paedophilia Your thoughts, please.

In My Humble Opinion
41

gum, that is scary.

I could potentially feel very sorry for the chap you’re emailing - he didn’t ask to have those desires and is not acting on them. (God, I hope not!) Just imagine how terrible it would be to feel only those sexual desires, and not any desire for any fellow-adult. To be unable ever to have a lover, a relationship, a family… Can it ever be cured? Sexuality seems so solidly set; those “curing homosexuals” things never work (nor are they valid, IMO). Poor guy.

But what is very, very scary is that he might be rationalising it into something possible. I’m not sure from what you’ve said - did that article come from a reference he gave you? Or was that you trying to understand and stumbling on it?

42

I’m sorry to hear that.

But are you suggesting that every child in that situation hates it? Three or four is awfully young, but it seems to me that at least once in the history of mankind, it’s likely that a prepubescent child and an adult have had a sexual relationship that the child didn’t hate at the time. My question is whether the child would still be scarred if s/he didn’t hate what was happening, and wasn’t treated as a victim or expected to play that role.

Then how can you say “Some kids reach [emotional maturity] before age 13 or 14. Some NEVER reach it.” if you have no way to know whether any given kid is emotionally mature or not?

The phrase “emotionally mature” is meaningless if there’s no way to know if it applies to anyone.

Not the ones I’ve met. When people refer to 18 as being “legal”, IME it’s because 18 is the highest age of consent anywhere in the country. If she’s 18, you don’t have to worry about which state you’re in.

Also, it’s illegal to travel across state lines for the purposes of sex with someone younger than 18 - maybe that’s what you were thinking of.

Hazel: Excellent points.

43

I know what it means. At least, in theory.

Nobody is 100% mature. Life is a long maturation process, which ends long before you figure it all out.

Still, some people mature faster than others. Some get “stuck” at a certain level, then blame everyone else for their problems…or, get stuck on the semantic details. Such as, because you can’t define a word, or measure it in quantitive form, then whatever that word describes cannot exist.

…see what I’m driving at?

44

OK, how about this. You say most teenagers are not emotionally mature. I say they are. How can we know who’s right?

So those who disagree with you are immature? Cute.

45

cajela That was me, trying to understand and searching for articles. I didn’t pick a good one, huh.

I find it scary and sad too. He never talked about sex, you know. Just his love for young girls.
I’m not that naïve to think ‘love’ will never become sex, though.

I ask all of you: What do you suggest society should * do* with paedophiles?

46

Social worker here- specializing in at-risk teens

My experience in working with sexual predators has been that the choice of children as sexual objects is a matter of taste and preference, usually a result of being preyed upon themselves as youngsters. Think of it as any other inclination- some of us are attracted tall, dark people, others like blond hair and blue eyes, etc. Incarceration does remove the offender from society, chemical castration has been shown to reduce a sex drive, but neither erases the predilection.

Solution? We haven’t found one yet. But I fear for your emotional health. This is society’s burden as a whole, but not your task to stop him alone.

…" And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

Take great care not to feel ugly because of your association with this person-your act of kindness and concern saved a life. To reform such a person would require professional and medical help-but if you feel some responsibility to pursue this and attempt to protect the innocence of a nameless young girl, then perhaps you could relay one or two of the heartbreaking stories that SDMB members were generous enough to post (with their permission of course). It is possible that this person feels that the only repercussions of his actions would be legal action- if he has any power to reason at all then he may benefit from understanding how much his illness can harm another.

In saving this man from suicide you have done an honorable thing. Many mental illnesses are treatable, some curable. His plea for help may be the opening you need to direct him to professional help. Most likely he was also *molested and needs counseling for that reason as well.

*(While it is true that many molesters were victims themselves- this is often learned behavior-most people who were molested do not become molesters, or are attracted to molesters-this is one of the most misunderstood myths about survivors of abuse)

47

Sorry for previous long post- outlet for my frustration in working daily with the same sort of people.

Tthanks to those of you who shared your tragic experiences- very kind to bring unpleasant memories to the surface just to aid another. Humanism at it’s best here.

I am very sorry for your broken childhood- and very awed by your ability to recover from adversity. You are good people.

48

I have no idea about every child. I just wanted to say that I knew what was happening was wrong long before I learned it was wrong.

I also don’t know what to do with these people. My father never went to jail and at this point I don’t think he ever will. I didn’t feel dragging myself through a he said/she said kind of trial would really be productive. Especially with the crappy way the system treats the people they are supposed to protect. All I wanted was to not have him in my life anymore! Once I got to the point where I considered he needed punishment the statute of limitations was passed. Besides no one in my family believes me so he’d have many ‘character’ wittnesses and I’d have me.

I also hate when people say ‘I can’t help it - I was molested myself as a child.’ I didn’t like what happened to me and certainly do not want to make anyone else feel like that! Also I have zero attraction to small children as sex objects. I also get angry with people who look at me like an abuser just waiting for opportunity when they learn of my past.

49

Tanookie, no one with intelligence or a heart would be so callous as to assume that any part or particle of you (or any other victim/survivor) is bad because of what was done to you.

Talk shows and the like have made pop psychology available to the masses; and those that dwell excessively on that nonsense tend to make ignorant statements/judgements. Avoid those people at all costs and continue forward with your honest and open character.

There are too many people in the world who need your encouragement and experience.

{much peace to you}

50

I think we have to try to separate our condemnation for the act from trying to understand/accept the inborn urge. Labelling it as sociopathy or other “mental illness” just decreases the chances that people who have these desires will come forward to get help and support. Many will react with “Why should we support these scum who might prey on children” - this is putting the punishment before the crime. There are many cases of unexpressed paedophilia out there, or “future paedophiles” just beginning to be aware of their desires - if they know it’s wrong, I think they deserve respect for their restraint, and support for their continued restraint.

What else can be done? Well, thinking there is a “cure” is probably wrong - there’s no “cure” for any other type of sexual predilection. Basically, they just have to deal with it.

Look at it this way - a fulfilling sex life is not a “right” - plenty of people don’t have a satisfying sex life, for various reasons that don’t involve desiring illegal sex acts. Life isn’t fair.

I’ve heard of cases where the paedophile finds an adult relationship with someone who has “childlike” qualities: androgenous body type, passive personality, etc. Nothing wrong with this, if it suits both partners. Asexual adult relationships are a possibility too.

The important thing to convey to them is to not have unsupervised access to children, and certainly to be discouraged from having children of their own under any circumstances. Avoid temptation, and surround themselves with supportive adult relationships. There’s more to life than sex - they can channel their “child love” feelings into other areas of life, and try to be more than just the sum of their desires.

Can society accept it on those terms? Now I’m asking.

51

Mr2001, like tanookie, I can only speak for myself. While my experience at age 3 or 4 was nothing like hers, I hated it as well. No one treated me as a victim that I can recall. I’m not sure that I even told anyone at the time. It has left marks, though it was about as minor an experience with child molestation as you can get. I’m one of the lucky ones, but it’s damaged me anyway.

I’ve never met anyone who said they didn’t mind being molested.

52

Ah, I see what you were driving at, now. For some reason, I thought you were arguing the other side, which is why I got belligerent. Sorry about that.

I agree with you…or at least, I agree that teenagers have more potential for emotional maturity than we give them credit for, especially here in America.

However…and this is the point I was trying to make…there is no way for a THIRD PARTY to look at a teenager, hold a stethoscope to his or her brain (or give them a written test, or whatever) and say, “Ok Betty, you are mature. Michael, you are not. Jacob, you’re ok. Sheila, you’re not.” See what I mean? “Maturity” is not a thing that can be measured like a heartbeat. Perhaps, in a thousand years, we will have the technology. But I doubt it. Too damn complex.

Ok, herein lies the problem. The sex offenders you are dealing with are but a small segment of the pedophile population, but they do all have one thing in common…they have the criminal mind. And these are the only types of pedophiles that have been studied, in depth. Therefore, it skews the data BIG time.

And pedophiles/sex offenders are not the only type of people who see others as “sexual objects” – I’ve dealt with enough heterosexual men and women, and some homosexuals as well, who are attracted to adults their own age, to see how some of them “objectify” their objects of desire. In other words, they have only their own interests in mind, and they don’t care one bit if the man/woman they are using for sex gets emotionally hurt in the end. Which, of course, makes them “predators” as well, though not necessarily in a violent or traditionally abusive sense.

The difference? Well, obviously there is a HUGE difference between adults and children, in how they cope with things that happen to them. Adults in general are far more better equipped mentally to deal with someone who has violated them. Plus…well, ALL sexual & romantic relationships are damaging. Even the ones with best intentions. Ever had a romatic relationship with someone your own age, where you did NOT get hurt, somehow? Didn’t think so. (And that reason alone is enough to protect ALL children, or at least prepubescent ones, from sexual exposure by adults. They simply aren’t equipped to handle it yet.)

Plus, the objectification of adults is not looked at as a bad thing…hell, check out a porn video store, or any reality TV show on FOX. Sexual objectification fuels a MASSIVE industry, far more massive than the industry that works to demonize pedophiles. There’s lots of money to be made, by lawyers and therapists and made-for-TV movie scriptwriters. In the end, that’s what it all boils down to. Money.

53

Oops, I hit “submit” too soon. What I wrote does sound rather callous, so I have to add this part:

Yes, children do get victimized. Quite a few people in this thread have told their stories, frightening ones. And I have sympathy, though I’m not good at showing it in print. Certainly, I agree that the parent/child type of abuse, esp. sexual abuse, is 100,000% immoral, wrong, sinful, whatever you want to call it. And it’s easy for the victims to lash out at a segment of the population and label them as evil and inhuman as their abusers, and heck, I sympathize with that as well. I’ve done it myself.

So I hope nobody gets personally offended by my arguments, because that’s not my intention. And if you were offended anyway, then I apologize. Like many controversial subjects, emotions often ruin the debate, and this particular subject clearly has a deeply emotional element that’s off the bloody chart.

54

Purely anecdotal here, but of those pedophiles and child molestors I have known/am related to, all of them were themselves victims. The vicious circle started back in the days after WWI. I don’t know what caused its starter to do as he did, nor the other line of abuse, so to speak (one was the live-in renter-type person my grandfather and his sibs got to endure, and the other one was my grandfather’s wife’s mother). Without getting into extreme specifics, most of those molested/victimized did not continue the circle. But a few of them did, and one of them had ten kids.

55

It would be an ideal world if all the people who had a particular fetish or interest could be matched up with those who complement their predilection. I am quite certain there are consenting submissive females with youthful figures who would be equally grateful to find an older dominating sort. But there is an enormous difference between fetishes shared by consenting adults and the shameful abuse of power and authority.

I am sure that victims of abuse would shudder to think that any predator who has taken the innocence of a child should ever be in a happy relationship. The very idea of an abuse survivor passing his or her offender on the street happily hand in hand with a youthful companion is horrific. I am firmly against rewarding deviant behavior with a suitable love match. I would rather science find a way to redirect their desires toward a more socially appropriate outlet. Or insist that they subscribe to an asexual lifestyle, as was mentioned before.

56

Psalex
Of course no-one wants an active padeophile to get away with it and live happily ever after. Horrible thought.

There are several threads running in parallel here. The one that I believe is being addressed by the “perfect match” posters is the plight of the paedophile who knows his desires to be immoral, illegal, and repulsive, and therefore does not act on them. That one, and only that one, deserves sympathy, being a decent person with a (probably incurable) mental disorder.

57

Agreed, Cajela. Please refer to the beginning of Gum’s post which included a link to a twisted justification for pedophilia. It does seem that the person with whom she was conversing was remorseful enough to consider suicide. You are correct, the mentally ill do deserve medical attention and rehabilitation- however-the man in question seems to have tried to justify his prediliction for young girls to Gum.

My concern now is with Gum- unless she has chosen social work or psychology as a career, she has taken on a burden that most would prefer to ignore. I have only kind words for her and the survivors who related thier experiences at the risk of thier own privacy.

Evidently Gum was successful in saving a life- now the next step is to decide which direction to point the offender if he continues to seek her attention. My recommendation as a social worker and theraputic foster parent is first and foremost to seek medical attention and counseling. But many people do not see that as an option. If he continues to seek counsel from his friend on the web, I still strongly suggest that he read some of the stories of abuse victims made anonymous by deleting names and urls.

Peace be with you, Gum- and from the numerous responses to your post, it appears you have a caring network of friends to draw strength and ideas from.

58

I am sure that victims of abuse would shudder to think that any predator who has taken the innocence of a child should ever be in a happy relationship.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to be so “sure” of what someone else might feel in advance - especially if they are seeking your counsel. Forgiveness is healing. More so for the one who forgives than the one forgiven. Unless you have a time machine, there’s really no other possible goal in therapy. Forgiveness is encouraged for the benefit of the one victimised.

I am firmly against rewarding deviant behavior with a suitable love match.

Rewarding? Even convicted murderers are not restricted from seeking or establishing relationships. Unless you are advocating putting all paedophiles to death, it’s unrealistic to expect (demand?) that they should never be in a future relationship.

In my earlier post, I was speaking of people who might never have acted on their urges. But even a formerly active paedophile would be better in a stable adult relationship than condemned forever. How would this unforgiving attitude promote rehabilitation? Or more to the point here, prevention?

I would rather science find a way to redirect their desires toward a more socially appropriate outlet.

They tried that with homosexuality, in the bad old days, remember? It doesn’t work that way.

My suggestions weren’t meant as a disregard for anyone who has been victimised. Apologies if that wasn’t clear.

But an unrealistic or harsh attitude benefits no one - and is especially harmful to potential future victims of paedophilia. Condemnation doesn’t prevent anything, and it certainly doesn’t encourage future paedophiles to attempt to redirect themselves into society - within the legal boundaries of possible relationships.

59

Context. Please read the entire thread thoroughly before you make blanket statements. It is my job each and every day to help repair damage done to abused and neglected children. I speak from experience, not idealistic rhetoric. This thread was meant to provide comfort and resources for a board member concerned with helping another, and not to split hairs. Pedophilia is an ugly, shameful crime, and possible remedies differ depending on whether you are speaking to an offender, a victim, or a concerned third party.
No one has been condemned; and no one has been judged to be above reform. I have no desire to argue with you, and feel that this discussion has gone far astray from the original topic; which is to provide the OP with the support and ideas that may ease her mind and aid in the reform of a potential offender. She has done an excellent job in researching the topic and requesting opinions of peers to aid in her task. To be blunt- this is not our fight; this is her burden. If you have other issues with my words, please click on the e-mail link and let me have it privately. This is not the place for criticism- someone here needs a variety of experiences and suggestions to make a very important decision about her next step.

60

I had read the thread thoroughly.

Your presumption that I am not speaking from experience is incorrect. I don’t put a “professional hat” on when I post to an opinion board, unless it’s requested in the OP. From what I’ve read, my experience exceeds yours - that is irrelevant. It doesn’t invalidate your perspective at all. All opinions are requested here. The OP was asking for thoughts, not qualifying credentials.

I have no desire to to “argue” with you privately, and I have no personal issues with you. I was commenting on your post as worded. A difference of opinion is not necessarily a “fight”, and frankly, it’s not your place to decide what opinions would be in the best interests of the OP.

This is a public opinion forum. If you cannot bear commentary on your opinions, then perhaps you should not post them? Normally, I would apologise if I misinterpreted another poster. But your post was not ambiguous, and I was responding to direct quotes.

I am sorry that you interpret a difference of opinion as a personal affront. It doesn’t have to be that way. I appreciate your desire to support victims of abuse; I’m just offering my own perspective on how that might be served. Peace?