I have been in several relationships that crashed and burned because the woman in question gave a marriage ultimatum (demanded a firm commitment towards marriage) relatively soon into the relationship, often mere months in or when we had spent only a few dozen hours together in person. I couldn’t commit that soon and things ended as a result.
Which I found baffling at the time because I had observed many relationships around me in which the man and woman were together for many months - indeed, year after year - before getting engaged. I had thought that was the norm - relationships that go for 1-3 years before getting ring-serious - but in my case I always faced pressure to commit or give a yes/no answer on the marriage question very soon into the relationship.
How do these other men/women manage to avoid the Big Question for so long while in a relationship? I’m sure I’m going by skewed subjective anecdotal experience, so just asking.
I’m not sure that there is a “norm.” In the U.S., 1-3 years before getting engaged or married – yes, I imagine that that’s not atypical. But, I also know that the pressure to get married is considerably more intense among some ethnic and (particularly conservative) religious groups. Velocity, if I may ask – how old are you, and if you live in the U.S., are you in (and dating in) an ethnic group which still has strong cultural ties to their country of origin, or a devoutly religious group?
In my (admittedly limited) dating experience, and from what I’ve seen from my own friends and relatives, after a few months, if things are going well, a couple moves into “getting serious” mode, even if they may not get engaged for another year or two. That mode typically includes:
They don’t date other people
They meet each other’s family and friends
People who know them absolutely know that they’re a couple
They take trips/vacations together
They might move in together
At that point, the couple likely is starting to think about a potential future together, of course.
I’ve had a few friends and relatives who have married very quickly. I can’t think of one of those which didn’t end up a troubled marriage.
I think you are confusing two things. Some people (maybe a man and a woman, but not necessarily) live together for years, or even decades, have multiple children, etc, all without getting married. If there are disagreements, they (as likely as not) stem from other, more fundamental reasons. (Real) example: A and B were married, A wanted children, while B did not. Bam, messy divorce. There were other issues as well, not only re. kids. OTOH I know C and D who have 4 kids and live together, own property yet were never married.
Some people want to get married, reasonably soon. Their purpose for dating is to find someone to marry. To them, staying in a relationship is a waste of time if there’s not a reasonable chance that it will lead to marriage.
And, among those who think this way, there are different amounts of time they think they should know someone before deciding they’re “the one.”
Then there are other people who either don’t want to get married, aren’t ready for marriage at this time in their lives, or are in no particular hurry to get hitched. They have other reasons for dating and relationships.
Maybe you and the women you date need to be more transparent upfront about which of these categories you fall into?
Easy for me. I make sure anyone I date understands that I don’t do marriage, it’s completely off the table. Anyone who doesn’t hold that attitude should express the attitude that they do have from the start. We live in a culture where marriage is widely regarded as the end goal, and it’s not unreasonable for folks to assume it by default if you haven’t specified otherwise.
Communication early and agreements, etc. I’m going through a prolonged separation right now and I know I would never get married again. I think I may have turned off a future dating prospect (we became good friends) because I let everyone know I’m never getting married again, though I might consider more kids at some point. Oh well, I’d rather be upfront and have no misunderstandings. Some people have that as a goal and some don’t. In my case, sometimes you and those in your likely dating market already have been there done that and aren’t the type (I’ve never understood how people can have 3-4 or more marriages) to make the same mistake again. Others couple up early on with the same expectations. I know a late-20s couple who’ve been together a few years and neither want kids or marriage.
I think a lot of people are so desperate (it’s understandable, I’ve been very lonely most of my life) that if they find someone to agree to be in a relationship they throw out some requirements and just sort of hope they can avoid those things or renegotiate at some point. Then of course you have people looking to “change” others, like “If I love this person and treat them well they will eventually agree to meet my needs” and that never works.
There can be cultural expectations. I grew up Mormon and it expectation was that young men went on missions from age 19 to 21 and got married as soon as they got back. Young women got married. Period. Young men returning from missions would frequently get engaged to the first woman they dated after their return, and often got married withing months of meeting.
I had female friends in high school who went to BYU specifically to find a guy to get married quickly. The age for women to go on missions had been 21 while it was 19 for men, specifically because women were to get married soon. Only if they were old maids(!) could they go on missions. The ages have changed now and I don’t know if the same pressures are there.
In Japan, they used to have “arranged” marriages which where someone set up the two and then they would date. It would be expected that the couple would decide very early (maybe within a month?) if they were going to get married or not. If not, then they would break up.
Previously, it had been that women were to be married by 25. In Japan, they have a custom of eating Christmas cakes on Christmas Eve. Anything not sold by the 25 were the leftoevers, so were unmarried women at 25.
That has long changed, but then there was an expectation around 30. Lately a lot of Japanese women have wanted to get married before 40.
In these two cultures, Mormons and Japanese, there was a lot of pressure to get married quickly at certain ages.
My bolding.
I have to presume that this was some sort of long distance relationship, but how does that happen?
My brother-in-law and his girlfriend of maybe 8 years don’t get married because they get more government benefits being single (and living together). So romantic…
I’ve been back with my boyfriend for about 2.5 years now. I don’t see us getting married. We’re 40 and 41.
I say “back” because we first got together when we were 30 and 31. We were together a year or so then drifted apart but I kept a candle burning for him. After 7 or 8 years of soul searching and massive growth we got back together.
In the intervening years I really really got comfortable and strong with being alone. Now we’re in a comfortable relationship where I’m still good with being alone and not looking to change my existence to be with a partner.
So I’ve got my house and he’s got his house. I’ve got my finances and he’s got his. I’m totally in love with the guy and want to spend the rest of my life with him but the arrangement we have is just fine with me.
We have a family friend who has always been in a relationship like this with his girlfriend, as long as I’ve known them. It works for them. So far it’s working for us.
FWIW I would like to marry him, I think it would be financially beneficial to both of us. But it wouldn’t be circumstancially beneficial to him. So I’d rather have this unmarried dual home existence with him than to be completely without him.
I have a sibling who identifies now as non-binary as was considered a girl at birth. They have been in a long term relationship with a cis woman so they couldn’t marry for twenty-however years, even though they live together. My sibling’s partner is divorced and for some reason there is a financial arrangement with her exhusband which would end if she remarries. It’s OK they live together but would end if she got married.
I think they avoid it by making it very clear from the beginning that they’re not in a rush to get married.
Side note: I always cringe when I hear someone gave their partner the “Marry me or lose me” ultimatum. I’m sure it’s worked out well for some couples, but to me it means the other person saw marrying the partner as the lesser of two evils. One person wanting marriage and the other giving in doesn’t seem like a strong start. Again, I’m sure there are exceptions.
How? Perhaps it’s my generation, but dating for years before marriage just makes sense.
My Wife and I lived together for a couple of years before we got married. She asked me. It was a practical decision as much as an emotional one. And it made our families happy. We KNEW we where a couple, so what the heck. We already owned property together and at the time where planning on building on it.
After 24 years we are both still very independent people. We never combined bank accounts for instance. She buys her car, I buy my car. Of course we consult each other on big purchases. We do split up bills and such to make it fair as I make more than her. We just share, and make sure neither person is struggling in any way.
We where mid 30’s when we married, and both owned homes. We sold her home and she moved into mine. I did put her on the deed to ‘my’ house. And we are on each others bank accounts. But that’s just a practical matter.
I have a sibling who has lived with his partner for 25 years without getting married. They have two children, both grown now.
When they first got together the partner would have had to give up some support from a previous spouse. When that ended, they realized there would be a big tax penalty (day they made $150k each back in the 2000-2005 era). By the time the “marriage penalty” was killed in the 2017 tax code revisions for most people, their income (both amount and type) had gotten to the stage where it would still apply to them.
They are very, very, coin operated people. So they aren’t going to “give up $20k per year for a meaningless piece of paper”. My rather devout parents have gotten over it. Everyone refers to the spouse as a spouse-in-law. But not directly as the siblings spouse.
Now that we are in our 50s we know tons of people our age living together for years and years “without benefit of clergy” as my parents would say. Mostly people who got divorced in their late 30s or 40s. I think mostly they are put off the idea of marriage. There might be financial elements at play as well.
“She’s working on her PhD; now is not the time to make big life decisions” was our excuse. Of course people do get married and even have kids in grad school. Maybe they’re just more on top of things than either of us was. It’s just hard to spend much quality time with someone when you’re working days, nights, and weekends. And then I got a job out of town so we were long distance for a while.
One set of parents (a second marriage for both) found this reasonable. The other, who got married quickly after meeting in the military so they would be mostly assigned near each other, found this odd.
I have been with my partner for 10 years now. I love her, she seems to love me, too. She said early on that she does not believe in marriage, which is fine by me. If she wanted to get married, cool! If we stay together without being married, cool!