Tarquin didn’t even need Elan. He must have realized that all he needed to do was stage a dramatic moment for Nale to appear in and he would.
This is old news, but I’d missed it until it was mentioned on a different forum so I’ll post it here. There’s been a delay in the new book thanks to some unspecified-for-legal-reasons problems with their now-former vendor. The new expected shipping date is the second week of June.
“Unexpected delays” takes on a new meaning when dealing with things like print editions of webcomics.
To paraphrase,
“Wow… So can you guys believe the book was delayed like that??”
“Yup.”
“Sadly, aye.”
“I find it to be entirely in keeping with what I know of the business.”
“No, no, I mean, did you expect it to be delayed in that exact manner?”
“Oh! No, not at all.”
“Nae.”
“I find it to be entirely in keeping with what I know of the business.”
For non gamers, the two feats Elan is considering are both terrible. A moderate bonus on a situational save which is very unlikely to come up even once in a whole campaign, and done better by a first or second level spell? OR a speed bonus to an action that’s not likely to be performed even once in a whole campaign, that is ALSO done better by a 1st level spell? However shall I choose!
(Endurance has some value for medium-armor wearers, because it lets them sleep in armor, which is useful if you’re GM is a 1e style bastard. Elan, of course, doesn’t wear medium armor)
Funny thing about using a Bard’s Break Enchantment ability to cancel Flesh to Stone . . . despite the fact that it’s the example given when the power is described, it doesn’t work. It only works on spells of 5th level or lower . . . Flesh to Stone is a SIXTH level spell. Proofreading fumble!
I agree that pretty much all the examples of ‘silent’ Sneak Attacks probably weren’t Sneak Attacks at all. You need flanking, surprise, an adjacent ally (if you’re 10th level and took Opportunist) or a cheeseball spell like Grease to let you make a Sneak Attack. Shooting a fleeing (Mr Scruffy) or attacking (Rogue Army) opponent isn’t enough by itself.
I think it’s more likely the Giant missed one or two shouts than that they’re optional. Like most of the other gamest things, they’re there so we can tell what’s going on, not as part of a realistic RPG simulation.
–
Wait. What’s gimpy about that build? You lose 1 point of average damage over a bow rogue (trivial) lose some range, (trivial, Sneak Attack is capped at 30ft) and do 2x on a crit instead of 3x (no big deal, Sneak Attack doesn’t multiply) and your weapon won’t enhance your ammo (this is bigger, but the Magic Weapon spell and blunts it somewhat. Returning weapons blunt it more, depending on how harsh your GM is with them) In exchange, you can pop into melee for double sneak attack when flanking allows. And Arcane Trickster is the gold standard for DMG prestige classes, only Archmage is on the same level.
The mage BAB is pretty darn sucky to have when your main form of damage is hitting stuff with a 2-handed penalty and Rapid Shot, and that’s even with my godly 22 dex.
The mage hitpoints are also pretty darn sucky to have when your *other *form of damage is to stab people in the kidneys. As in, in range of their keen large size scythes, to give an example completely absolutely totally at random.
So far, most of the boss fights we’ve been in have seen me either end on the ground in a couple rounds, or held/suggestioned (stupid Will saves !). Then again, it’s also partly due to the fact that our meatshield is a combat reflex/mobility/spring attack guy with a polearm, so whenever I go for a flank the rest of the mobs tend to gang on me rather than take umpteen attacks of opportunity charging him. It’s getting better now that I’ve got ways to disappear though. Least when I’m not being held/suggestioned/confused (darn Will saves !)
The Arcane Trickster is also spread pretty thin on ability points since he does or tries to do so many things: Int for spells and skills, Dex for AC and to hit, bit of STR and CON to help in melee, bit of Charisma to bluff and be generally lovable… Even with the higher than usual point-buy we’re running with I’m struggling a bit there.
I’ll say one thing though: Arrow Eruption with sneak attack’d fiery arrows ? Darn good room clearer 
Large Keen Scythes? I HATE it when that happens. And that’s before the Undead show up. And the Constructs. And the Oozes. And the Plants . . .
So that comes to what, -2 BAB and -10 HP under a pure rogue? After you’ve maxed the prestige class out, of course, it’s less than that otherwise. (Unless Pathfinder does it differently than vanilla 3.5, which it probably does) In exchange for 10 levels of wizard spell advancement? That seems like more than a fair trade to me . . . The lower skill points do suck, but you can cover some of that with low level spells.
If you count the mage levels, that’s -3 BAB, -13 HP, for for 13 wizard levels. Again, doesn’t seem too bad a trade.
I’d argue the pure Rogue has all the same problems, with fewer options to mitigate them. Very slightly less squishy, still has skill shortages, and just as MAD, if he wants to be good at skills. And he’s got pretty much nothing BUT skills. Also a considerably lower will save, unless he invested heavily in Wisdom.
I’ll give you the darts are a worse idea than I was thinking. But that’s mostly because AT’s have easy access to the glory that is touch attacks spells + Sneak Attack*. For a pure Rogue, the difference is much smaller.
–
- “I’ll use Impromptu Sneak Attack, and . . . hey! I hit with all three Scorching Rays! That’s, ah, 30d6 fire damage. Not bad for a second level spell! Wait. Hold on, you don’t want to do this! PUT THE GUN DOWN!!”
Scorching Rays? One of my characters was a Tiefling Arcane Trickster whose favourite trick was to sneak attack people with Meteor Swarms.
That’s one cool thing Pathfinder does. Undead and Constructs ? Not immune to sneak attacks any more. In fact precious few things are. Makes pure rogues much more viable.
Well, it’s not a bad trade once you’ve got those 10 AT levels under the belt, or even just the first 3 for the impromptu sneak attack and heavy duty buffs. But those 3 levels of mage and the first few of AT are painful as your physical attacks hit a wall of AC whenever shit gets serious, while your magical pizzaz is still quite limited.
At least when you start out as a useless wizard, the stuff you face is equally useless and small time spells like Sleep or Grease make a big difference. Even Shocking Grasp kills its kobold but good. Lamias with class levels are relatively unimpressed 
There again PF gives a rogue a bone - they get Rogue Talents every other level which are kind of sort of like the bonus feats Warriors get, only more rogue-specific. Some help with the skill whoring, some with the sneak attacks, some give higher mobility, higher saves/limited immunities etc… It’s pretty neat, really.
Still not quite enough to compare with mage spells, but neat
Anyway, Nale in a wifebeater, huh ?
Quoth Ura-Maru:
I think that just means spells that explicitly have a clause about Dispel Magic not working, like Bestow Curse. Flesh to Stone doesn’t have such a clause, because Dispel Magic just isn’t even relevant for it due to it being instantaneous.
It’s a dual-advancement prestige class that only advances one class’s primary feature. A rogue PrC that gives full Sneak Attack but only 4 skill points per level is like a wizard PrC that gives full familiar advancement but only half spell progression. Sneak Attack is supposed to be a rogue’s last resort, not a first resort: When things go right for a rogue, you never even enter combat at all.
It’s really not: a human Rogue 3 / Wizard 5 / Arcane Trickster 10 with Int 18 will still have 203 skill points, while a human Rogue 18 would get 273. That’s more than enough to max out a bunch of useful skills, especially when you’ve got Level 8 spells to fill in the gaps.
So the rogue player’s goal is to shut the fighter out of the game?
If you want to look at it that way, but in practice, the rogue will never manage to be successful enough at that goal to actually shut out the fighter.
I’m not sure what you mean by that. I mean, sure, conceptually a solo rogue would never have to fight, he could just sneak by everyone and everything (that doesn’t have true seeing or retarded spot checks).
In practice however, a rogue has a posse. That posse needs to come with him/her to put the thingamajig in the whotsit, or to help him kill the Snarblefarst. That cleric in the full plate is not sneaking past a deaf, dead ogre. Thus, combat will inevitably ensue, and the rogue better pull his goddamn weight.
And the sneak attack really is all the Rogue has to brag about, in or out of combat. A ranger will have comparable sneaking and manoeuver skills, along with better straight up melee & ranged abilities and a token pet. A Wizard can handle the trap baiting, be it with raw skill (high Int and a few expendable feat slots) or simply summoning Polish mine finders. A Bard or Sorcerer can handle the talking and the UMD as well as him. Skills, in general, can be split among the party. Even more so in Pathfinder, where there are no class skills, just a class bonus to skills.
As for combat, compared to that sneaking ranger the rogue will have worse BAB, worse HP, worse feats (unless we’re talking PF), probably worse stats too - after all, he has to put points in Int and probably Cha. The ranger only needs Str/Dex/Con, he can rely on magic items to provide enough Wis for his gimped spells later on.
The rogue’s only saving grace is the sneak, lovely lovely sneak. It’s pretty much what defines the Rogue IMO, and what he trades all of that shit for. He’s crap in combat BUT give him an unsuspecting mage/priest and a poisoned dagger, and he’ll swing the fight further than a Fighter or Ranger could ever hope to.
Others can sneak, others can disable traps, others can open locks, but it’s tough for anyone but a rogue to do all at once. If the rogue sneaks ahead and takes the evil necromancer’s spellbook without his knowledge, or the cleric of a dark god’s unholy symbol, then things will go much better for the party when it comes time to smash face. Others could reach the Macguffin, but they’re likely to alert the villain in the process. The rogue is contributing to the fight, he’s just not contributing during the fight.
Elan isn’t nearly as dumb as he makes himself to be (well, sometimes).
Y’know, it’s a really good thing that the person he’s running off to find happens to be a high-level cleric.
And I really hope that we’re not meant to take the title too seriously, as that would imply a rather drastic change in Haley’s, shall we say, vital statistics.
Hey, Haley’s Latent Bisexuality hasn’t had any good lines in months.
N tnbbye h pnfr dwly. (I kissed a girl once.)
DT, DT, udfy ckhw dwly! (OK, OK, more than once!)
Not those vital statistics! It’s just that Tsukiko prefers her partners to be a little thinner.
Okay - a lot thinner.
Okay - skeletons. Or at least biologically challenged.
Don’t overthink it. Tsukiko is simply the hottest surviving evil NPC.
Xykon’s pretty hot with his pimp crown.