Experienced that too.
I suspected my now college daughter was gay from middle school. She was ultra huggy with other women is one item that I noticed. There were multiple other clues that made me go hmmm every once in a while. There were more than a few somewhat tense conversations at dinner with my wife (more on her later). Shit like parroting some right wing talk radio “marriage is between a man and a woman”, with me going WTF and daughter taking more personally that standing up for injustice and against bigotry.
Driving my daughter to sophomore year of high school, we had a conversation that somehow turned toward dating. I told her “I don’t care if you like boys, girls or both.” Long silence. “Glad we’re not having this conversation at the dinner table.” And left it at that. Then about 6 months later she came out to her mother and I. My response was to hug her and say “you’re our daughter, you always will be, and we love you as you are” or something to that effect.
My wife grew up in China and moved to the US about 10 years ago. She listened to a lot of day time radio that turned out to be very conservative, and a lot of memes were absorbed. She was very welcoming of the lesbian friend of our daughter. Then, daughter came out. That night my wife kinda lost it. Daughter #3 is on the autism spectrum, so my wife started saying “I now have two handicapped kids.” We had long talks, and the gist was I said “who cares? We have a happy, talented kid that takes care of her younger sisters, is polite, well mannered, good grades, a heck of an artist, gets on well with most people, no drugs, no drinking. We are blessed.”
My wife went on anti-depressants. Went to one PFLAG meeting that ended in tears. Quit marriage counseling after one session (our daughter’s orientation was raised as a stressor to work thru). Quit 1:1 therapy after one session. Was totally validated by her extended family that a gay child was a horrible outcome. A segment of the Chinese population from the post-revolution/cultural revolution era when homosexuality was a crime* cannot accept a gay family member (or hell, maybe it’s just my soon to be ex in-laws and extended family. Very weird that they seem to be understanding of “born in the wrong body” but not accepting of “born this way.” Has alienated her daughter. A lot more private crap I’m not going to share. We are getting divorced because I can’t be married to a bigot that is not accepting of our child (in addition to the private crap that was probably a really horrendous self-coping strategy). Sis in law says “you have to understand Chinese culture.” To which I say “you need to accept your niece or we have no relationship.” It’s beyond sad with my daughter basically estranged from her mother and entire Chinese side of the family.
In fact last weekend, I gave it one last try to see if there is a way to salvage our marriage. “It’s be 3.5 years, get over your issues with our daughter’s sexuality.” “Don’t you tell me how to feel.” We are done.
Oh, by the way, 14 year old middle daughter has been out for a year or two. To the OP, I didn’t have a vibe that she is gay. I’m supportive and don’t care. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if a few years down the road she comes out as straight. But what do I know?
Daughter #3 is on the autism spectrum, and cannot vocalize sexuality. It is challenging to understand her, or even understand if she has attractions. Her situation is far too complicated to try write on a message board.
*Eldest daughter was happy to report that Shanghai has a large gay community that are “out” if you can read the code. For example, a coffee shop with potted flowers in an not to obvious rainbow of colors arrangement. Being gay is also no longer illegal. Gay marriage even is talked about in social media. Gay marriage is now legal in Taiwan.
Oh, forgot to mention that seeing how Mom treated her big sister was a massive stressor on middle daughter. Middle daughter developed severe anxiety, was well on the way to full blown anorexia and expressed suicidal thoughts at school. I had missed many of these signs but eldest daughter intervened with me. Then we went on a week long camping trip last summer to Canada, and everything was in full sight.
I am extremely grateful to the Seattle Children’s Hospital that had a 8 week anxiety group for my daughter, and a break out session for parents. BTW, my wife does not believe in therapy, was not supportive, was not involved in the therapy or exposures, but my daughter and I managed to get thru it. From about week 2, the therapy and associate exposures started to help. The borderline eating disorder didn’t go over the line, and in fact now she seems to have a normal teenage appetite. She’s been making and taking her lunch to school for a few months. Now I very rarely check her weight and she is slowly adding a couple of pounds. The anxiety is way down, and in fact she is now is annoyed that there is a 504 plan in place at school. When I told her about the divorce she was relieved. Thankfully no cutting. School counselor reported that the past few times they have talked, daughter no longer “jokes” about suicide.
We are not out of the woods but reasonably back from the cliff. I monitor closely with the school, and am now cautious instead of deeply concerned.
Unfortunately, my wife doesn’t want to move back to China because of the kids. I want my twins 100% but willing to settle for 50%. Unfortunately, it looks like we probably have to go to court over custody. Thanks for letting me vent.
ChinaGuy Really sorry to hear that. That really sucks. I know a lot of Taiwanese who have similar feelings.
My wife is really progressive so that won’t be a concern no matter what my kids wind up. They are still 10 and 8 and have yet to really show any indication either way.
I have a sibling who identifies as non-gender. The sibling transitioned from female, and my mother couldn’t handle it. The sibling has a female long-term partner and again my mother and many of the extended family (all Mormon) didn’t really do well with that either.
“C” is autistic with some serious emotional issues from the abuse in our family, so it wasn’t obvious what C’s internal state was. I have no problem, of course. C is and will always be my sibling.
The situation did make easier the introduction to my kids of the concepts of gay and transgender people. Before C was public about being transgender, then we would talk to the kids that some women like other women, like C and her partner. After C came out, then it was “some people are born as girls but feel they are boys or neither.” When children are exposed to that when they are small, then it just seems natural.
Nobody in my immediate family is gay, but one of my best friends and a cabinmate from Boy Scout summer camp came out to me when he was in college. I’d already strongly suspected it for several years, so it came as no great shock. He told me later he was surprised that (a) I already knew, and (b) I was as accepting as I was; he thought I was more conservative on such matters than I really was (or am). My wife and I attended his union ceremony a few years later (still no SSM in Ohio at that point) and he still remains a good friend.
Ah, so you’re finding Metallica’s influences in the Bible. Gotcha.
I wasn’t sure but I wasn’t surprised either. She went through an “I’m asexual that’s a thing” period and then she met her true love. They were married last year. We are lucky in that both extended families of the brides are completely accepting and they all came to the wedding. It was very sweet. I know that isn’t the case for many.
My older daughter was only 14 when she came to me concerned about feels she was having, and that was a little bit surprising. But that was 16 years ago and we weren’t quite so open even that short time ago. I felt bad for her because she thought something was wrong with her and didn’t want to feel that way. Glad things are easier now.
My 14 year old who is trans was less of a surprise but I honestly wondered at first if it wasn’t due to hormonal issues making him feel confused. He has PCOS and even at 12 had a lot of excess hair and rather masculine build, so I feel like it was natural for me to think medication for the hormone issue would help. But no, the medication only confused him more and made him gain weight and develop breasts, causing deep depression. I suspected, I didn’t really know for sure, I thought you know there’s still that whole “tomboy” thing, but no, once the breasts developed I could tell how miserable he was and expected it the day he told me.
Not sure the precise figures are established, but it’s called the Fraternal Birth Order Effect (and a variety of similar, related names).
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Nope. My daughterish has always been odd and alternative, but I sort of figured eventually they’d settle into being interested in boys since a lot of young women start with mixed feelings about men. They are Ace and Aro, so its a little different. And non-binary - but does “feminine” very well and has shown an interest in that sort of girly from early middle school (they enjoy androgyny - but really can’t hit masculine)- so there aren’t a lot of clues. They started telling me pretty young, and my take has always been “that is awesome, and sexuality and gender may be fluid, so if you decide differently as you get older, that is fine as well.”
No children, but I do have a lesbian niece. Never, ever dawned on me.
She told us at 7 that she liked girls and not boys. That has never changed. Didn’t have much to go on before that.