So why weren’t you honest and upfront with your OP? Next time just say “I spank my kids, and you should, too.”
Jesus. My sister and I were raised by parents who didn’t yell or hit, and we pay taxes, obey the law, and mind our manners without hesitation. No child should ever be hit in the face no matter the infraction. That’s assault by any definition.
You were a very lucky child.
And I said I won’t hit my child in the face, but I will still want to if she curses at me. That’s just natural human emotion, but I have self control. Not sure why you said Jeezus or talked about taxes :dubious:
Because I’m shocked at the thought that there is so much yelling in a home that it requires a resolution to stop it. And shocked at the idea of slapping a child in the face. How do you teach children not to yell and not to hit if you yell and hit them?
I’m often in the company with the most unruly, rebellious 2 1/2 year old I’ve ever seen. She’s fast, she’s quick tempered, and she’s sneaky. And her family and extended family spank the shit out of her and it does nothing to change her behavior. Nothing. All it does it serve to allow exasperated adults to let off steam, and I think that’s atrocious. I’ve never spanked her, and she’s yet to harm the baby, the dog, or broken anything in my house. She doesn’t throw tantrums in my presence, and generally does whatever is in her tiny power to follow my rules and keep my attention.
I get that many of you were spanked and you “turned out fine” but many of us who were not hit also turned out fine. It seems like a good idea to teach children the rules of polite society from the get-go. Don’t hit people. Don’t yell at them. Don’t tell them to shut up or call them names. You screw up as an adult? You lose priveledges. Screw up as a kid? Same thing. I’d much rather hear an unruly child loudly protest a time out than hit her and nurse the shame of a stinging hand.
So are you judging me for yelling or for trying to stop yelling? I recognize there is a problem and am trying to fix it, so get off your high horse and realize you were lucky and sheltered as a child. We weren’t all so lucky and some of us are trying to be better than our own parents.
I misread your earlier post as having been raised without hitting. Not sure how you read “sheltered” from “my parents didn’t yell at us or hit us” but you’d be wrong. We were raised without fairy tales and with real world experience, not lied to, sheltered, or protected from reality in any way. If you realize that being raised without yelling and spanking is “lucky” then please: stick with your plan and curb the screaming. Kids are human beings and deserving of respect, even when they are misbehaving.
This is not for those who spank only when the child has created a dangerous situation, but for those who make spanking and yelling routine. Do you ever read any of the infertility/miscarriage threads? Has it occurred to you how precious kids are and how grateful some of the members here would be to have a child to teach and love?
No I totally take them for granted. Sometimes the raising and caring for them gets so inconvenient I leave the house for hours and let them fend for themselves. Kids are more a nuisance than a blessing. :rolleyes:
Thanks for the lecture, I have totally seen he error of my ways and realize what a horrible parent I must be, so would you like them? I can ship them by air mail. I’ll make sure there are holes drilled in the crates so they at least will be able to breath.
Thank you for questioning my commitment to my children and appreciation of them.
And P.S. I started one of the those miscarriage threads and I suffered infertility for 7 years. Your parents didn’t teach you to not judge others, did they?
This is quite possibly true. Though I should point out the kids weren’t there because the spanking hadn’t worked on them. They were there for many different reasons, but never because disciplining them hadn’t worked. The point I do think is relevant is this: these kids were, on average, far more difficult than the average child, and yet spanking was not remotely necessary.
What I read here is largely: well I spanked, it did no harm and stopped the behaviour therefore it is good parenting. That’s a justification that clearly comes from a culture where spanking is normalised, and it shows some reluctance at examining facts or trying to approach the issue outside your culture. That’s understandable, examining a culturally ingrained practice is very confronting. Everything I read here comes out as if it’s so obvious that spanking is some sort of natural right that parents automatically hold. It is not at all obvious to me, in exactly the same way that it would not make sense to you if you were in a thread full of people saying it is ok to beat your wife if you don’t beat her too hard.
Let me just be clear about why I see little difference in the degrees of physical violence towards children: they are just that, degrees. Of course beating a child senseless is worse than a rap on the back of that hand. I never said one wasn’t worse than the other. The same could be said for all forms of abuse: there are degrees. It’s the violence itself that is the problem. You try to quantify, to name, to explain, but it’s all violence towards a child. Did it hurt, how long did it hurt for, did it leave a mark, did you use an object, were you angry at the time, how often do you spank etc etc. They all leave huge grey areas, and the questions are somewhat arbitrary.
IANA parent but from what I can tell, parenting is a subject defined by an abundance of huge gray areas…it’s more of an art than a science. Who’s to say what is and isn’t arbitrary? I mean, obviously, there are probably a few hard-and-fast rules, like making sure your child knows they are loved unconditionally. But there are things my mother explained to me she went to great lengths to do or not do (like not making me finish all the food on my plate, for example) based on her own childhood experiences, that didn’t make any impression on me and that I’m pretty sure didn’t make a bit of difference in my habits, outlook, or the type of person I turned out to be. I’m sure there are things they did, too, without even realizing it that had a huge effect on me. For some kids it might actually really not matter a bit if you spank them or use some other mode of punishment. Not everything you do as a parent is going to have these huge psychological repercussions.
You left out the options for childless people…"
Like me. Married 43 years, childless by choice. In my view, corporal punishment is never acceptable.
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Ive never seen any convincing evidence to back that up, and a fair bit that suggests otherwise.
The problem with these debates as stated is the supporters of physical punishment always seem to do it logically, consistently, without anger, and it never results in negative or unexpected outcomes for the child.
Which doesnt seem to be how it turns out whenever theres a chance to observe it. Im sure they exist, but they seem to be rare enough I dont find them a useful reference group. There are however plenty of people Ive met who were never hit (and studies to back it up) who seem to have just turned out fine, despite all the claims that its so utterly necessary as a parenting option.
Edit: Perhaps there needed to be an option for understandable vs acceptable. People are human, and parenting isnt easy. But the idea its some vital parenting tool is one I find unconvincing.
Otara
I agree, Otara, and another factor that doesn’t come up are the wild, fearless kids who have a high tolerance for pain. My niece is an example. Spanking doesn’t do anything but pause the action for a minute and allow the parent or grandparent a chance to lash out. If falling off the back of the chair, pulling down the entire bookcase onto herself, and smacking herself in the face with the broom she yanked out of the closet don’t phase her, a few smacks on the butt don’t change anything. The only consequences that stop her behavior are to stop her behavior. And I’ve seen a lot of kids like that: impervious to pain, but I bet the aren’t impervious to the proof that hitting others is an acceptable method of expressing anger and disappointment.
If we work on table manners they aren’t expected to master until 6 and up, if we practice polite greetings, picking up after themselves and basic hygiene long before they operate as free agents, why wouldn’t we have them obey the rules of polite society and the law with regards to striking others?
Or else it is an observation that the spanking did no harm, and stopped the behavior.
Gee, condescend much?
I haven’t seen that. I see several parents describing it as one tool among many, applied where appropriate.
You seem to have at least as much difficulty understanding things outside your culture as anyone else in the thread.
This doesn’t make any sense. One is worse than the other, but there is little difference between them?
We aren’t talking about abuse; we are talking about spanking.
And forcing them to go to bed on time is kidnapping, time outs are imprisonment without trial, and forcing them to clean their room is slavery.
It’s all violence against a child, just a matter of degrees of abuse.
Regards,
Shodan (father of two)
Agreed on all points
April (Mother of 5 year old Twins, expectant mother of one more little peanut on the way!)
Parent of a 4 year old checking in.
We don’t spank because it displays a lack of control on the part of the parent - and it is trying to remedy a lack of control on the part of the child. I have very very rarely seen a parent who is not angry while spanking and this to me suggests that the spanking is done as on outlet for the parent’s anger.
I have one friend though, who will threaten a child with a spanking when she misbehaves in company and carry out the threat when the child is alone. This accomplishes two things - one, the parent follows through and second it is not done in anger. This is the only scenario where I can condone spanking.
Otherwise for things like tantrums, removal from the scene works just as well.
I can’t see it being beneficial except in rare emergencies. It seems like a method only a lazy, desperate, or emotionally immature person would resort to. It might temporarily stop or hide unwanted behavior but it certainly won’t reform it, and could potentially even make it more tempting by making it seem like forbidden fruit.
I definitely don’t want my children motivated primarily by fear of reprisal. I’d like them to act thoughtfully and lovingly. Consequences should be not about punishment, but about restitution.
Well, I have two Ivy League degrees, and I can tell you many of my classmates were spanked, as I was. I should also point out that most of these folks are Black (or Latino). I think there are very different cultural expectations for children - as someone who taught in primarily Black schools (and is a father to a Black boy and girl), I can tell you that Black folks tend to speak in a much more directed way to their kids than White folks, generally. I am not afraid to raise my voice to my kids, but I regularly see kids doing dangerous shit at the park and the parent is talking in a normal tone of voice: “Kayden, don’t do that, or you might get hurt. You don’t want to get hurt, do you?”
Whereas I typically say “Boy, get down from that top bar of the jungle gym NOW.” And he does.
My kids are very polite and generally well behaved. All kids lose it on occasion, but I have never had a screaming meltdown or anything of the sort outside of the house. That’s because I make it damn clear that they are expected to behave like civilized human beings.
I think there are some interesting developments in parenting as of late. First, many parents do not want their kids to fear them. I can assure you, as a kid, I knew my parents loved me and did all they could to support me. But I was afraid of pissing them off or disappointing them, long before I realized I didn’t want to screw up and I wanted to achieve for my own reasons. I stayed out of trouble as a teenager because the peer pressure bullshit that the knuckleheads were spewing was not even close to the level of fear I had of my parents if they found out that I skipped school, or joined a gang, or any of that bullshit. Looking back, that’s the only reason why didn’t sneak out of the house to hang out with hoodlums (one of whom ended up shooting somebody outside of a nightclub - I might have been with his if I had the courage to defy my parents.
The second is that some parents presume that their children are mini adults. Harvey Karp has this right: think of toddlers as uncivilized cave people. Redirecting kids has to be short, sharp, and immediate - not necessarily how you’d deal with an adult.
I completely agree with the posters that state that every child is different - and there’s no panacea or blanket treatment that works every time on every child. Anyone who promises such is full of shit. There are techniques that generally help but you might have that one child that isn’t bothered by time out… so then you’d better come up with something else.
The things that I have found that do work, mostly, is consistency, structure, and having a plan. If you have a rule, you have to always enforce it, or you shouldn’t have that rule. Make sure that kids know the schedule you follow and stick to it.
Yea, not this white parent, LOL. But that is probably because I am from the South 
Nope, sorry, completely disagree.
Well as a “spanker” and one that was raise being “spanked” I do believe it can be a useful form of disciplin, but rarely. I use it how it was used on me and that was more for effect that actual pain infliction (though pain was inflicted). When my kids were really young it was useful for getting their attention in a scenario where they could put themselves in danger. However I do believe that the use of time out is better. You get better reflction and a better formation of disciplin. Now, if they do something really bad or it’s overly repetitive, I have resorted to it, though I can’t say it’s very effective. My kids are aging out of that now so I haven’t done it in a while. I am actually having a bit of a miss with their father who is hardcore for corporal punishment and generally resorts to it immediately. It’s how he was raised:/.
My parents used it as a last resort as well, when nothing else seemed to work or I did something really bad. The last time I was whooped, I was 8 or 9 and followed some other kids into a vacant house. Some property damaged was done after the fact and my parents was one of many that got a bill. I got a butt whipping and grounded for 2 weeks. As an adult, I feel I was an appropriate punishment.
I don’t feel I was ever abused as a child and believe it can be a tool but if you take the time with your kid you can probably come up with better ones.