Yeah, what Shantih said. ‘Sorry, I can’t on Tuesday’ is the end of the conversation, and you have to stick to that, even if other people try not to. If you get asked why, the reason is ‘Because I’m afraid it’s impossible’ or ‘Because Tuesday doesn’t work for me’. Repeat as needed. No more reason than that, ever.
Also, answer the legit question they should’ve asked, rather than the non-legit one they actually asked. The answer to ‘Why won’t Tuesday work? What are you doing?’ isn’t ‘I have to do blah blah blah,’ it’s yet another round of ‘Tuesday won’t work for me. How about Saturday?’
Same for the dating thing. Jesus, do not ever get into any discussion of why a casual date didn’t work (unless there’s one single concrete and true reason: ‘Because you are moving to Armenia’). Partly because, as you’ve found out, that conversation makes everyone involved want to brain themselves, but also because the real reason is almost always ‘It’s not clicking for me.’ Which you could keep repeating, but I think I’d stick with ‘No, thanks, I enjoyed our date but I don’t see it going anywhere.’ (Why not? Because I don’t see it going anywhere. It was nice to meet you, though.)
Also, same as Hello Again, I also read cmyk’s post as ‘holding a rabid, feral raccoon’. I thought, Damn, this guy comes prepared.
I like Miss Manners for the same reason. I almost made a thread once asking what advice she’s given that people have liked and used but I figured nobody read her!
I do agree with her on the dodging of social requests from people you do not wish to socialize with. The exception to this (for me) is when it comes to someone who is asking you in a dating situation because it seems like leading them on. They may think “Well, she/he must want to go out with me” if you’re not direct. Trying to put them off hoping they’ll get it can give the wrong impression.
Ugh with your Dad. Can he be distracted? Can you rephrase to him whatever he’s being pushy about and say something non-committal and move on to another subject, or is he like a dog with a bone and cannot be dissuaded?
Now, now. I know you know I was just joking. But I admit I was a little jealous. I’ve had to put up with my fair share of insistent, clingy people in the past, and indeed, they do suck mightily. Unfortunately, at this particular point in my life, I have the opposite problem: I’m the one always having to take “no” for an answer (and I do, graciously). So my first reaction was, damn, I’d love to have someone who wants to spend time with me that badly.
But then, I thought a little bit more about it, and remembered what those people are actually like. It’s sad when you have to tell a friend to back off, but can get downright scary when it’s a guy you’ve been on one - one! - date with. And it’s not even flattering, because it’s not about you. It’s all about how lonely and desperate the other person is - you’re just a port in a storm.
I did once say almost exactly this. Worked like a charm.
He is difficult. I’m learning to push him off. Basically he kind of forgets he’s retired and we work, so he thinks it’s no problem to take up an entire Saturday. For the longest time he had his clothes here so every spring and fall I’d be expected to take out an entire Saturday for him to come up, go through all of his clothes, rearrange everything painstakingly slowly, etc. I can’t leave the house or go anywhere while he is here, and my poor SO, though I tell him to go on and go out with friends, but he feels like this is HIS house!
It’s not like we even do anything fun. And he’s old now, so he tells the same stories 1000x and bores the piss out of my poor SO, especially since his English is so atrocious.
If a woman turns downs a guy’s request for date, and the guy needs to have the basis of this rejection explained to him before he realizes that he really and truly being rejected, I don’t need to know anything else about the situation to know why he’s not getting that 2nd date. It’s because he needs to have too much explained to him before he understands the obvious. That is not sexy.
I think that’s a false and rather harsh assessment of 99% of the times this happens.
The guy geniunely wants to know why he’s being rejected. As far as he knows, it could be because of something easily fixable but you just don’t want to tell him.
That’s the thing. The guy is lacking certain self-esteem and social skills if he thinks that. There isn’t anything to “fix” when two people just dont click. Somehow the wont-take-no-er has got an idea that there is something attractive in being willing to change yourself entirely to please someone else. There isn’t.
And there is certainly nothing “easy” to fix about deficient social skills, desperation, and no self-esteem.
It does seem kind of mean, and you know, usually I don’t have a problem telling people I’m done then leaving it be. The way I see it seems to be more or less the way you do: I’ve explained myself already, and if you want to keep pestering me, I’m going to tell you to sod off and not think much about your feelings considering you don’t seem care much about mine. But feh, I have a hard time telling my friends to pipe down. One in particular I’ve lied so much to, I can’t even keep track of it anymore. Maybe I need to come up with some sort of lies spreadsheet. I’ve even dragged other people into my big phony stories. Once I went out with her and another friend…
Me, to Other Friend: Oh, btw, tell Friend I was with you yesterday in case she asks.
Other Friend: What?
Me: Yeah, I kind of told her I went out with you because I couldn’t blow her off.
Other Friend: Oh… kaaaaay..
Me: (Feeling like a big dumb jerk)
No idea why I feel so bad about turning down guys, though. I don’t know, I guess I maybe sympathize with them a little. Asking people out is hard. I’ve only done it once, and while I suppose it was technically pretty painless, it felt like I was scaling Mt. Everest at the time. I only feel bad when it’s guys who have been perfectly nice to, though. If you’re some jackass hammering me with bad pick up lines, I can drop the “Please go away forever, dickface” pretty fast.
All right, I know I need to grow a pair, but lies… they’re so much easier! And oddly, I call my friends on their bullshit for everything else, and yet this. I make no sense as a human being.
Who cares why I said no? I could say no because I didn’t like his hat and never tell him why, and he should be okay with that. And anyway, when I reject someone, I just say no. I don’t give any wishy washy I-don’t-knows or maybes. I just say no, two letters, one word, end of sentence. When they ask why, I used to answer honestly, sort of like in the scenario above. Now I just tell them a bunch of bullshit.
Hmm, okay. No.
Oh my god, you’re one of them! throws rocks at Chimera
There’s a huge difference between “May I ask why?” where a guy is genuinely looking for feedback and trying to argue someone into changing their mind. I don’t think anyone here is complaining about the first type. It’s the second type that is scary because it shows that he doesn’t respect your wishes, and you don’t know how far he’s going to carry it. Pretty much every woman I’ve met has a story of a guy who got nasty after she told him no, anything from calling her a bitch to physical violence to stalking and rape attempts. Try living with that threat over your head and see how often you want to be direct about saying no.
Okay, let me approach this from the opposite direction.
You’ve gone on a first date with somebody. You’re not picking out wedding rings but you enjoyed the date and you would like to go out with this person again.
So you’re happy when the person calls you up and suggests the two of you go out for dinner and a movie this Friday. But there’s a problem - you have an unbreakable commitment on Friday. And it’s something you’d really prefer not to discuss in detail, like you’re taking your mother to see her probation officer.
If you just tell the person a straight no, they might assume you hadn’t enjoyed the first date and not ask you out again. So how do you tell the person no, you can’t go out on a date that particular Friday while also conveying the message that you are interested in other dates?
Uh, you propose another day? “Sorry, Chuck, I’m booked Friday. Let’s do Saturday, yes?” You only give a stone cold no when there’s no interest at all. If there is, tis why God invented rescheduling.
“Oh, I wish I could, but I’m already busy on Friday night. How does the next weekend look for you?” (Or, what MeanOldLady just said. Must learn to refresh screen more often.)
Or even leaning more heavily on the positive: Oh, sure, I’d love to see you again! Friday doesn’t work, but (when else would be convenient/how is your weekend looking)?"
And he’s old now, so he tells the same stories 1000x and bores the piss out of my poor SO, especially since his English is so atrocious.
