It seems to me that the strident feminist lacking sense of humor started it and provoked the response she got. Nobody here has started picking on her for no reason but her own posts which are full of stuff which is simply not a reflection of reality as much of reflection of her perception of reality. When you post stupidities you can expect to be called on it.
I can’t generalize about the strident feminist in question because I’m not familiar with her posts, sailor.
I personally thought that
was perhaps a tad over the top.
That said, when I was a young nubile wenchling, so to speak, I found the unwarranted sexual comments that I elicted just by walking down the street were more than a little annoying.
In fact, when I lived in LA and worked in a blue jeans store on Hollywood Blvd, I got so pissed off at being constantly asked what I’d charge for oral sex, that I grabbed one cretin by the arm and insisted that he accompany to a police officer to repeat his request.
It does get really old.
I didn’t feel unwelcome in the places I went - Madrid, Valladolid, and Barcelona. Madrid and Barcelona were particularly fun, and I had a chance to attend Madrid pride and to visit Sitges (a village near Barcelona that is basically the European equivalent of Provincetown).
However, I went alone (thereby not resolving the question of walking hand in hand), and wasn’t out to my host family in Valladolid. (For those following at home, it’s a medium-sized and rather archly traditional city, the capital of Castilla-Leon; there are two gay bars and a magazine called Lo que hay, “what there is.” The scene was very warm and friendly in the bars.)
I would say the tolerance in Madrid and Barcelona is well comparable to the large Canadian cities. I’m not aware of open hostility of the American-religious-right variety in Valladolid, just a lack of development and awareness in the greater community. I can’t, of course, speak authoritatively.
I am not a woman, but I did see a few incidents of street harassment that I would have been very surprised to see here. I did have to pretend to be one girl’s boyfriend in order to stave off an especially enterprising advance.
Sailor - very amusing. It is fun watching what happens when native speakers get falsely corrected on their usage, isn’t it? (Oddly enough, I’ve never had a speaker of another language correct my English. I wonder why that is?)
As for the encierro – let’s just say I’m glad I spent this time last year in central Castilla-Leon rather than, say, Navarra.
What exactly is the running of the bulls about? Does it have to do with bullfights?
Well, I haven’t been in Spain since 1988, but I was definitely harassed more often then than I would have been at home (although I was harassed in NY and Chicago on plenty of occasions as well). I just chalked it up to looking like I felt out of place in my surroundings (which I did, being 19 years old and living out of the country for the first time). Looking like one doesn’t belong is frequently an open invitation to creeps, especially when one is 19 years old, female, and physically unimposing (at the time, 5’1” and 115 lbs.)
Harassment is also a function of surroundings, though. In NY and Chicago, the only times I was harassed at that time were where one might expect it, such as walking around 42nd Street near the Port Authority (a much, much seedier area back then than it is now), or in the far East Village on the border of Alphabet City. In Spain, I was harassed much more often, but then I was hanging out in surroundings where I wouldn’t normally have been hanging out if I’d been at home, such as in bars with groups of other women. I’m sure things in Spain have changed an awful lot in the past 15 years, but then unescorted women in bars and clubs were definitely risking inviting all sorts of unwanted male attention, to a much greater extent than would have been the case in the U.S. at the time.
Definitely my near-date rape situation was one I would have handled better if I’d been in my own environment; I would have picked up on the schmuck’s drunken social cues and inappropriate body language, and I wouldn’t have been of legal drinking age, so things might not have escalated to the point that they did…alcohol definitely fueled that scene (for him, not for me; he kept buying me drinks, and I kept refusing to drink them, so he ended up drinking his and mine, so he got quite drunk after a couple of hours). If I’d been at home, we couldn’t have been hanging out in bars to begin with, plus I would have been more familiar with my surroundings and would have walked out on him long before I did.
The bulls run through the streets in the morning to the bullring where they will be part of the bullfight in the afternoon. So, yes, it is connected in the same way that the trucker taking them to the bullring wold be connected. It is just a way to get them from point a to point b. The bulls just trot down the street and toss a few in the air. Nothing more. The thing is that people equate this with the bullfight when it is a totally different thing. Personally i do not care for bullfights and the running of the bulls seems like one more crazy thing young men do. Every country has its own things and this one seems to me no more harmful than others.
The bulls run through the streets in the morning to the bullring where they will be part of the bullfight in the afternoon. So, yes, it is connected in the same way that the trucker taking them to the bullring wold be connected. It is just a way to get them from point a to point b. The bulls just trot down the street and toss a few in the air. Nothing more. The thing is that people equate this with the bullfight when it is a totally different thing. Personally i do not care for bullfights and the running of the bulls seems like one more crazy thing young men do. Every country has its own things and this one seems to me no more harmful than others.
Ah, gotcha.
Eva Luna, you bring up some interesting points. When you are abroad you are generally in very different circumstances than when you are in your home country. Many things change.
I think the experiences of exchange students generally mirror ech other. Exchange students tend to be of a better social class than their host families so, their new social circles will not be the equivalent at home. I have seen Americans in Europe criticize their host families and surroundings on this account but exactly the same thing happens with European students who go to the USA. Many come back shocked by “American life” not realising that is not the equivalent social class they are used to.
Also, as you say, being a foreigner in any place makes you much more vulnerable in many ways and more likely to be the target of unwanted attention. I get my pocket picked regularly in China just because I am a foreigner. A young woman who is away from home and from her family has more liberty but also is more open to new friendships and more likely to be a target of unwanted attention. That is true anywhere in the world.
Some years ago I rented a room in DC to a young German woman who was doing an internship for a senator and you should hear about her experience. Of course, it did not help that she liked to go around with a T shirt and no bra. I kept telling her DC is not Europe but she was also a bit of the feminist militant type and just insisted it was her right to dress as she pleased. If you ask her about her experience in the USA you’ll get an earfull but part of it is that she was a foreigner and a foreigner unwilling to adapt at that. She went back to Germany convinced Americans were barbaric and primitive. Which is a shame because I loved to see her come out of the shower wearing just a wet T-shirt. . . Uh oh, better change the subject 
BTW, the bulls run enveloped in a pack of oxen. As long as they are in the pack they feel safe and will not attack so the oxen are there just to create the pack and the bulls will just trot in their midst. As long as it is a compact group they will just trot along but if a bull happens to get separated from the group that is when it becomes extremely dangerous.
Regarding the bullfights, personally I do not care for them and would not mind if they disappeared but I think it is very simplistic to see it only as a celebration of cruelty. I can understand that if you cannot get over the cruelty, then it is just disgusting. If we had to kill our own meat many of us would be vegetarians because we are not used to the sight of killing but, unfortunately, it is part of life. Obviously, many people can see beyond the suffering of the bull and can appreciate the art and tradition which others cannot. While I do not enjoy bullfights I think those who present it as merely a barbaric entertainment which is only the torturing of bulls are showing their ignorance but I can understand and agree with those who say it is not worth the suffering inflicted on the bull and there are plenty of Spanish people who think like that.
Ha ha ha! Like a giant ham§ster ball! That’d kick so much ass!
Now the one that frightens me is the fiesta (forget where it is… La Rioja?) where they lay the newborn babies on the ground, and then a fellow in a devil suit runs up and leaps over them.
What if he trips?!
never heard of that one but La Tomatina sounds like fun although I suppose the anti-everything crowd might consider it an inadmissible waste of food which could go to feed the hungry etc. I wonder if women can participate in that one.
For those of you not brave enough to run with the bulls, I give you…
From CNN…
It’s not til the end of August, so you all have plenty of time to make your travel arrangments. 
Sailor, the running of the bulls IS connected to them being killed the very same afternoon. It’s not just a transportation mode.
I’ll condone the Pamplona running of the bulls the day they let them live afterwards. Not sooner.
If some idiot wants to see if he can outrun a mad bull through narrow streets, great. Just don’t kill the damn animal for acting on its natural instincts.
If I kick a dog repeatedly and it bites me, I don’t think it deserves to die. I’d come to the conclusion that I’ve pushed its buttons one time too many.
I saw footage from it on the Travel Channel and man, it looked like a complete blast. I really want to go!
Well, that is your way of seeing it. You can have bullfights without running of the bulls as, indeed, most are. I guess the trucker who transports the bulls to other bullrings is just as barbaric? And the guy who fed the bulls and raised them? Anyone connected with the bulls in any way?
if you are against bullfights that’s one thing but to extend the responsibility of the bullfight to things tangentially connected to it is a bit like what PETA is doing which, frankly, I find silly.
If you are against bullfighting then criticise bullfighting directly but the running of the bulls does no cruelty to them and trying to link it directly to the killing is like PETA comparing eating animals with the Nazi extermination camps.
You can have,and, in fact, do have bullfights and/or running of bulls separately from each other. trying to lump them in the same category is like trying to say any sexual intercourse is rape. It is hyperbole which undermines rather than reinforces your argument.
All right. Could you provide me with a cite that shows a “running of the bulls” venue that doesn’t result in the bulls being slaughtered in the end?
The only one I’m familiar with is the Pamplona venue, and they DO kill the bulls over there. I’m prepared to be enlightened on the matter, but if you can’t provide a cite for a “harmless” running of the bulls, your above post is completely baseless. To say nothing of the analogies you use. Any intercourse is rape? Ye Gads.
Coldfire, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of small spanish towns which run bulls and cows every year which are not going to the bullring to be fought. I have no doubt those animals are, eventually, slaughtered for their meat, but they are not used in the bullring. I am in a hurry right now and have no time to search but common words would be “vaquillas” (small cows), “suelta” (release). . . believe me, running of bulls and cows and oxen in the street is a tradition onto its own. Most of the small towns could not afford bullfighting bulls anyway so they will run smaller, less dangerous, animals.
I had even heard of goats being used in jest but never of sheep. I guess the budget cuts mean we will soon see the running of the rabbits or something.
By smaller, less dangerous animals I meant, younger bulls (novillos) and cows (vaquillas) which are not apt for bullfights and which are less likely to harm the public.