I guess I should have used a different word. Sorry, I don’t always look up every word.
What does this ban rod look like, anyways? 
How is it that you set your biblical argument aside so quickly in favor of Illinois statutes? And why can’t you keep your Seinfeld characters straight? Damn it, it was Vandelay Industries who had the latex factory, not Varnsen!
Kel, given the fact that you are feigning lack of understanding as a means of defying Veb’s warnings, and then claiming that defiance does not require understanding… well, I think I’ll just let that stand on its own.
Now, I would like you to explain something to me.
A ten-month-old is not able to understand verbal instructions/commands. If said child is unable to understand, then the child is obviously unable to obey said commands. You advocate beating a child with a rod as punishment for failing to obey commands that it is unable to understand.
How is this “a loving act”?
Kel worked at Vandelay when George was looking for a job in latex.
I think I am going to leave this thread. I said what I had to say. I don’t think this back and forth will do any good. Maybe when things have to cooled down I might start a thread about children and punishment, but not for a month or so when tempers have cooled/
All right then, let’s play this game from another angle.
You are advising a couple you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about (except what’s in a couple of posts written on the internet,) to hit their kids with a stick, trusting that they’ll understand the arbitrary (and arguable) fine line between proper corporal discipline and child abuse. Nowhere in this thread have you explained anything about proper technique; length, thickness, or stiffness of the rod; strength of swing - etc. etc. In other words, the chance of them getting it just right on the first try is fairly slim, yes? In other other words, what you are advocating could easily turn out to be, in their hands, child abuse. Do you seriously, honestly, want to casually tell someone to hit their kid with a stick, knowing that there are so many people out there who get it so badly wrong? Do you want to take responsibility for that?
(No offense, fessie and hubby. It’s clear Karl’s advice here is falling on deaf ears.)
I’m picturing a wooden dowel, most likely Hickory, of about two inches in diameter. It probably tapers to a whip like tip, and is cased in black leather. Proper application of said rod requires the weilder to wear leather boots.
I defy you to make me understand your point, if you have one. Pithy answers won’t fly here.
Hey, you gotta start somewhere .
Does he try to do stuff while the kids are running around? Could be he’s being frustrated by the constant interruptions. The sooner he realizes the folly of trying to ‘get something done’ while the kids are loose - even if it’s just watching a TV show - the happier he’ll be.
I have twin daughters (they’ll be 2 in February) and they were exactly the same way at that age. Between the two of us trying to do the ‘gentle’ thing someone else mentioned and the growing ability of the other one to fight back, it’s abated to a large extent.
I never cease to be amazed at what they understand
You really are a fucking asshole.
You just get weirder and weirder.
At first you were a douchebag, but occasionally you said something profound and/or funny.
Is there a particular reason why your posts now always concern children and violence, or at least violent death?
Ok, so you hit your child with a stick, don’t leave a mark, and it’s not child abuse. Hmm. What about the emotional and mental abuse you are inflicting at the very same time? Does that not count? Do children not have emotions? Any time you cause a child to feel pain, whether they remember the specific incident or not, those instances stick with them for longer than you think. After you’ve hit your child a few times with that stick, every time you come near them, they will be expecting to feel pain, and will consequently cower from you and avoid going near you. Is that the kind of parent you want to be? One who has his child(ren) so afraid of him that they don’t even want to be around him at all? Do you call that love? I call that isolation. Again, I know what it’s like to grow up being abused and afraid, and as I said before, I would much rather be called to identify my father’s body than even speak to him on the phone. This is what you’re looking forward to when you insist that children must be beaten to be controlled. You are truly one sick, twisted individual, and I feel sorry not only for your children, but for anyone who knows you.
So Kel, does your church give parental classes on the proper form in rod wielding? You know, so it can be done properly as to avoid injury? Perhaps you have a website link that describes the technique?
Unfortunately this thread has been pretty well hijacked by one extreme poster. The OP asked a geuine question and was getting some excellent feedback. I don’t want to lock this down, throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
Please leave Kel and his postings out of this thread from now on or it will have to shut down. He has decided, wisely, to cease promoting his argument. In fairness to all, stop the fight and let the thread go back to the OP’s intent.
TVeblen
Pit mod
When my son was 10 months (he’s now 2), he didn’t respond to verbal instruction. I had the house child-proofed so there wasn’t much he could get into, but the things he did find, I just took away from him and handed him one of his own toys. He would go on playing with the toy I gave him as if nothing had happened. That didn’t last very long, though, as he soon gave in to throwing a screaming fit when ever something he wanted was taken away (which he still does). It was then that I would pick him up, take him to his crib, lay him down, and stand just outside the doorway waiting for him to calm down. There is nothing wrong with letting a child scream to their hearts content, when you know for a fact that nothing is wrong, and the child is just madder than hell that you took that figurine away from him. It took him maybe 5 minutes to forget all about it and find another toy, and then I would bring him back out of his room.
Nowadays, when he throws his fits when he doesn’t get his way, I’ll admit at first I hollered at him to COOL IT! That only lead to him screaming louder. Now I just turn and look at something else, not paying any attention to his tantrum, and he gets quiet real fast when he realizes he’s not getting any attention.
Some kids throw fits so bad, they’ll hold their breath literally until they pass out. The only thing you need to do is be there to make sure they don’t hit their head on something. When the child passes out, his body will automatically start breathing again. If you make a big deal out of it, the child will know that this is a sure fire way to get what he wants. If tantrums of any kind are ignored, they usually stop pretty quick.
Go to your library, check out a few books that have been mentioned here (I forget what they were), and give them to your husband. Someone mentioned putting your situation in the same ranks as training a puppy, and I think that’s a very good idea. He needs to understand that a 10 month old baby just isn’t capable of understanding verbal instruction, all he/she hears is a loud noise coming from Daddy. Physical intervention, i.e. removing the not-for-kids object, or removing the child from the area, is probably your best bet. My son learned after a few times of an object being taken away that it just wasn’t for him, and he eventually left everything on that shelf alone.
Can you tell I’ve read just about every book out there…
The thing is, 10 month olds can begin to understand verbal instruction, but this is a very hands on process. eye contact and facial expression and lots of connections with what is being said to the desired result. If he wants them to learn faster, he should be talking to them while getting up and making things the way he wants.
“Stop hitting the table.” Followed by a swift removal of the child from the vicinity of the table will teach them much much faster than yelling at them from across the room.
My daughter could follow simple verbal instructions by her first birthdayand dis so with some relaibility. She started obeying some verbal instructions around 9 months, for which she was well praised. She is 19 months old and follows instructions fairly reliably and well. I am sure it helps that she knows that we will get up and follow through and make her obey certain instructions, and we thank her for doing as we ask and praise her quite often. What makes me certain is that she still tests us at times and she beams under our praise.
I heard somewhere that men tend to overestimate the abilities of children, and women tend to underestimate. So a man is more likely to think a 10 month old capable of rational thought, while a woman is more likely to think them unable to understand language at all.
I recommend Your Baby and Child by Penelope Leach, Ph.D. Yyour husband should be able to respect what she has to say, one Ph.D to another. I no longer have my copy or I would mail it to you - by kiddo #4, it was taking up shelf space.
You can’t be certain, but it’s possible that what your husband is modeling is what he experienced, even if he is unaware. Especially if he is unaware. Your job, unfortunately, is to get in his face and make sure he sees facts he cannot argue with. He will be frustrated. But there is no reason for him to perpetuate his own childhood experience on the kids.