I see a decent amount of threads in GQ that amount to fairly basic arithmetic. Roughly equivalent to “I have a block of iron A” x B" x C", how much does it weigh?"
To me, this seems trivial. So, why isn’t it? Poll above (assuming I don’t botch this thread).
Welp, got a 504 time out and no options.
So, options here:
[ol]
[li]Don’t understand how to formulate that type of problem.[/li][li]Had a bad experience w/ math or other mental block.[/li][li]Lazy - would rather ask someone else instead.[/li][li]Unpleasant - would rather ask someone else instead.[/li][li] Other.[/li][/ol]
I guess I am missing something here, but how are people supposed to know offhand how much iron weighs to figure out that problem? That doesn’t seem like anything near common knowledge.
We’re all good at different things. Some people are good at math and some people aren’t. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. To me, this seems trivial. 
I think a lot of “math ineptness” can be blamed on how people were educated in mathematics as kids. If people are taught a subject poorly or in a way that makes them hate it, then they won’t have much competency in it.
I mean, I would google it.
I guess that would fall under 1? Or maybe 3.
Oh, OK. That isn’t how I read the OP. It seemed like you were saying that the problem of “I have a block of iron A” x B" x C", how much does it weigh?" is in itself basic arithmetic that could be easily solved *without *getting any help.
Without another person doing it for you, yes. I wouldn’t consider looking up the density in a reference help. If you do, then consider the problem of finding the volume. The arithmetic is mechanically the same.
I would be interested in hearing about this from people who consider themselves “bad” at math. I’m currently an engineering undergrad and I’ve completed all the required math and physics courses (all with desired grade outcomes, for whatever that’s worth) but I hesitate to consider myself “good” at math (tutoring someone else would be right out). It’s also worth noting that my initial foray into college ('03-'04) met with disastrous grade outcomes in math.
In case my self-evaluation has any merit, I seemed to do a decent job developing my own algorithms or processes for solving problems, although these were often pretty distant or entirely disconnected from the foundations they rely on. For example, I can easily integrate a polynomial but I’d be at a loss these days to explain what exactly I’m doing and why my integration happens to give the area underneath the line defined by that polynomial.
I think this is pretty much it.
I was in school through the 80s and early 90s, and I was still taught the old way, which was basically just rote learning with a fairly rigid formula:
“Here’s a problem.
Here’s how you solve this problem.
Here’s a ditto with a bunch of other problems you can solve the same way.
Here’s a homework assignment of more problems you can solve the same way.
You have now learned this math!”
Notice in there is never the word “why,” as in “this is why doing it that way works” which is really the entire point of the whole thing, isn’t it? The really smart kids already knew, the above average kids figured it out on their own, and everyone else just memorized that one way just long enough to squeak by on the test.
I have a couple of theories:
Some people simply have a difficult time grasping the concepts. It’s not their fault; it’s just the way their brains are wired.
Bad math teachers in elementary school and high school. I think this is the major culprit. And I have an additional theory on why this is the case: most math teachers hate math. Which results in the students hating math.
Yeah, I’m kind of the same way. What do we consider “good” at math?
People like me or Tabco able to eventually complete the math requirements for a degree in engineering?
People like the data scientists who do the actual work on the projects I manage?
People who can do complex calculations in their head?
People with the wherewithall to look up the specific gravity of iron and complete the OP’s math problem?
Imagine being a little kid and doing exactly what your teacher is telling you to do but still getting it wrong. You check, you double check, you triple check your answer and it’s still wrong. Everyone else can see it’s wrong but you can’t see it until it’s pointed out at you. You’re a smart kid, surely you just aren’t paying enough attention and that’s why you are making these careless stupid mistakes. Everyone calls you careless and lazy. You internalize these facts. You grow up knowing you are careless and lazy. Eventually you come up with techniques to combat your problems–now instead of having someone tell you their phone number you have them call you on your phone and save their contact that way, instead of trying to calculate a tip (and worrying you did it wrong and undertipped the server) you use your phone, you google words to see if you’ve spelled them correctly. You see these crutches as further evidence that you are lazy. Everyone around you is looking at you, hurry up, it’s easy, just double the final total and move the decimal over one space, why are you taking so long, just do it, it’s easy, we’re all waiting on you to just do it…
Then in your late 30s you realize you have dyslexia and dyscalculia.
You’re lucky you realized it that early. I don’t have dyslexia but I do have dyscalculia and I learned about it when I was in my late fifties by stumbling on an article by a UK scientist. Anything to do with numbers or spatial relationships (think: reading maps, understanding machinery, chemistry, building anything that requires measuring, calculating tips, balancing your bank statement, telling time on an analog clock …) is just white space, or a thick white mist.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with how hard you try, or how good or bad your teachers were.
I’d say that the first three examples are people who are really good at math.
I’d suggest that “good at math” (as opposed to “bad at math”) would be someone who can comfortably do the basic sorts of tasks that require math in everyday life, like:
I’m pretty awful at it, all things considered. I’m not stupid (really I’m not). I can do arithmetical operations in my head. But I forget how to do certain kinds of things and when I do remember the procedure I don’t remember why it’s how to do it. It all feels arcane, like doing a specific incantation and sprinkling a specific elixir. Not for everything, mind you: I never forget how to obtain the average of simple numbers for instance. I can calculate a 20% tip on the restaurant bill pretty dependably. But… “It was going to take us 45 minutes at 55 miles per hour to get to Ronkonkoma when we were theoretically leaving the house at 5. We didn’t get out the door until 5:35 thanks to you, so how fast do we need to drive to get there in no more than an hour becuase that’s when the show starts?” Uhhh…
Would the ability to do these things make a person good at math, or good at arithmetic? I can do everything on the list here, mostly in my head. Give me a problem covered in the second month of first year high/middle school algebra and I’d probably have a 50% shot at getting the right answer. Make it second year algebra, and the problem may look slightly familiar but I’d probably have no idea what to do beyond “if you do something to one side, do it to the other.” Any math beyond that, unless you count statistics, may as well be hieroglyphics. I consider myself bad at math; certainly I’m “bad” compared to my verbal skills.
I think in my case it’s mostly #2, with some of #1, and also #4 caused by #2.
I joke that I’ve forgotten 110% of the math I’ve learned in high school.
It’s not entirely true, I remember some things that others seem to have forgotten, like order of operations.
And I know how to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius without a calculator and without looking it up, but I’d still have to use paper and pencil, and it’s more just a one-off thing I know rather than demonstrating a good general knowledge of math.
As for my bad experiences with high-school math, I think it stems from a few things: not being able to afford the advanced calculator that the rest of the students’ parents could, the fact that I was in advanced math until my last year of high school and other students were saying it wasn’t taught all that well, and just high school being overwhelming in general.
Also, I haven’t needed to study math since my last year of high school, which was almost two decades ago.
Also, it might be argued, does everyone need to be good at math? And what does “good at math” mean?
That’s me, as well. I’m pretty fast at simple arithmetic, but I flamed out when I got to geometry and algebra. I actually was more accurate when I intuited the answer than when I tried to solve using the formulas.
Hmm. Several responses are talking about the mechanics of the math (mentally math, with paper, whatever). There are a couple things I should have been more specific on in my OP. The specific scenario I was thinking of was making threads to ask these sorts of questions on the SDMB. So, on a computer and therefore have access to a calculator (Google will do in a pinch).
Like, I don’t find it weird for someone to not immediately know that $2.00 / 3 ~= $0.67. However if that person had a calculator I would find it weird barring some condition.
eta Responses on manually doing it help and are probably basically the same answer? Once you dislike something enough, just eliminate it when you can.
I can use Google?
So googling how to do that kind of math problem, the actual process, isn’t cheating?
