I talk about the gross aspects of history-- having to use chamberpots, not getting to bathe every day, criminal justice in the time (whipping posts) funerals and stuff like that. I try to make history entertaining. Nothing turns off a kid faster than a discussion of early statehood politics.

It’s probably not boredom which is making them act this way-- they’re excited and there’s a lot of stuff to look at scattered everywhere. It’s natural for them to want to wander off and look at what caught their attention and to discuss it with their friends. (And when kids get excited, they get noisy, and in a noisy environment, voices naturally raise, creating even more noise.)

4

A technique my father used when he was a Scout leader (also my sister uses the same technique as a teacher of young children) is the yellow card, red card rule.

I imagine to implement this into the museum you would start by telling the kids that museum has basic rules; blah, blah blah. Make a point that are expected to have fun but the rules should not be broken.

Breaking a minor rule = a yellow card.
Being a little bastard = a red card.
2 yellows = 1 red.

Then explain that if they are shown a red card, you will get their phone number of the school and phone their parents and tell them to come along to the mesuem.

Tell the children that if this has to happen the child will be required to stand infront of his class and explain to mum/dad/both why he has been banned from the museum for life.

of course you dont have to ban a kid for life, or even phone its parents…just show the occasional yellow card and they behave.

good luck

5

Sneak some Ritalin or a shot of Bourbon in their milk and cookies before the trip.

Nyquil gel tabs in the gummy bears work too.

6

Oh, Lissa, I’ve been there. I used to be the education director at a small museum. I really miss doing children’s programs.

First of all, the teacher’s behavior was unacceptable. Just because they’re on a field job doesn’t mean she’s not on the job. Do you send out letters to teachers who schedule field trips? If not, I would suggest doing so, laying out the behavior guidelines and expectations for students (and teachers!). In the letter, make sure to mention that you expect teachers to help maintain order among the students (I’m sure there’s a nicer way to put it). We also used to let in one chaperone free for every ten students, plus the teacher and teacher’s aide. So with a group of 30 kids, you could expect to have 5 adults as well, who would (hopefully) help with group dynamics.

Before you take the group into the museum, do you discuss ground rules? Keep them basic: no running, indoor voices, no touching, raise your hand with a question. I always explained that these rules weren’t just for kids, but for all visitors to the museum. If a group is as unruly as yours was, will your director back you if you simply tell them, “I’m sorry, but your behavior is unacceptable. This tour is over. Please go outside and wait for the other groups to finish”?

What kind of programming do you do? Frankly, a straight-up museum tour can be really boring for kids. We had about a dozen different programs that teachers could request. One of our most popular programs was “History Mystery.” I would put out ten artifacts from our teaching collection (butter paddles, a button hook, etc), break the classes into groups, and ask each group to write down what they thought each artifact was. Students were encouraged to handle the objects, and I told them to be creative with their guesses. After the students had done that, we’d get back together, hear their guesses, and discuss what the objects really were. Kids loved this program. It was hands-on, interactive, involved group work, all stuff they like.

Finally, kids can smell fear and uncertainty. Remember this is your place and you’re in charge. Don’t yell (it’s a sign of weakness), but working on developing a clear, loud, authoritative voice.

Good luck and have fun!

7

I think in the case you described the problem was the teacher. You should have given her a red card… Really, though, she is where you needed to direct the problem. In no uncertain terms, tell her she needs to take her kids outside, get them under control, then bring them back in. Or, failing that, take them back to school.

Your value-add to the situation is your expert knowledge of the museum. You might try dressing the part a bit more, if you usually dress casually. It will be helpful with the teachers at least as much as with the kids. They seem to have mistaken you for a tour guide at a theme park.

I also agree with sending the ground rules in advance to the teachers.

8

I’m not sure if this would work in a museum, but one of the things we do at the camp I work at is clapping. If a group is out of hand, the counselor says in a slightly louder than conversational level voice, “If you can hear my voice, clap once.” clap “If you can hear my, voice clap twice.” clapclap** By three claps, even the kids in the back are paying attention. It may be too disruptive for a museum enviroment though.

I really like **Chew Barker’s ** idea. I think that could work really well too. Good luck!

9

Lasso?

Seriously, the first call out should have been to the teacher. “Excuse me, but we will need your assistance with YOUR students.” The second call should be to the school’s principal. “We’ve had such a pleasurable experience in the past with students from your school, however, we’re a bit concerned by our most recent experience.”

I would second the one free adult with X number of paying students. Maybe state in a letter prior to the visit that there is a requirement of having X number of adults per X number of students. I know some museums limit the number of student allowed per school at any given time.

Remember, you and your museum are there as a learning experience for the students. It is not a given that they should be there. Your museum has implimented a series of rules that anyone would be required to follow, so why should the students (regardless of their age) be any different?

10

Well, I guess a whip and a chair are right out then too. :wink:

But seriously, what other people have said. First, that teacher should not have been yapping on her cell phone - she had a job to do and she wasn’t doing it. (As an aside - do you have a policy already in place about cell phone use in the museum? If not, you might want to add that to your list of what is and is not acceptable behavior for all visitors).

My husband is a teacher and the very first thing he does every year with new students is give them a list of of expectations for behavior in the classroom. The kids know exactly what they can and cannot do and what the consequences are if they break the rules. That would be useful in this case too.

When I was a kid, I remember an out-of-control classmate being sent to sit on the bus with the bus driver and wait for us.

11

i suggest a nice bottle of Chloroform and a rag… :wink:

12

We do. We also call them before each tour to make sure everyone’s on the same page. We ask that they have the kids seperated into x-number of groups, and if they’re a school that pays admission, that they have the money collected, but some schools seem to think that compliance is optional. They usually are fine with the money thing, but rare is the school that actually does the splitting into groups before they arrive. Since most schools only give us an hour, precious time is wasted in the process.

I’m amazed by some schools’ lack of organization. I just got home from work, where I gave another tour. This time, the tour was late, which made us have to crunch the tour to fit everything in, and the teachers told us the wrong departure time. (The bus driver was throwing a fit, demanding that we round up the kids because he had to be back on time.)

We do. We always give an introduction before we start out, pointing out that we wear white cotton gloves so that we don’t get fingerprints on the artifacts and asking that they not touch, remain quiet and stay with their group.

Old people are just as bad as unruly kids. “Oh, honey, I won’t break it,” one old woman said dismissively to me when I objected to her picking up a Sevres vase. They open drawers and go wherever they please. (“Staff Only” signs do not stop them unless the door is locked, and they have no compunction about unfastening a barrier rope if it’s blocking them from somewhere they want to go.)

I do have that power, but I’ve never yet used it. Unless a kid’s behavior was completely uncontrollable, violent or destructive, I wouldn’t.

Usually, kids enjoy it. We’ve got a lot of neat stuff on display, and we try very hard to make the tours as fun as possible, not drowning them in boring dates.

We have programs like that, too, but we don’t usually have a lot of time on school tours. Those are our “weekend programs” that kids sign up to join. We do some demonstrations during the tour-- we have a “pioneer cabin” that the kids tour, and we show them how butter and candles are made, and how to operate a spinning wheel.

That’s my problem. I certainly try, but I’m naturally a quiet, somewhat shy person. Not to toot my own horn, but small groups usually love me-- I get constant compliments. And I usually do really well with school groups. It just the unruly ones which give me trouble because I’m not good with correcting people.

You really can tell a difference in schools. There are some schools which have better groups than others. One elementary school is an absolute joy to have because the kids are always inquisitive and obedient, and most are at least well-policed by their teachers. But with some schools, we groan to see their name on our schedule because we know the kids will be wild and the teachers inattentive. (Home school groups are usually hell.)

13

Do you have expected or required adult:child ratios for group visits, i.e. a minimum number of teachers & assistants to accompany the groups? If not, maybe suggest that this should be a condition of accepting such bookings. From your description it sounds like the school had two adults for thirty young children, which I would consider thoroughly inappropriate. Obviously these things vary a lot from place to place, but in the UK that group would have at least four adults supervising. And these have to be with the children throughout the entire trip, so you cannot be counted as one of them. (e.g. imagine if one of the children was suddenly taken ill…the teacher has to contact parents, the assistant stay with that child, and you’re stuck with 29 kids…)

14

Practice sudden homicidal rage. Seriously.

You’re voice and mannerisms already tell the kids your personality- shy, helpful etc. As Burundi said, if this person yells it’s a sign that they’ve lost control. You need to cultivate a second persona. When things get out of control, that person yells. The quiet, helpful person is gone. Instead, the kids find themselves faced with a drill sergeant who fights wolves for fun. This person never hurts the kids, or makes threats of harm. They don’t have to. Their very presence is terrifying. When the kids fall in line, take a minute or two to become yourself again. The kids will be terrified of seeing that other person again. Fear will make them behave.

With this approach, ninety percent of the time you don’t have to do anything. Fear of that other ten percent gets the kids to behave so that they only have to see the nice lady.

15

I used to be a volunteer tour guide for the Nationality Rooms Program at Pitt. I like kids, but damn, I hated school groups. They usually weren’t the least bit prepared for what they were going to see, which meant they couldn’t really make sense of it in three minutes per room, which meant they were bored. If the teacher helped keep order, I was appreciative, but that made it feel like even more of a waste because we were down to about ninety seconds per room, if we were lucky.

One time when the teacher didn’t help, I stumbled across what worked for that particular group. I was in the German Room, which is modelled on the Great Aula at the University of Heidelberg. The aula has drawers under the raised lecturer’s platform and in built-in wall cabinets, to hold maps and other items the lecturer would need. The drawers at Pitt are all fakes, however. I mentioned this at the beginning of the presentation of that room, when they were briefly quiet, and thought that part at least might have sunk in. But when I was done, one kid yelled out:
“Hey! What’s in those drawers?”
“Spiders,” I replied.
“Spiders?”
“Yes. Spiders. Giant spiders. They come out at night and suck the blood from bad children. Any other questions?”

I can’t explain why, but they were dead quiet for the rest of the tour :smiley:

Unfortunately I don’t have anything useful to offer. But in my experience at various times as a school kid, tour guide, chaperon mom, and substitute teacher, it seems to me that preparation is everything. I’ve watched a group of fairly small kids looking at the polar ship Fram in quiet awe and asking intelligent questions because they knew the background of what they saw, and a group of kids the same age squirming while looking at sparkly Christmas decorations in the Nationality Rooms, because they had no idea what they were looking at and why. Unfortunately the preparation is completely out of the guides’ hands, and too many schools these days demand field trips but give no time in the schedule for preparation.

16

When I first saw the title of this thread, my initial reaction was “Cattle prods and duct tape”, maybe you shouldn’t ask your boss about duct tape beforehand.

Here in Fort Worth, we have an area called Log Cabin Village. It has a half a dozen restored log cabins, a blacksmith’s workshop, a grist mill, and other pioneer necessities. Docents card and spin fibers, grind corn, dip candles, and otherwise explain the facts of pioneer life. The yarn, cornmeal, and candles made were available for sale the last time I went to the village (about five or ten years ago).

Back on to the subject, I think that the best you can do is insist on a high adult-to-child ratio, which does NOT include the museum guide. This should be a sliding scale, I think, with fewer children per each adult at younger ages, just like daycares and schools have a maximum number of children per adult. I’m sure that some kids enjoy the trip, and not just because it’s a day away from the schoolroom.

17

I can’t insist on anything. I’m the low chick on the totem pole.

We always request a certain number of adults per group, and many schools comply by asking moms to come in and help. However, if a group arrives where the division will mean only one adult (plus the guide) per group, we still allow them to go on the tour, or else the* kids *suffer for it, and they’re the most important factor in all of this.

And in reality, even the worst group only amounts to a pain-in-the-butt. We’ve never had any kid try to break anything, and we warn other visitors to the museum that groups of kids will be coming through. (We have had a handful of visitors storm out in anger, but most people endure until the kids leave.) It’s an hour of chaos with a bad group, and very frustrating for those of us who have to deal with it, but its not worth making the kids sad and upset if we turn them away.

Secondly, this is an open program, meaning any school in the county can come in for free. I don’t know the specifics of the grant-- maybe we’re not *allowed *to turn any school group away.

Thirdly, my boss is really big on the “community good will” thing. He would be very stressed if he thought a group of 100 dissapointed kids would be telling their parents that the musuem rejected them.

18

Then make it clearly not your fault. If you make it clear that there are rules you have to follow, then the guilt falls on teachers and parents who aren’t doing their jobs, or on the kids who aren’t behaving. This has another benefit. If the kids don’t see it as ‘the museum lady is gonna punish us’ but as ‘if Bobby doesn’t start behaving, he’s gonna get us all punished’, then the children who are behaving will control those who aren’t.

The military has been doing this since pretty much the dawn of recorded history. Unfortunately, this technique only works if the majority of the kids want to see the exhibit.

It has some other variations. With the group whose teacher was talking on a cell phone rather than doing her job, you could have explained the consequences to her. If she remained on the cell phone instead of controlling her students, you would give a brief speech explaining to them that since the teacher was not doing her job, you could not do yours. Then, expel the group.
It would never come to that. The teacher would know that would result in parents hearing “We got thrown out of the museum cuz teacher was talkin onna phone and not doing her work.”. So, she turns off the phone and does her job.

19

The first answer that came to my mind was shock collars.

Since it seems that the majority of your problems come from those groups with bad teachers or supervision, why punish the kids? Just put the shock collars on the adults. :smiley:

20

The first answer that came to my mind was shock collars.

Since it seems that the majority of your problems come from those groups with bad teachers or supervision, why punish the kids? Just put the shock collars on the adults. :smiley: