Parents: What would you do?

[HurricaneDitka]

@Pantastic

If you say “You will be out of here at the end of the month if you do X”, and then six months later you finally sort through the legal issues and pay the daughter penalties and she’s finally out, I would say that your threat about the end of the month was empty. And that’s presuming that the enabler parent sticks through the process of eviction and doesn’t get second thoughts or a moment of weakness and derails the process.

I don’t know why someone on a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance would advocate going into a hostile situation with willful ignorance and a plan that’s clearly not going to work. Why on earth would you not check what your landlord-tenant laws are and take them into account when you make threats instead of setting yourself up for dismal failure and extra expense?

A family went through something similar earlier this year. story here:

A 30-year-old man didn’t get the message that it was time to move out of his parents’ home, even after they left him five notices and an offer of cash to help find new digs.

The New York family drama eventually rolled into the court system, where a judge on Tuesday ruled in the parents’ favor and ordered Michael Rotondo to leave after having a room for eight years.

But Rotondo contends he is owed a six-month notice.

Rotondo told CNN’s sister network HLN on Wednesday that he would love to leave as soon as possible – “I don’t like living there” – but he was not able to do so immediately.

“I’m getting together the means to do that,” he said. “With my parents, they want me out right away, and they’re not really interested in providing reasonable time, and the court is siding with them, as it seems.” …

[Jennshark]

@Voyager

Has Kate ever paid Sally rent? (Doesn’t sound like it.) If not, I’d guess no tenant situation exists. They should definitely check with a lawyer, but when we bought a house down the road from you in Pennington our lawyer set things up so that even though we let the owners stay in the house until theirs was ready, there was no tenant relationship. That’s NJ law also, though 30 year old law.

Not one cent for rent, food, cable, utilities. Ever. Sally is across the River in Yardley, I’ll suggest she check PA law.

[Merneith]

@Voyager

Has Kate ever paid Sally rent? (Doesn’t sound like it.) If not, I’d guess no tenant situation exists. They should definitely check with a lawyer, but when we bought a house down the road from you in Pennington our lawyer set things up so that even though we let the owners stay in the house until theirs was ready, there was no tenant relationship. That’s NJ law also, though 30 year old law.

In a lot of places, it has to do with the length of time the person has stayed, not if they’re paying rent. In this case, Sally’s kid has apparently lived there for years. That would make her a tenant in most places in the US. It would be illegal to suddenly force her into homelessness with no notice.

Now, as I said in my first post - if the parents had filed assault charges, or gotten a restraining order, they might be able to get her out immediately. And of course, getting her arrested is its own solution.

It’s not impossible to get the kid out the door, it’s just more complicated than it might look at first.

[Ellecram]

@peedin

I had a brother like that, except without the physical violence. This was during the 70s and 80s when there was no such thing as counseling/therapy. The situation only ended when my brother died. I guarantee that Sally won’t ever be rid of Kate.

Same with me. My brother lived with my dad for a large portion of his life until he committed suicide at age 46. This was his third attempt and it left him in a “locked in” state for almost 3 months before he succumbed. It was tragic.

He lived off and on on his own and actually was stable for awhile until he got very sick with HIV. Even though he lived in his own place and had employment for awhile my father subsidized a lot of the living expenses.

There was a lot of violence which I don’t wish to itemize but it was far worse than what has been described with Sally and her daughter. I don’t know how you get people to recognize that their situation is not functional and potentially dangerous. The boundaries keep shifting with each event and you find yourself stuck.

I have no advice.

At least she has resources and apparently friends like you who care.

[TruCelt]

@kayaker

I’m not a counseling kinda guy, but this seems like a situation where family counseling is warranted. That and maybe steer Kate into Roller Derby.

I don’t understand the Roller Derby reference?

@Jennshark

She has it but often skips appointments. Her parents pay out-of-pocket for psych treatment but if she doesn’t not much to be done other than in-patient treatment.

I don’t know if Kate would be more responsible if she were paying $250 an hour herself.

I do care a lot about Kate. I’ve known her since she was 12yo and she does have mental health challenges. I’ve been through the wringer with on and off depression for decades and it’s tough to make yourself get to the doc and even tougher to follow through on a treatment plan. I think taking care of herself is adult-type thinking she just doesn’t yet possess.

Please send Sally that link I provided. In fact, if you’ll PM me an e-mail address I’ll send you the research I did for them. There are quite a few options.

@Sunny_Daze

My son was suicidal. His counselor set up rules very quickly so that he could not use suicide as a cudgel against any of us. They worked.
. . .
Another suggestion for Sally, regarding providing financial help for Kate to move out. Many parents provide financial help to their children at various points in their lives, college, first homes, children, car loans, and it doesn’t mean that they are bribing them or rewarding them. It’s just something parents do if they want to.

I’m very curious about these rules. Can you share more about them? What were they? How enforced?

If they go the route of just getting a place for her, then it’s important that Sally and her husband not be on the lease or any of Kate’s bills. They should go with Kate to the property management office and give her the money to cover a three or six-month lease. But Kate should be the only signatory, and be the one who hands over the money. Best to get a cashier’s check for this and put Kate’s name on it as payor.

This way when the paid period is up, it’s entirely between Kate and the landlord, Sally and her husband are out of it.

But I really hope they will go with residential treatment and a planned transition. They did have a hand in creating this situation, and they need to clean up their mess. It’s great that Kate has a degree, a real leg up, but it doesn’t solve everything magically. Leaving a $15hr job is not a loss greater than the potential gain. She clearly hasn’t developed a real career.

[TokyoBayer]

My mother has done something similar for two of my siblings. My younger brother is currently homeless and my mother gives $300 a month or something like that. She’s been doing that for years. Back when he was in his 20s and living on her front room couch, I asked her what she intended to do with him. She said that she had a “five year plan.” In five years, he would be out on his own and making money. Of course she had no plan for any intermediate steps on how to get there.

Her therapist isn’t doing her any favors by letting her vent a bit in therapy without taking the hard steps to actually do things which are painful.

Kate needs to kicked out and set free to sink or swim. Manipulators like her and my younger brother just aren’t going to change unless forced into it.

[TokyoBayer]

My brother is in his early 50s now, so this has gone on for over 30 years. My mother simply didn’t have what it would have taken to help him back when it could have been easier to help. He did work some jobs here and there along the way, but things just didn’t get better on their own. Rather, it just got worse as time went by.

I can fully sympathize with my mother and the OP’s friend. It really isn’t easy to not step in when one’s child is hurting, even when the child is an adult, but unfortunately that just doesn’t help the situation.

I don’t know how to help people who aren’t particularly motivated the change, and it sounds like that could be both the mother and the daughter. I also wonder what the father is doing in all of this.

[kayaker]

@TruCelt

I don’t understand the Roller Derby reference?

Kate roughed up her mom. I was suggesting putting her physicality to work.

If her parents can’t evict her, what about if they moved out? If they have the means they could maybe fly away for an unannounced months-long second honeymoon. Surely that would be legal.