I wonder how many of these people know that during shooting the average length of a day on a film set is 12-16 hours. Also, it’s not like a crappy movie with bad acting takes less work to produce.
Erek
Of which time, I would bet that 80 percent of it is spent sitting in one’s trailer waiting for lighting or sets or makeup or other scene shots or for the director to get his head out of his ass. Poor bastards. Won’t someone please think about the actors?
And these companies don’t do it because…they’re lazy? They like dishing out cash to people? Cripes, get real. Have you ever worked in a ‘cube farm’? My dad worked in a cube farm with an engineer named Scott Adams until he was laid off. There were layoffs and staff reductions, but nothing upon the rediculous 75% range you offer. Those people are mostly salaried and expected to work 50 hours weeks with heavy levels of stress to get their job done. Sure there’s a few Wallys out there, but most folks do their share and then some. And they don’t get paid 7 or 8 or even 6 figures to do it. I’ve found acting to be far easier than most jobs I’ve had and I was also acting as a grip and boom operator.
Yes, I’ve worked in a cube farm. The method there was to take people fresh out of college, overwork them, underpay them, burn them out, hire some more people fresh out of college, rinse/repeat. There was a guy who was a manager who consistently moved furniture around causing massive work delays, and more work for me and my department (we were IT). The companylast I heard was foundering because the founders divorced, and they had a brilliant idea of splitting the company into two competing companies, both running one, both maintaining stocks. The original company was bled dry in order to fund the newer sexier version that never was able to be profitable. Half the work of the people that knew what was up was spent training people or correcting their mistakes.
I learned a healthy disrespect for corporate America when these newly graduated college kids who were older than I was would look at me with awe and wonder and ask “How long did you go to school to learn your miraculous skills?”, and my answer was “none.” (you fucking tool, why on Earth would you go to school to learn QuarkXPress?)
My wife’s company has been hired to help fix some major issue with a Fortune 500 company that has been posting losses consistently for a while, and has recently undergone some management changes. They have been hired to manage continuity between brands because the corporate structure is in this insane parallel no-communication structure.
In business, my partner and I have been making our living explaining to people who are too focused on the old-school corporate culture that the way they’ve been doing it is bassackwards, and that there are plenty of ways to do it other than that. When you have to “think outside the box” to maintain simple problem solving skills, you know something is terribly wrong.
Biodiesel, the current way biodiesel in manufactured is by soybean oil. It is more expensive than petro-diesel, and the government has to create incentives to influence it’s adoption. Meanwhile restaurants all over the cuontry are throwing away their fryer grease, which has already gone through a couple steps of the refining process. So biodiesel companies that are cropping up to manufacture it from Waste Grease are gonna clean up on the competition by producing a product that’s not only cheaper than soy biodiesel but cheaper than petro-diesel as well, these companies are going to be producing lots of product without a large staff.
It’s no secret that the problem with most businesses is bad data management. There are a lot of people who are employed simply to shuffle papers from one filing cabinet to another. In the instance of law firms, the lawyers print out these gigantic case files and read the printout rather than just perusing them on screen. So there are people that have to work just to maintain the excesses of lawyers who can’t get with the times.
If it’s too difficult for you to grasp that technology hasn’t caught on to it’s full effectiveness yet, simply because the older generation that’s been running things doesn’t know how to implement it properly, you’re in for a rude awakening in about five years. Ever hear of the term “Disruptive Technology”?
I agree about working on a film set being less work, but only because people there feel a sense of purpose and a desire to be there, not because the actual work that needs to be done is any less.
There is a lot of shit that’s done in our society that’s just fucking retarded. Talk to little kids, you’ll see that they know it, and as they grow up and enter the workforce more and more you’ll see vast changes happening. Right now my company works on a vendor model. We tend to hire other people’s companies as subcontractors as opposed to hiring employees. This make our structure far more dynamic as we don’t have to worry about holding onto employees while we wait for the work to come in. Most of my career thus far has been trying to provide extra work for people I want to work with while I tool up to get my company in order so I can work on what I really want to. These sorts of relationships amount to having a fairly robust corporate infrastructure that is self-supporting and efficient. You’ll be seeing our movies and other media released over the next couple of years.
Most of what I’ve considered as “work” has involved spending lots of time at parties. It can be exhausting, but it’s still work, even though your average cubicle drone might not consider it as such, but that’s why I run my own companies and don’t work in a cubicle. The same is true for Paris Hilton even though she’s dumber and lazier than you all are.
Erek
Last time I checked, Paris wasn’t a model, or at least, she didn’t set out to be. She became famous because she’s a rich socialite heiress, pissing away the family fortune.
I have no doubt that people in the entertainment industry work hard. Being an actor, or a model, or whatever does involve very hard work. BUT…just because Paris Hilton does a photoshoot every so often, doesn’t mean I have to respect her. You want hard working celebs? Try Sir Ian McKellen. Or Cate Blanchette. They’re people I can look up to and respect.
Someone who encourages the idea that being stupid and shallow is feminine and sexy? Not so much.
Spot on.
I judge my personal worth solely on the Paris Hilton scale.
(Don’t you just love armchair psychology via the internet?)
Name one.
Besides, you’re shifting the goal posts. The quote that the OP was objecting to was that PH worked hard to get where she is. Not that she works hard now that she is where she is (which I doubt).
Though, to be fair, I did allow myself to get drawn down that box canyon. But, simply for the record, even if one were to spend 24 hours straight in front of a camera in order to get a photoshoot done, if that’s a once-in-a-blue-moon sort of thing and they party the rest of the time, then I don’t think we can say they’re working hard as a general statement.
Burden of proof.
I do not have to prove that someone without a job isn’t working. You have to prove that someone without a job is.
Besides, again, goal posts. She didn’t work hard to get where she is. She traded on her name recognition and minor celebrity status. Then she paid some publicists.
But, we’re now going in circles. I don’t think I’ve got anything new to say, nor do I think y’all do. So, if you want you can talk about how I’m jealous or that I’ve got a bruised ego or whatever. I really am leaving this thread (for real this time :D). Check y’all lata.
So let’s see.
The thing up for debate was whether or not Paris Hilton works hard.
The con arguments are:
Partying is not work in a field based on schmoozing
Photography shoots are not work unless you are someone other than Paris
Movie shoots, ditto, work as long as you’re not Paris
Paris Hilton does shoots only once in a while despite doing multiple movies, TV Shows and magazine spreads in the past couple of years since her rise to fame.
If you are a skank then somehow the work you do is less hard
Work involves suffering as a necessary component
Yeah, I see so much logic involved here, continue on you’re all doing a beautiful job, give yourselves a hand.
Erek
You still have to prove she doesn’t have a job. She has a list of projects on IMDB as long as my arm, numerous ventures not IMDB related, yet she is without a job? Interesting.
There are any number, but a category I might name is that of general entrepreneur. People who run a number of enterprises but who don’t slot into any easy category. I know a guy who works incredible hours. He owns a couple of hair salons (in which he cuts hair at times), he has a cafe, he buys and sells and develops property, he does a bit of shop fitting. When he’s not working solidly on something like shopfitting (or indeed even when he is) he’s working the phone, buying things, selling things, lining up opportunities. Even when he’s not “working”, he’s working because his socialising is as much about making contacts and getting known by the right people as socialising.
What do you think she meant by “where she is”? Do you know? Be careful that you are not making a large assumption unjustified by any knowledge on your part when you answer.
Crap. You are just trying to define yourself into a proof. You’ve adopted some narrow view of work, banking (I assume) on a nonsense notion that those who don’t earn salary or wages necessarily don’t work.
Face it, you have abso-fucking-lutely no idea what PH’s diary looks like. If PH spends 6 days a week working her ass off (and I have no idea if she does), goes out on the Wednesday night and flashes her tits to some photographers, and goes out on Saturday night to a big celebrity bash in a revealing dress with a new man, and on Sunday goes to the beach with some brat pack friends and acts like an asshole, what elements of her week do you think will be the only elements that come to your attention?
You have a particular impression based on a few TV shows and gossip rags. Which is another way of saying you know zip.
Lots of people are heiresses. There are proportionally very, very few that any of us could name, let alone any who have the bankable celebrity that PH does. The idea that she just got there through lazing about is possible. It’s also possible that she’s worked hard at it. Proof either way, you have none.
Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie were both made famous because of their relations. Angelina Jolie’s father is John Voight, and Gwyneth Paltrow has known Stephen Spielberg since childhood.
Erek
Gwennyth’s father was a producer (I think), mom is actress Blythe Danner.
I knew her parents did something in Hollywood, just not what. Thanks.
Erek
I agree that your pissing in the street is less of a public health hazard than shitting in the street. However, it’s not problem-free. It smells bad, it is technically indecent exposure, and most importantly, it involves touching your fecal-coliform-bacteria-covered genitals without being able to wash your hands. The Master has explained why this is a bad thing, and does help spread disease.
If you don’t want to hold your pee, then plan to stop someplace where you can use the bathroom. I agree that it makes sense for cities to have lots of clean free public restrooms available, but I don’t agree that the lack of them entitles you to spray your urine all over the public sidewalk.
Moreover, I can’t believe that somebody who doesn’t even know that it’s unsanitary to pee without washing his hands afterwards is lecturing other people on how stupid they are. I just hope you’re not attending all those parties after taking one of your sidewalk leaks and letting everybody shake your unwashed hand. Yuck.
(And I think it’s also pretty rich that somebody who brags about “running his own companies” is so cheap that he prefers to piss in public rather than buy anything in order to use a patrons-only restroom.)
Also, one assumes that either she wasn’t wearing underwear (NTTAWWT), or that she doesn’t mind walking around in pee-soaking panties for a while (guh-ross!).
Well, see there is this little thing called “building an immunity”. As we are exposed to germs our body adapts to handle them. This is why people don’t really get sick with these sorts of problems. There is also that our hands are about the dirtiest part of our entire bodies, after our mouths, so my genitals are probably cleaner than my hands when I touch my dick. Do you wash your hands every time you touch your mouth? If not then you can stuff your bullshit up your ass.
It is unhealthy to hold one’s bladder when it is completely unecessary. It keeps toxins in our body that our body decided would be best to expel. It throws our body chemistry out of whack and the clenching reduces circulation overall. All in all it’s really bad fucking idea. Now if we as a society put more of a priority on actually treating people like human beings and installed public potties for me, or passed a law that forces restaurants to allow the populace to use their facilities in exchange for allowing them to do business in the municipality that they have to share with me, my attitude might be quite different.
However, in this case, I think you are doing what I have been calling people stupid for this entire time. Worrying about stupid petty bullshit.
Just because you do not believe that the human body is capable of adapting to handle trace amounts of bacteria, and you don’t realize that everything in this world is COVERED in bacteria that we have adapted to handle, and that the car exhaust is probably worse for you than shaking my hand right after I’ve taken a piss in the street, then you are probably too disconnected from the natural world for this to make any sense to you at all.
Erek
Sure they do. They can even get typhoid spread by “inadequate hand washing after defecation or urination”.
Just because there are also other nasty germs out there in, for example, human saliva, as well as other health hazards like tailpipe emissions, doesn’t mean that your little personal campaign to expose others to your fecal coliform bacteria is actually good for public health.
Frankly, you don’t seem like the kind of person likely to be influenced by such considerations, so I’m not really expecting that my remarks will change your behavior. But at least they will alert other readers of the thread to what the Straight Dope actually is on the subject.
(And if any of them ever happen to meet you in the real world, they will know that it would be prudent to wash their hands after shaking hands with you.)
By the way, mswas, do you have any cites for your claims about what a health hazard it is to delay urination for a short time? I know that women trying to avoid bladder infections are advised to urinate frequently, but I’ve never seen any medical advice that suggests it’s dangerous to hold it till you get to a restroom, nor that it harms our body chemistry or our circulation. So, cite?
The former. There are quite a few pictures out there of her flashing her unfurnished basement.
Hmm, I’ll try. I’ve mostly gotten this information from advice of people who are healthy, and then figured out how it made my body feel to do such a thing and verify it. As I am pretty in touch with my body, I know what’s better for it and what is not, but of course for you this is anecdotal evidence.
We’ll see how you like these cites.
There are several ways you may be able to prevent UTIs. After urination, females should wipe from front to back with toilet paper. After bowel movements, be sure to wipe from front to back to avoid spreading bacteria from the rectal area to the urethra. Another thing you can do to prevent bladder infections, whether you’re a male or female, is to go to the bathroom to empty your bladder frequently. Avoid holding your urine for long periods of time.
http://www.urologyhealth.org/adult/index.cfm?cat=03&topic=147
How do I avoid UTIs?
There are some simple steps women can use to avoid UTIs. Women who have gone through menopause and have lost the normal estrogen output have a change in the lining of the vagina. Estrogen replacement under the guidance of a gynecologist and/or primary care doctor can be a simple solution. Since certain patients cannot take estrogen replacement, you should contact your doctor prior to beginning any regimen.
Urination after sexual intercourse may also decrease the risk of UTI because it can flush out any bacteria that were introduced during intercourse. Sometimes a dose of antibiotics after intercourse can help prevent recurrence of UTIs.
Certain forms of birth control, such as spermicidal foam and diaphragms, are known to increase the risk of UTIs in women who use these as their form of contraception.
You should also drink plenty of fluids to keep well hydrated.
You should not delay urinating and should not rush when urinating. Also, holding in urine and not emptying your bladder completely can increase your risk of UTIs.
You should wipe from front to back to prevent bacteria around the anus from entering the vagina or urethra.
Erek
Well, those cites basically seem to be advice to urinate frequently to avoid bladder infections, as I already mentioned (though one of your cites additionally remarks that this applies to men as well as to women). And it recommends against holding urine for “long periods of time”, but I don’t see any indication that just holding it long enough to get to a restroom is bad for you.
As for the comments about holding it interfering with your body chemistry and circulation, I don’t doubt your sincerity about your own personal subjective reactions, but yup, that’s merely anecdotal evidence.
(By the way, another thing that street pissers, and those considering becoming one, should know is that many jurisdictions do crack down on public urination as a “quality-of-life crime”. Including, apparently, New York City, where the fine for a first offense is $50.)