Parents: how did you handle the gimmes?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Warning: Very long post, hence the username.

I’m interested to learn how other Doper parents have handled a case of the gimmes - you know, where your kid has latched onto the idea that he or she has to have X, Y or Z - particularly with young children.

This was sparked by a particular incident over the weekend, where I absolutely refused to cave to my son’s pressure and buy him a new toy. I actually wound up having to carry him, screaming, out of a bookstore. It was the first time in over a year I’ve had to do that and some of it was sparked by him simply being crabby from not having a nap (he’s four), but most of it seemed to be a case of the gimmes run amok, combined with the idea that if he freaked out enough, I’d give.

At the time, when he asked for a toy schoolbus, I told him, “Not today, sweetie. You’ve already got a school bus at home that Grandma gave you, which you don’t play with very often. Also, remember last time we talked about new toys? What did I say?” And he responded, "That before I get a new toy I need to put a toy away. And that I need to earn a new toy by doing X, Y and Z.” To which I said, “Now, have you put any of your toys away?” “No.” “And have you done X, Y and Z?” “No.” “Okay, so let’s put that back and get a snack. You said you were hungry just now – let’s take care of that.” “No.”

I gave him two more opportunities to put the toy back (“Please put the toy back now. You’ve got one more chance.”…“Last chance to put the toy back. Put it back now or I’ll need to start counting to 10.”), then began the countdown (“You have 10 seconds to start putting that back before I have to do it for you and we have to leave. Please do it now.”).

As soon as I began the countdown, he shrieked, “NO!” and slapped a hand over my mouth. And that was it. I calmly said, “I’m not buying that bus for you, and we don’t scream in public,” picked him up in one arm and promptly carried him out of the store while wheeling his sister in her stroller to a quiet place where he proceeded to have a tantrum. From the way he was behaving, it seemed like he was just trying to see who would last the longest.

I put this situation before a couple of other parents and their response was, “Why didn’t you just give him the bus? Or if you didn’t intend to buy him anything, why did you leave the house in the first place?” I have a couple of problems with this – first, I don’t want my kid to have the impression that he just gets anything he wants. He doesn’t, and if he believes this, I think it’s my responsibility to disabuse him of that notion. Second, I don’t see why I have to make every outing into a “what’s in it for them?” situation for the kids. Perhaps a bookstore wasn’t the best location for an outing (we were at the mall and I set the rules out before we entered the book store - that we were just looking, not buying and were going to leave soon to get a snack); however, I don’t like the idea that I have to assume I can’t leave the house unless I’m willing to buy something for my kids.

So, I have a few questions about this, primarily, how would other Dopers have handled this? Is he too young to understand that he needs to earn something? This concept has been introduced before on several occasions both inside and outside the home and was successful. Did I completely mishandle this?

2

I don’t have kids, but it sounds like you handled it perfectly and your friends are idiots. You shouldn’t leave the house unless you’re going to buy the kid a new toy? WTF?

3

I dunno, I think you handled it right. I’m definitely of the school that it is better to endure the tantrum than to give in; taking the kid outside is what I’d have done.

I have a 4 year old son, who very occasionally pulls a tantrum to try to get what he wants - usually, to not have to go to bed (“Just one more story!!!”). He can be manipulative with it - he’s tried threatening us with consequences (“If I don’t get one more story, you aren’t my friend and I won’t play with you ever again!”).

Our response to that is to explain that we aren’t his friends, we are his parents, and it is our job to do what is best for him - including enforcing bedtimes, not giving him whatever toys catch his eye, etc.

The concept of earning toys is a good one, if he can understand it.

Edit: I wouldn’t listen to your friends, not leaving the house without buying a toy is a recepie for totally spoiled children. Spoiled children are not happy and well-functioning children.

4

Admirably handled in my view. As for

In a few years they will know why not, because their kids will be spoilt.

5

I would say you’re kinder than I was (am). I never explained why we were going into a store, rarely went through a chain of questions prior to saying no. If TheKid and I were in the same situation and she went on a gimme streak, the toy would be put down and we would leave the store without explanation. Once she settled down, I would remind her how to behave in public and that she doesn’t receive presents just because she’s TheKid. I may ask if she can behave and go back into the store. If she persisted with attitude, home we would go. I would make it clear that her behavior caused the shortened trip. I’m also cruel in that I would tell her that I would be going back to the store without her, as she obviously cannot be a ‘big girl’ in public.

Now that she’s 16, she still gets the gimmes. All it takes is a look and she stops.

Your friends who stated you shouldn’t leave home without planning on buying something are idiots.

6

I do the same thing as you did. I carry them out kicking and screaming if I have to. You can’t teach them that they can get what they want by screaming. That’s how adult assholes are created. I’m amazed that other parents would advise you to just cave in.

One thing I usually do when I take them out or take them ino a store is tell them before we go in what we are and are not going to buy.

“We’re going to get milk and bread. We are not getting any junk food, so don’t ask.”

Another thing I will do is give them smal bribes. If they’re good in the supermarket, for instance, I willlet them each choose one little treat from the checkout lanes (the little candy bars, and bottle pops and whatnot). If they give me grief, they don’t get a treat. Bribes are your friend. I think they like it as long as they know they can get something, even if it’s small, and they know that they will have earned it by good behavior.

If I get tantrums in the store, I can and have left half-full carts and carried them back out to the car. I’ve only had to do this a couple of times. Once you’ve established that you really will follow through on a threat you can get better results in the future. On thing not to do is make threats and then not follow through. Then they just start ignoring you. If they know a consequence will really happen, they won’t ignore the threat.

7

Sounds to me like you handled it pretty well. It can be really hard sometimes to hold the line, but, believe me, it pays big dividends in the long run. My kids are ten and thirteen now, and they know very well that no means no.

8

I have a four year old and the friends’ reactions are perhaps the most retarded parenting idea I have ever heard.

overlyverbose, from my perspective you should have just limited your response to “Not today, sweetie.” There is no need to discuss. In life, you don’t always get what you want, even if you do X,Y, and Z and he needs to learn that.

My daughter wants every little piece of junk toy she ever sees. We just tell her she can ask for it for Christmas or her birthday. If she has been especially good lately we might give it to her later at random, but not in immediate response to her demands.

9

I think you handled it beautifully. My only change would be to limit “Chances” to three, and then be abrupt and silent. Explain in advance, give three chances, then act.

“Kind, gentle, informative, inexorable.” That’s my philosophy. I want her to feel loved at all times, even when I’m frustrated. I do not express love by giving things. I will explain why it’s necessary to do/not do something, then I’ll give three chances. This all happens in a kind and loving tone, such that she is not shut down by harshness or fear.

After that, I pretty much throw her over my shoulder and move on. She has had many a tantrum while hanging upside-down from my left shoulder, but I find I can still steer the grocery cart with my right.

I’m not saying it feels good, I hate to see my little girl upset. But the world will not be rolling at her feet like a puppy, and the younger we learn this the less painful life is.

As soon as she calms down we sit for a minute for a cuddle and some reassurance and re-bonding. I try to validate her feelings “I know it’s hard honey, but we just can’t take every little thing home with us.”

It’s quite rare, but it’s hard every time.

10

I’ve learned that my kids just don’t understand “chances”. They understand “yes” and “no”. If the answer is “no”, I tell them “no” and they either comply immediately or I make them comply (in this case, that would consist of putting the bus back on the shelf myself). They also don’t understand “please” in this context. They think that it means it’s a request that they can refuse to comply with. Think about it: we teach them to say please when they want something, but then we say no as often as we say yes. So of course they don’t always say yes when we say please to them.

So now I just say “We’re not buying that. Put it back.” No chances, no countdowns, no explanations, no “please”. Our kids accept this approach much better than they ever did with the nice and patient approach. They know that the first answer is the only answer and there’s no point arguing.

11

Thanks for all the responses so far. Given how long the tantrum lasted (about 20 minutes), I wasn’t sure I’d acted correctly. I think part of the reason he freaked out so intensely was also because I was alone with just him and his sister. Sometimes he’ll either get jealous or will assume that he can take advantage of the situation when I’ve got my hands full (my husband had to work, so I took the kids out). I think it was a bit of a shock to him when I managed to carry him out while wheeling a stroller. I was especially pissed because he was using my shirt as leverage and managed to flash my bra to most of the bookstore.

I’m not looking forward to this weekend. Unfortunately, we have to go back to the same mall since he’s outgrown his shoes. The only store close by that has shoes that fit him properly is in that particular mall, though I think there’s one across town, but that’s about 45 minutes away. I’m debating over whether I should just go to the far away one or that which is closer to temptation. Out of principle, I’m more inclined to go to the closer one; in practice, I’m on the fence, but still leaning toward the closer one.

Tangentially, what kills me (and that I never let on - either before or after the incident) was that I probably could’ve been talked into a book. That may be confusing, but I’m much more likely to buy any number of books than one toy. But I guess that’s beside the point.

12

I think you were overly verbose in your explanation to your son when you told him “No”. A simple “no” is all that is necessary, especially in the store. No need to go into a five minute lecture over what he has and what he hasn’t done, and then expecting responses from him. Just say no.

13

Oh wow. I don’t have a kid yet and even I know that’s just bad parenting.

I don’t see what you could have done differently except perhaps talk a little less about why he couldn’t have the toy since it focused on the negative (in his nap-deprived hungry* object-obsessed mind since he was hearing “no, blah blah no”) and there wasn’t anything he could do about taking any of those steps to get the toy right now but try for emotional manipulation. To him, it may have seemed like you were “rubbing it [the no] in.”

Like I said, I don’t have kids, but this is a pretty common thing I see with friends and strangers alike, the adult keeps talking in a very loving, reasonable manner but the kid can’t hear anything in there they want to hear --if they even can focus on the words in their delirium of desire (or agitation over something else) --and they just work themselves up in frustration.

But you know your kid and this approach has probably worked before just fine, just not that time. Maybe no matter what you did there was going to be a tantrum. I can still remember the painful monomaniacal emotional clarity of childhood–you just feel things so intensely it can be hard to focus on anything else. Sometimes a good cry is the only thing to clear it out, even when you’re old enough to-- after the storm of crying has passed-- look back and realize how stupid it was. Then cry of embarrassment for being such a baby. :wink:

You definitely don’t reward the gimmes, especially after mommy-mouth smacking and a tantrum.

So anyway, as others have said, you did just fine, don’t listen to those dorks who make their lives easier in the short run and don’t help their kids learn the value of delayed gratification/control/consequences, etc. Like I said, the only thing to do differently, if you’re having a psychic streak and can see he’s ramping up and that a little tired and ready for a snack are going to translate to making a mountain out of a molehill, when he asked for the bus say something like, “No sweetheart, it’s time for a snack!” and put it back for him as you’re whisking his ass off somewhere away from the Object of Desire. You might still get a tantrum if he was already thinking ahead to how asking about the bus would play out, but it does seem like sometimes kids can be knocked out of that weird feedback loop they get into, just with a distraction of the shock of being picked up and cuddled, moved somewhere else, shown something else, etc.

Sometimes, not all times, and what works sometimes doesn’t work every time, but I’ve heard consistency and calm is key. :slight_smile:

*I say “nap-deprived and hungry” which makes it sound worse than it is, but you know how the emotional effect of stupid stuff gets magnified when we’re just kind of tired, kind of hungry. Sometimes I think it’s like it’s the perfect storm and there’s nothing you could do but ride it out. Which, as a non-parent can I just say thank you for taking him somewhere else quiet to let him get it out? I know the flailing and having a second kid to shuttle around make it even harder to remove him, but it can be so hard to listen to the shrieking (so it’s got to be ten times worse for the parent) and it doesn’t make much sense to keep them in the environment that “triggered” the tantrum anyway. Especially in a bookstore. I know it’s not a library, but I really like quiet while I’m browsing and I appreciate you thinking of others while your little one is being a naughty monkey. :wink:

14

As a single person without kids, I congratulate you. I love how you said that you took the child out of the store. So many parents let the kid have the tantrum in the store.

Of course you have to remember that once a tanturm starts, it kind of has to run it’s course.

My mum had me trained well. If I asked for something:

No = No
Yes = Yes
“Well no…” = I could keep asking and might get it

Of course I bet when you put junior to sleep he looked like a little angel that never would throw a tantrum didn’t he :smiley:

15

Is he a rigid kid? I mean, does he remember and plan and whatnot or does he forget and let things go? Either way, I’d probably go to the closer one for convenience. If the lesson is repeated than I guess perhaps it might be important to do so…but his behavior might change, he might be conscious of behaving himself better this time in the hopes of a reward–in which case a book would be perfectly appropriate.

And as far as being “talked into a book” I would try not to go down that road, since it opens it up to “I start misbehaving and then it becomes a negotiation; I might not get what I want, but I might score something pretty good if I play it right.” Just as awful as a straightup case of gimmes if not worse.

But the book thing is particularly hard. It probably would have stopped him from the tantrum plus the pleasure of a new book for both of you to read together.

I love buying books for little kids, they’re so great for everybody, you snuggle up and turn pages, it can be the perfect post-freakout make-up/rebonding activity, right? And new books are just plain awesome.

16

I don’t have kids yet, but have some experience caring for them. You handled it perfectly, IMO.
Those other parents are idiots.

I do agree with PPs that having a discussion at the time might not do any good with a kid that young who’s having an emotional meltdown - you’re in charge and no is just no, you don’t have to make excuses or give your reasons every time. But such clarity about the logic behind your parenting decisions is something I would have thrived on as a child (when I wasn’t having a tantrum), and it’s something I intend to try to do with my own kids. I think as he gets older these concepts will work better for you both. Kudos all around really.

17

You should not have to drive 45 minutes away just to prevent a hissy fit. In this instance I would tell him, as you get to the mall, that you’re there for shoes only. No other stops. If he asks why, aks if he remembers what happened the last time you were there. No? Let me remind you, I had to remove you from the bookstore because you were acting horribly. I will not allow you to do that again, even if it means we cannot go into a store we usually enjoy. Maybe if you can show me that you can behave in the mall, we can go to the bookstore the next time we’re here.

18

Not a parent, but I always love your parenting (it reminds me of my mom and nanny’s). It’s tough love, and fair, and always the same. IMO, consistency is half the battle.

19

You did wonderfully, but there are a few things I’d change about your routine. First, you don’t ask for compliance. You demand it. And it shouldn’t be in a tone that seems like you’re forcing it. It should be in a tone that makes it seem like a law of physics: “No. Now you’re going to put the toy back and come along with me.” If he resists, you feign surprise and confusion that your word could possibly be contradicted “What do you mean, “no”? You absolutely will.”
The big thing, though, is that lectures come later. It’s demand-tantrum-lecture, not demand-lecture-tantrum as happened here. Kids that are in a power struggle aren’t listening to reason. They won’t be able to understand you until after they’ve calmed down. So save your “We talked about putting your toys away and doing X, Y, and Z” until after you’ve removed him from the store. That’s when it’s going to stick, not during the fight.

20

I don’t thing she meant like negotiation from the toy to a book, but rather if he had asked for the book first/alone she’d have been more inclined to say yes in the first place. I must admit I myself tend that way, most of the time when shopping I will tell my son no but I’d be more likely to agree if it’s a book. I also do the just because things sometimes, most recent was a small item from the Lego store and he was remarkably good… Probably because he sensed the first time he tantrumed he wouldn’t get anything at all, though I did have to remind him of the budget (he’s six, old enough to start learning the cost of things).

You did the right thing though I agree maybe a little wordy for him at that point. I’ve walked out of stores with my son, one time I didn’t but we were already in the line to pay and were next. I wasn’t leaving without what I came for because we needed it and I put back the item I had been going to buy when he got the gimmes for more. The lady in front of me looked at me after I gave the cashier his item and told her to put it back and she thanked me for not giving in.

My Mom has problems with him though, he realizes he has a little more advantage since she walks with a cane and can’t pick him up, plus she is a bit of a pushover in someways (I recognize it because I know I used it to my advantage as a child sometimes). But she was holding out well enough one day, trying to leave with him and groceries and some ass walked up to her and asked her why she didn’t just buy him the toy to shut him up! She ended up doing so, but boy was Velociraptor mad when I got home and found out. Toy is now in my closet, he hasn’t thought of it in months. I’ll either save for Christmas or sell it in the next toy sale.