[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
They are elderly (in their 70’s) and if they’re anything like my dad, they are not OK with shacking up. Which may be what’s at the heart of this dispute for all I know.
[/QUOTE]
I would be willing to bet that you’re right. It isn’t about the money, it’s about the percieved immorality.
The situation implies dual roles for the people involved, parent/child and landlord/tenant. Consciously or not, when it suits them they’re likely to play according to whichever role furthers their aims at the moment, flip-flopping ad nauseum. This is why many say you shouldn’t enter into a business relationship with a family member.
[QUOTE=doreen]
it wouldn’t bother me enough to mention it to friends.
[/quote]
I think it started with, “Our son refinished the driveway… drive by and tell us how it looks.” Or, “He put up new windows, what do you think?” You or I would take a picture on the digital camera and send it, but my father, like John McCain, does not know how to operate a computer, and neither do they. Then, of course, it became a discussion of the girlfriend moving in, etc.
Technically my father is my landlord. This leads to repeated silly arguments along these lines:
Skald the Rhymer: “Here’s the rent check, Dad. Go ahead and cash it this time, okay.”
Father the Rhymer: “Oh, you don’t need to give me any rent. You came over and mowed my lawn last week, so we’re even.”
StR: “No, we’re not. We agreed on $800 a month, and there’s no way mowing your half-acre is worth that much. Here, take teh check, and for god’s sake cash it.”
FtR: “Well, I need to give you a break for the work you did, though. Plus your came over and made me dinner eight times this month. So just tear that one up and give me $100.”
StR: “Dad, will you just take the money like we agreed? We have a lease and everything. Now today’s the first, so take the money.”
FtR: “Look, I don’t need your money. Why don’t you put it in the bank or, even better, buy your wife some jewelry. I saw a nice brooch over at Goldsmith’s.”
StR: “Damn it, Dad, take the money!”
FtR: “Boy, you curse at me! I don’t need your goddamned money!”
StR: “TAKE THE FUCKING MONEY! YOU NEED IT FOR YOUR PRESCRIPTIONS!!!”
FtR: “NO!! I DON’T NEED YOUR CHARITY! NOW GO BUY A PRESENT FOR YOUR WIFE!!! OR GIVE IT TO THE CHURCH! ALSO, START GOING TO CHURCH!!!”
Kim the Rhymer: (sighing) Your neighbors called the police on us again, Mr. Rhymer. I’m going to go sit in the back while you two handle this."
I think that the son should probably have asked to move the girlfriend in out of politeness but I don’t see why she should have to pay rent if no expenses change for them. What if he did ask and because of their beliefs they said no? I wonder how much rent they think would be fair for her to pay, should they allow her to stay?
Now, five years seems like a lot of time for renovations - in a way - but when you start talking about buying all new windows and installing them, repaving the driveway, re-tiling the floors it could work out more evenly than some might think. All of these raw materials may cost a good sum of money if the son is buying quality materials. It sounds a lot like they are constantly trying to keep tabs on him - maybe they don’t actually trust that he is doing a good job there - having other people drive by and take pictures? Why doesn’t he send them pictures and receipts for the materials so they know what he is spending on their house. Presumably he would be doing a good job (particularly if he is an only child) because one day that house may BE his and he would benefit from his own hard work.
This situation would not work out well with my mother and stepdad because we have communication problems without having that sort of tie. It wouldn’t be worth it for me. It sounds like this guy and his parents have similar issues. Everyone in the situation probably feels like they are being taken advantage of a bit and the son probably feels like his parents don’t trust him, always having people come over and take pictures of his work. Maybe after five years the whole deal needs to be renegotiated.
[QUOTE=Jaade]
I think that the son should probably have asked to move the girlfriend in out of politeness but I don’t see why she should have to pay rent if no expenses change for them.
[/quote]
Why would any landlord charge more if more people live in the house? But they do, that’s how it generally works IME.
From what my dad said, they weren’t going to do anything about it, they were just bitching, so it’s not an issue of “allowing” her to stay. They just think it’s rude.
No, my dad isn’t taking pictures. No one is taking pictures AFAIK. If a person who knew how to use a computer was involved, then the son could just take digital camera pictures and send them via e-mail, but my dad and his friends do not use technologies like that, so they ask him if he drove by, did he see it, how did it look? Maybe the son takes regular pictures and gets them developed, then mails them, but I don’t know.
Speaking as a landlord, I’m sure he must be sending them receipts so that they can itemize the expenses on their taxes.
I’ll respond from a property managers viewpoint. In most states, (I would have thought all of them, but seemingly not New York) I can limit the number of tenants in my rental to the original number specified in the lease.
Additional tenants do cost the owner more in the end in wear and tear which can be considerable over a period of time.
I would never enter into an agreement like the son and parents in question, without a written rent agreement, laying out specific expectations.
In my experience, it’s nearly always a bad idea to trade rent for renovations by the tenant, especially long distance where you cannot see the performance or quality of workmanship.
At this point I think it’s up to the parents to call a halt to the current situation and hire a local property manager to get the son under a formal rental contract. If they want to continue to have their son make improvements, have him put in a written bid for the work to be done and have it inspected before taking on another project.
I’ve been renting to two of my own children and their families for some years now. I didn’t get into the situation willingly, but fact is, I pretty much control a good portion of the rentals available in my area and they would have a problem finding a decent place otherwise.
I treat them as just another tenant and explained from the outset that would have to be one of the conditions.
There are drawbacks though. I don’t feel that I can just stop in and say howdy, because I won’t disturb any tenant without adequate notice. I also do frequently hire my children to work for me in some capacity, but I always require a bill and pay them by check for the work they’ve done.
I feel like the parents got what they deserved for not signing a formal lease agreement with the son in the first place. People aren’t mind-readers. If you want them to know what your expectations are, you have to actually state them. Preferably in writing.
I can totally understand how, after living in a very informal arrangement for five years, the son got the idea he didn’t need formal permission to have a roommate (platonic or otherwise).
This is why, when my sister sublet from me, I had a very long, detailed written contract for her about what her rights and responsibilities were. It headed off about half a dozen of these sorts of misunderstandings.