Seems that they increased the casting time of several to 10 minutes (such as Mending) to resolve the issue. Looked over a couple of threads on the subject, most from 2011-2014.
I’m thinking a slightly different solution;
Each cantrip/orison *known *may only be used 3/day as a spell-like ability.
Casting times go back to a standard action.
So the Sorcerer can’t Ray of Frost 600 times an hour until the end of time and while Mending will be pretty much instant, you can only do it, or Light, or Detect Magic or any of the others three times per day each, then you’re done with that cantrip until tomorrow.
Personally, I like just leaving them unlimited. Most of them are weak enough that it makes almost no difference to balance. People mostly only use cantrips in situations where it’s fun to do so, and why put a limit on fun?
If there are a few specific cantrips that get abused, then fix those. Off the top of my head, Cure Minor Wounds at-will would make a significant difference (one can debate whether it’s a good difference or bad, but it’s certainly significant), but Pathfinder already fixed that one by replacing it with a cantrip that does nothing except stabilize dying characters, without restoring HP. And Detect Magic being always up does change some aspects of play, so giving that one specifically a long casting time is fine. But what’s the problem with being able to do 1d3 damage every round, or changing the color of your eyes, or whatever?
I don’t get what the issue is. Cantrips are mostly useless, the only exception being Guidance which might be usefull once in a blue moon. But most of Pathfinder’s challenge lies in the combat, and in combat your priest/mage will have better things to do than casting cantrips because D&D combat is all about the economy of actions.
In other situations, cantrips are either just for fun or creative solutions, neither of which should be hamstrung.
I don’t get what the issue is. Cantrips are mostly useless, the only exception being Guidance which might be usefull once in a blue moon. But most of Pathfinder’s challenge lies in the combat, and in combat your priest/mage will have better things to do than casting cantrips because D&D combat is all about the economy of actions.
In other situations, cantrips are either just for fun or creative solutions, neither of which should be hamstrung.
ETA : I mean, what’s the issue with Ray of Frost ? Your sorcerer could also lug a crossbow to use when the mobs are all mostly dead and/or harmless, and there’s nothing else to do. What’s the difference ? Just let 'em rip those 1d4 cherry taps.
Some immobile (or extremely slow) things are killed by acid or cold. Being able to sit back and peg them infinitely for d3 (or double if they have Vulnerable Cold or Acid) isn’t much of a challenge.
Or do the same to heal constructs healed by such things.
Then you’ve got your Wizard who may have Light memorized once or twice, but the Sorcerer scoffs and maintains it all day long. Or Detects Poison all day in the Gumdrop Castle of Elza the Evil.
ETA : I mean, as a DM it’s pretty helpful to have one guy in the party being able to finish off that down but regenerating troll so you can move on to something else.
Anything that could be killed by repeatedly plinking it with 1d3 damage a round is something that was never a challenge to begin with, even without the cantrip.
So when you’ve killed all the Vegepygmies and someone makes the spot check to see the Russet Mold, just scratch it off the list and give them the treasure under it?
Yeah, pretty much. The only things challenging about russet molds are spotting it in the first place, and fighting the vegepygmies that surround it. Once you’ve done that, you can kill it using your choice of methods, or just leave it alive and walk around it.
I’ve always been confused by this attitude. If you feel that this would be problematic (and I personally have nothing wrong with the wizard saying “well I can handle this without a problem, right?”), why would you present them with this encounter at all?
“Once in a full moon”? If you play a character with guidance, and you don’t give every out-of-combat skill check a +1, you’re being a bad cleric and a bad friend. You should add that +1 into all knowledge checks, all active perception checks, all climb checks, all disable device checks at the very least.
When you’re exploring a dungeon, you should have detect magic up constantly. If anyone can’t see, put a light on someone’s shield, or headband, or something, so there’s a hands-free light. And why don’t you have message up? PUT MESSAGE UP, WIZARD!
The others are less useful, sure, but these four are essentials. Figuring out whether it’s time to cast your one preparation of detect magic for the day? That’s not fun. Have 'em constant, and love 'em.
Of course :). I meant that the +1 from Guidance will *actually *make the difference between “nope” and “got it !” once in a blue moon :). It still is only a 5% bonus after all.
Detect magic always up is kind of a no-no though - you have to concentrate. So the whole party has to walk at half-pace while the precious buffs are ticking down… plus your DM would be well within his right to deny you regular perception rolls and/or some reflex saves because you’re focusing on your arcane flashlight thingy IMO.
Meh–in many parties, it’s 3/4 movement (wizards are usually races with 30 movements, and if there’s someone in the party with a 20’ movement, you’re reducing party movement from 40’ to 30’). You can turn off the flashlight if there’s a long slog in front of you where that would wear buffs down in a serious way.
As for DM denying perception rolls/reflex saves? Sure, the DM could do that, but it wouldn’t be supported by the rules, other than rule 0. I don’t think that would be a wise idea anyway.
Why is Ray of Frost, dealing a mere 1d3 damage, overpowered? Why is Light overpowered? Detect Magic? It’s a one-size-fits-all solution too, even though the spells are very different. If there’s an overpowered cantrip, then you might have a point about that cantrip. (IMO, the best fix would be to raise that particular cantrip to 1st-level.)
I just figure spotting every last magic trap or geegaw without even a roll is a little too powerful for a cantrip :). Not that that’s an issue with people using cantrips for powerful effects by going outside the box*, but mindlessly casting Detect Magic is firmly inside the box.
I am still aching of setting my Create Water + Bags of Holding = “flooded dungeon, every breathing thing dead” plan into motion
Aside: Last session, my (5th edition) D&D group really did get past what was supposed to be a challenging encounter by flooding a dungeon. We used Control Water, though: Create Water would have been way too slow.
And I acknowledged upthread that Detect Magic probably is a bit too powerful at-will, but that’s a problem with that specific spell, not with cantrips in general. And even there, there are workarounds: You don’t have to be all that high level before it’s justifiable for everything in a dungeon to be radiating magic.
Someone powerful enough to design a magic trap is powerful enough to know how detect magic works, and to design a workaround: line the trap with lead, put the magic components behind some stone, etc. If a magic-trapper doesn’t take these basic measures, that’s very silly. (Were I running an adventure, I’d modify it in this way where appropriate).
If I were to rule zero anything, it’d be to say that illusion magic extends its illusion to detect magic, and that it requires a will save to detect figments, and that glamers can only be detected with killer perception checks preceding the detect magic.
As for finding geegaws? I WANT my players to find the geegaws! How sad is it when they leave the geegaw there to rot in the dungeon?
