“When you don’t ask for what you want and then blame me for not getting it for you, I feel hurt. I don’t like being yelled at. Is there some way we can work on this together?”
If the answer is “No” in either word or deed, then don’t marry them. (I would also stop bedding them.)
If you’re already married or children are involved then I suggest counseling and/or Buddhist meditation (maybe).
A compromise can often be reached, I have learned that is often better to be happy than to be right.
Still irks me though…
That would drive me up a damn wall. Ask for what you want. Odds are pretty good that I’ll do it, buy it, whatever. Odds are pretty good I won’t mind doing it/buying it/whatever. Odds are 99.99999999999999% that I will not get subtle hints. Just not wired that way.
Is there any particular book of hers that you’d recommend?
I’m currently reading a book by Barbara and Allen Pease on the subject.
Her classic work on the subject is titled, You Just Don’t Understand. I think the subtitle is “Men and Women in Conversation.”
I have a similar problem when I’m torn about whether I want something. On vacation recently, I found myself really really wanting to stop at a pie shop. I’m trying to lose 10 pounds, so I should not be eating pie. Yet for some reason my animal brain was almost screaming at me that I truly wanted pie. It nagged at me for an entire day that I wanted pie, but I also didn’t want it. So even when my husband said on our last day there, “Hey, the pie store is open; decide now if you want to stop,” and I reflexively said “no!” (partially out of alarm since we were literally passing by and he’d have to stop the car fast), I was still vaguely mopey about it. I didn’t take it out on my husband, but man, part of my brain really wanted that pie.
Passive–aggressive behavior
Signs and symptoms
Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others
I try to pointedly ignore people who engage in this behavior. They’ll learn to communicate directly or do without what they want.
This reminds me of an exchange between Joe Pernice and Joyce Linehan in Pernice To Me.
My Dad does this sometimes.
While walking through a shopping mall one Xmas we passed a kiosk selling all things sheepskin…slippers, hats, jackets, etc.
Said He, “Whatever you do. Don’t get me any sheepskin slippers!”
I say, “OK.” Thinking Dad doesn’t wear slippers anyway so I already knew he didn’t want them.
My boyfriend at the time, who was with us, whispered in my ear, “Your Dad wants you to get him those slippers!”
“You think so?” I ask.
Boyfriend: “Definitely.”
He was right.
Heh. My husband will sometimes ask me if I want to help him do something. I usually say “Nope”, and he gets mad. Then I say that I will help him if he wants me to, but it’s not something that I really want to do. Or he’ll ask me if I want to make him a sandwich. Usually I don’t. Sometimes I’ll do it, if I think he deserves one, but if we are BOTH sitting down, watching TV, then I see no reason that I should get up to fix HIM a sandwich. If I’m fixing myself one, then yeah, I’ll ask him if he wants one. But I don’t play that sort of game.
Oh sheesh, Mr. Athena does something like that. We’ll be driving somewhere, and he’ll ask “Hey, would you like to stop at <location X>?” I say “no, not really.” After years of this, I’ve figured out that he’s saying that he’d like to stop at Location X and is just asking for my approval. Life would be much easier if he’d say “I’d like to stop at <location x>, do you mind?” but he’s just not wired that way. And he bitches at me about MY communication skills! :smack:
But my neighbor takes the cake as far as non-obvious asking. A few years ago, Mr. Athena was learning to play the bagpipes. On a nice day, he’d walk up and down our driveway to practice marching, always between about 10am and 5pm at the latest, never early in the morning or late at night.
During this time, I got a call from the lady who lives next door. I’d never spoken to her before. We were in the midst of a gypsy moth invasion, both our yards are heavily wooded, and as a result, the caterpillars were everywhere. They were all over the trees, hung down from the trees on their little silk strings, and in general were pretty gross.
We’d lived in our house for several years, but had never met the neighbors (we have large lots, we can’t even see their house, so it’s not like we were being unfriendly, there’s just no way to easily run into them.) So I get a call one night:
“Hello, this is <neighborlady>”
“Oh hello!” I say.
“I just wanted to call because we’ve got a lot of these caterpillars everywhere in our yard! Do you have them?”
“Oh yeah, they’re all over everything. I can’t even sit on our deck without having to watch out for them.”
“oooh… you have a deck? That you sit on…? <insert 5-10 minutes of her telling me that she’d never have a deck because decks are outside and there are BUGS outside.>” I’m nodding and making appropriate noises, all the while thinking “WTF kind of woman is this who doesn’t have a deck or a porch because sometimes there are bugs out there” and “why the hell is she calling me, anyway?”
So she finishes up the deck conversation, and gets back to the caterpillars: “We have a lot of caterpillars on our trees, and my husband has been vacuuming them off.”
Huh? Vacuuming the trees? We are in a heavily forested area. Both the neighbors and I have several acres of wooded land. There is no way on earth that vacuuming the caterpillars off the trees is going to do anything. But I don’t say anything, and just let her talk. At this point I’m really wondering where this conversation is going.
She goes on: “Some days he’s vacuuming near your property. I just wanted to make sure the noise wasn’t bothering you.”
Ummm… ok. I hadn’t noticed any noise. I explain this to her and say it’s no problem. She says a few more things, we say goodbye, and hang up. All in all, the conversation went on for about 20 minutes. I’m completely like :dubious: when I get off the phone, it was just such a weird conversation.
A week later, I find a notecard in our mailbox, no stamp, no return address. It’s a handwritten note, very polite, from neighbor lady. It seems Mr. Athena’s bagpiping had been bothering her, and she would appreciate it if he never, ever, ever played outside ever again.
It only came to me a couple days later that the phone call and the note were connected. I’m pretty sure I was supposed to realize that HER apologizing about her husband making noise was really about MY husband making noise and that it bothered her.
The whole thing was almost surreal. Unfortunately for her, there are no laws in our area about making noise during the day (or at night even), and he really only plays during the day, so just had to live with it. Our other neighbors have gone out of their way to tell us how much they enjoy his playing, so she loses on principal. Though if she hadn’t been so utterly weird about the whole thing, we may have tried to work with her on what times he would practice.
Maybe she was just trying to score some weed.
I guess I’ve gotten really good at it. If my wife wants a frosty and I hear, Look a Wendys, I’ll just automatically pull in and ask what she wants.
HA!
I hate, hate, hate people who do this, and have said so to everyone I know, and have even bitched out strangers for doing it to me (usually only if I’m really cranky, though).
But even I get, and understand the Frosty thing. Why on earth would anyone, with joy in their voice, point out the existence of a Wendys, and ask if anyone wanted a Frosty, unless they were inviting you to have a Frosty with them?
By saying no, you were declining her invitation. That’s not even a subtext. I’ll use examples; the two conversations below are identical.
Q: Would anyone like a Frosty?
A: Not really.
Q: Would you like to go to the movies with me?
A: Not really.
See how that works? You were declining an invitation.
By asking her if she wanted a Frosty, you were challenging her to make an unreasonable demand on your time, since you had already declined the invitation. Again, examples.
Q: Would you like a Frosty?
A: No
Q: Would you like me to drive you to the movie theater, hold your hand while you buy the ticket, buy you popcorn and then sit in the lobby while you watch the movie?
A: No
A lot of women, particularly older women, were raised to never be a bother to anyone, to always put everyone else first, and to never demand anything for themselves. It’s a hard habit to break, because you aren’t aware you are doing it. Even I would give an older woman some slack for stuff like this. And really, there wasn’t any subtext here. She was inviting the entire party to go get Frostys, and you all told her to f*** off.
The bit about getting pissy later is less reasonable, I’ll admit.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT! Wrong Answer!
The FIL knew he was supposed to say yes. He was just being an ass.
I have a “friend” who asks for stuff in this way, but also misses the ends off her sentences. I don’t know why she does this - it’s as if she loses confidence in what she’s saying and just trails off.
Would you like some pizza?
“Well I don’t know but, sort of, I like pizza, but…”
Five minutes later she goes “would it be ok if…?” while taking a slice of pizza.
Let’s go to this bar, I suggest.
“Hmm, that bar… sort of, hmm, the other bar is… you know? Sort of…”
Meaning “I want to go to this other bar instead.”
In addition to this, she doesn’t take responsibility for her own shit. “I’m just going to… you know? Can you look after my bag, because… sort of…” then wanders off and disappears for three hours, leaving me, who wants to do something else, with her bag. Can I call her cell to get her to come and take care of business? No, because it’s in the fucking bag.
After the second time this happened I got wise to it. Last time we were out she asked if I could sort of… look after… hmm? And I said “no, sorry, you need to look after your own shit”. She looked very hurt.
But I dropped my guard the next day, and let her borrow an article of my clothing, which she then lost.
You see why I put “friend” in quotes.
Off on a tangent:
I recall a fictional story about a family hanging around the house, when one person thinks the other folks might enjoy going into town for the afternoon. What follows is a conversation in which each person concludes that one or more of the other family members wants to go into town, and none of them is dissuaded from that belief since none of them is willing to clearly and explicitly declare their non-interest. Ultimately they all pile in the car and arrive in town, and shortly after come to the realization that none of them really wanted to be there, and that everyone agreed to the trip because that’s what they thought everyone else wanted to do.
Anyone else seen this story on the web somewhere?
I remember reading it here on this message board, I believe. It was in a discussion about social dynamics of some kind…
Here it is Abilene paradox - Wikipedia
I seem to recall a similar situation recounted in one of C. S. Lewis’s non-Narnia works…