I agree with all the responses so far. You did well, except for trying to reason through the tantrum. For the next trip to the mall, take Diogenes’ advice above. Inform your kiddo ahead of time what is going to occur: “We’re going to the mall to buy shoes, but we’re not going to buy any toys.” You can also make a contract with him to earn something small: “If you behave at the mall with no crying and no asking for toys, you can earn an ice cream when we’re done.”
I think you did fine.
I also agree with Pyper…but try to give short, easily understood answers to the kid. He’s only four and may not understand everything, including certain concepts like “earning a visit to the bookstore at a later date if you’re good now” the way an adult does.
Non-Parent: You did the right thing. Also, one thousand thank-yous for removing him from the store while the tantrum raged.
I agree that overlyverbose did things great. My temper-tantrum throwing 5 year old gets similar treatment. He gets three chances to shut it down or we’re out of there. Those are up he gets unceremoniously hauled away.
I can’t see giving a child a reward everytime they have to accompany me on an errand. It is just expected that they behave appropriately.
If I am making them do something especially tedious (for example, if we are shopping for shoes and it takes four stores to find the right ones), I might say to them when I see that they are getting tired/bored/annoyed what we are doing that is fun when we get home or stop for a snack to break it up but they in no way believe that their behaviour has triggered this.
I can’t imagine a world where my kids think they are the ones in charge. It would be bedlam.
I also echo the ‘thanks for removing him’ sentiments. I see too many parents continuing with their shopping/errands when their kids are beyond reasoning.
I don’t have kids (did my fair share of babysitting, though) and I think the only thing OP is doing “wrong” is talking & reasoning the kid through this whole long, logical discussion. It’s too much for most 4-year-olds, and that goes double, triple, when they’re in the middle of an emotional meltdown. It just turns into “wah wah wah blah blah blah” after a while.
Otherwise, overly, you’re a good mom. Your son probably was seeing if he could outlast you. I’d bet he saw a friend of his pull the same stunt and saw it work.
And one more voice saying “thanks” for taking a screaming toddler out of a store. 'Preciate it.
I’m also a big fan of the Dio-style small bribe. One Hot Wheels, or something from a gumball style machine, or a small Icee. Something like that.
Our ultimate cure was to start QKid on an allowance, although not until he was a bit older. We give him a couple of bucks a week, and now the response to “Can I have?” is always, “You’re welcome to buy that with your own money. Did you bring your wallet with you? Do you have enough money?”
Oh! Yeah, that makes sense, thanks! 
I am in a long running battle with my oldest twin over tantrums when she doesn’t get her way. First lesson, she has a lot less tantrums when she is well rested. I’m really trying to get her a lot more sleep.
Second, keep the reasoning very short as in a phrase or one sentence.
Level setting before going to the store is great advice that I need to do better on.
I think you’re doing a great job.
I grew up on a farm, so grocery shopping in the city was an outing on weekends. My parents would always buy me a treat like McDonalds or a toy when we went, so I got the expectation that when I went to the city, I’d get a treat.
This continued into my teenage and even adult years. I have a hard time not giving into the temptation of a treat. My friends who grew up in the city grew up with the concept that every time they went grocery shopping with their parents they wouldn’t get a treat because it was so normal.
So yeah, I’m on your side. You can’t make the outings about them, because they’ll continue with the habit even without you around. I still do it now - grocery shopping on Saturday means I can pick up fast food for supper!
I’d say you did great, though I wouldn’t have given my kids so long to put the bus back! Every parent ought to carry a screaming child out of a public place at least once, or else they’re not doing it right.
I’ve left the grocery store (once we left before we even went in, that made a huge impression), the library, the bookstore, you name it. Usually it only takes a couple of times before the message sinks in, and then life is easier.
This is what I would do. Its an excellent opportunity for him to practice appropriate behavior, actually–since the meltdown was so recent, he’ll remember and it will connect better.
I often remind my children about the difference between “need” and “want”.
At that age, though, I did get a lot of traction by stating, before we left the house, “I’m going to the store for X, Y, & Z”. At the store, if they came, I state, before we go into the store, “We’re here for X, Y, & Z”.
If they then ask for “A &B”, I can say again that we’re here for X, Y & Z and not A & B. Often that results in a “oh, ok” moment - though not every time. In general, setting expectations before the event works well with my children. I get a lot more cooperation by saying “Leaving in 5 minutes” rather than “Let’s go now”. They do well with a bit of mental prep time.
Personally, I hate the count down thing, though, and don’t do it. If I say no - it means now, not after I count to ten (or three). Doesn’t mean they don’t get a warning if they’re about to overstep, just means I’m in control of that warning - not them.
This can be a battle to win, or a war to go on pretty much forever. “No toys today”, grab the toy, shove it back on the shelf and settle down for the tantrum. This is being a good parent. No deals, no buying stuff for him for the next few outings, gear up for several more tantrums and wear a sweater! You know you could have bought him the toy and he could still throw a fit, he could be tired, hungry, testing the boundaries because Dad’s not there or just getting his tantrum skills fine tuned.
It’s really stressful for you I know, I used to watch my daughter writhing on the floor and think the following, it’s crucial that you get that nail in now.
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
Thanks for all the great replies so far! So, it sounds like make it shorter, fewer warnings, fewer opportunities for argument. And I think I’ll go to the closer store this weekend. I really don’t see the benefit of going to the other store, except putting off the inevitable. I can’t exactly avoid the mall forever because he might have a fit.
It’s funny, but tantrums have been one of the things for which weight lifting has been the most helpful. It takes a lot of strength to hold on to a wiggly, shrieking kid while driving a stroller.
I agree with the gist here. You did very well, but make it shorter. 20 minutes is way to long for a little guy to feel like maybe mom’s not in control here. That’s a scary 20 minutes.
I’d also add one other piece of advice: swap the order of the bookstore and the snack. If you have even an inkling of a notion that a 4 year old is tired or hungry, it’s important to address those things before window shopping. Low blood sugar makes *me *want to throw a tantrum, and I’m 35! 
I’m not a parent, so take what I say with a grain of salt. (This is what I’d do with a dog or a horse)
First - don’t set them up for failure. If you know they’re tired or need a snack, don’t try to squeeze in unessential stops. Stop for a snack or go home and do the bookstore on another day.
Second - No means No. No bargaining or counting or explaining. And allowing a tantrum to go on for 20 minutes just gets the kid (or animal) more wound up. I once took 5 nieces and nephews to the local science museum. We were the only people in a small auditorium watching an animatronic cow talking about nutrition, except for one lady. The kids were running up and down the steps. I told them if they didn’t stop now, we were all going home. The woman turned to me and said “How dare you talk to those precious gifts from God like that!” and used some profanity. The kids started crying. When the lady left the auditorium, one of my nieces said to me “I wonder how her kids behave?” They weren’t upset at being to to behave, and they accepted that it was right. I was the Pack Leader, to use a dog phrase. They’d prefer to know where they stand and what the rules are.
Third - Reduce their expectations. They don’t get a trinket or treat every time you go out. An occasional surprise is lovely, and birthdays and holidays are good gift-giving opportunities. If your dog will only sit when there’s a treat in front of him, you have a problem. On the other hand, when they’re good, you can tell them “It’s always so nice to take you out when you’re so good”.
I’d definitely go to the same mall, and let him know before you set out where you’re going and what the expectations are. And if he’s good, stop for a cookie or an ice cream to reinforce his behaviour. Not a bribe (“If you’re good we’ll stop for ice cream”), but a treat after the fact (“Didn’t we have a nice day? Would you like an ice cream?”).
But again, I’m not a parent, so I might be full of it.
StG
You aren’t a very good parent. You dragged your son out when he needed a nap. You took him to a bookstore, he’s four, so you might as well have taken him to watch paint dry. Then you brought him by a display of toy school buses sparking a natural desire to play with one. Then you played a game that applies reasoning to your arbitraty set of rules concerning putting away toys, intentionally baiting him with the comparison to the undesirable toy school bus that Grandma gave him. Then when he had the sense not to develop serious self-image problems by using food as a substitute for fulfillment, you threatened him with punishment, the torturous variety with a countdown intended to cause anxiety when faced with adversity. When he realized his parent had no concern for his natural and normal feelings he had the inevitable emotional breakdown.
From your story it appears that you also abetted him stealing the toy bus from the store, but I’m sure he or you returned it to the shelf and you just forgot to mention that.
You could have said ‘No’, taken the toy from him, put it on the shelf, and left the store ignoring his further actions, which were your fault, or bought the toy for him. Either of those would have been better choices than your actions. Four year olds cannot be expected to be reasonable, no matter how much behavioral modification you attempt to apply. The harm from buying the school bus only exists in your mind (unless you just couldn’t afford it, but I’m guessing that’s not the case). The reason he can’t have the school bus was that you said so, and you are his parent, and make those decisions. They are supposed to be reasonable decisions, but he can’t understand that.
You aren’t a bad parent, but you sound like so many who are sure that there must be a better way to parent that billions of people have not discovered yet. Stop wasting your time and your son’s time with your social experiment. Ten years hence he will be a sub-human life form called a ‘teenager’ and you will regret ever having given birth to him, and you will realize that you wasted all the time worrying about this, starting this thread, and reading any responses except this one, Gus Gustersons, and Wilbo523’s.
Sorry too sound so negative, I’m trying to get the message to stand out. We’ve all been there (real parents, not the one’s with hypothetical kids). Parenting just isn’t fun a lot of the time. Then we don our hair shirts and the flood of unresolved issues involving our own parents creates a toxic chemical spill in our minds. That would easily destroy your emotional state if allowed to fester, but you won’t have time for that because he’s trying to give the cat a bath in the toilet right now. For insight into the mind of your son, get the acclaimed series of books by the noted psychologist Bill Watterson.
Giving in to a tantrum is rewarding bad behavior. You might want to point that out to your friends.
I think you handled it pretty well, but I might have spent less time with it. It seems like for a little kid any discussion can feel like negotiation and the possibility that the answer will change to yes. A quick no and then changing the subject usually works best.
I was outnumbered as a single parent so I needed advance strategies for almost everything so we could go out into the world and make it back home in one piece.
We had four rhyming shopping rules that were non negotiable, # 2 was don’t ask twice and #4 was if you break any of the rules we leave immediately without buying anything.
That meant if one of them said hey mom can I have this bus and I said nope, we’re here to pick out one book each, they weren’t allowed to ask a second time - no exceptions.
I did have to enforce rule #4 and leave the store one time, it was Target and we had a cart full of cool stuff and someone asked twice. I reminded them of the rule and said sorry guys but now we have to go without buying any of this cool stuff, let’s go…and we did.
They weren’t happy but there weren’t any tantrums or nonsense. And they never broke any of the 4 rhyming shopping rules ever again.
That’s… an extraordinary attitude 
. It’s hard to imagine even the most indulgent parent actually verbalizing that you should give in to a tantrum, or train the child to expect something any time you go anywhere.
Now, I was not the best about refusing the demands, but I certainly did so on occasion and the kids just had to learn to live with it. I also had to drag tantrumming kids out of public places on many occasions (though not for that particular purpose… my daughter humiliated me once at the grocery store when I made her let her brother have a turn in the “truck” shopping cart).
For what it’s worth, I think you handled the situation quite well.
Slightly related anecdote: a few years ago, another girl in Moon Unit’s scout troop was promised an ipod touch for her upcoming birthday. Moon Unit came to me, wheedling, and said “A’s mom is getting her an iPod Touch!”. I said smugly “that’s because A’s mom loves her!”. Moon Unit razzed me, as appropriate (that’s a pretty typical wisecrack from me). I don’t know if she honestly expected an iPod Touch for Christmas, but I think she figured she might lay the groundwork just in case it could happen… (it didn’t).