People who were bullied as a kid. Does it bother you when people ask why?

Uh, we are talking about bullying. It does tend to have an impact on one’s formative years. We’re not talking about good-natured joking. It pretty much goes without saying that there’s some hurt there.

Ah, I see. So said person should shut up because certain others can’t refrain from blaming the victim. (Love the irony.) Come on. If bullying was unicorns farting rainbows it wouldn’t even be necessary to have these conversations. Shutting these conversations down because a few jerks can’t wrap their heads around which party was actually responsible for the bullying does a HUGE disservice to everyone. It’s that kind of fundamental thoughtlessness (“You must have done something to deserve it”) that is at the root of bullying in the first place.

The question has never bothered me, but I never talk about the issue except in retrospect. I’ve been bullied since playschool (I barely remember playschool so couldn’t give a reason), but for some reason I have never wanted to talk about it, not even when I was that young. When I was a bit older, up to about year 8,there were 2 reasons I was given: 1. That I was brown 2. That I was smart/geeky/nerdy.

Being bullied meant that I stuck with the other kids who got bullied, so I never made it to the “in” group. At first it was physical, but I fought back, so it was just verbal afterwards. Up to year 4 I was the only one who could fight in the bullied group which meant I was sticking up for them all the time, and fighting on their behalf, but when I wasn’t there things could get ugly, my friend walked out of the school because of an incident that happened when I was off ill (made me feel terrible for ages afterwards). I remember the kids would get angry when I was better than them at football (that’s soccer for the americans) so eventually I stopped playing, so that’s one of the long term effects (not really that bad lol). There’s many more I’ve become aware of as I’ve been reading into NLP, CBT, counseling etc.

And I don’t mind saying all this to anyone who asks. Bullying happens, people are evil, I don’t mind talking about it. EDIT: Unless it’s happening at the moment, then I won’t even admit it’s happening.

This is obviously one of those YMMV things. You understand that, right?

If I want to blame the victim, I’ll blame the victim. I don’t need to ask round-about questions to do this. But if someone is going to bring up how bad bullies were to them growing up, they invite questions about the specifics. Some people might phrase the question with a little more sophistication–“How did the bullies single you out, if you don’t mind me asking?” Or they may clumsily ask “For what reasons did they bully you?” A compassionate person not looking to take offense where there is none will understand the intent behind the question.

Maybe I’m an uncaring bastard, but this kind of question is sometimes useful to ask. I see people whine about “blaming the victim” all the time on this board, but you know what? Often, figuring out what makes you a target for a particular crime helps.

I lived in Stockton, CA from age 10 to 21. Go ahead and Google crime stats for the 80s and 90s. Per capita crime rates for violent crimes — rape, arson, robbery, assault, etc. — were higher in Stockton than Compton for most of my teen years. They beat us for murders, though.

As a white kid in a place where there were several different ethnic gangs, a patchwork of crime-ridden neighborhoods, and wildly variant levels of police coverage, you learned what to do to avoid being victimized. Mostly, that was avoiding certain areas, but some of it was how you dressed, carried yourself, reacted to other people.

The same way you learn how to walk through shitty neighborhoods when you have to without getting robbed, hassled, or just plain beat the fuck up, you can learn the social signals to avoid victimization in school. It’s the same shit, just a different setting.

I got bullied a bit in school. Nothing systematic, but it did happen. I know what made me a target too. I moved around to different schools. I grew up in the country. I was a smart kid — smart enough to need special treatment — so I probably got more attention than other students even in the same class. I sometimes had classes a couple of grade levels ahead with the older kids. I was socially a bit slow because I related better to adults, who mostly made sense rather than reacting emotionally and illogically like kids do.

Compounding the problem were my mother’s fundamentalist leanings and our relative poverty until I was about middle-school aged. Which meant I was on the outside of pop culture, and dressed funny in clothes that didn’t fit all that well. I was smaller than most kids until most of the way through middle school too.

If you know what makes you a target, you know what things you can and cannot change to make you look like less of a victim. In my case, I eventually learned better social skills, figured out how to make the clothes I had look less shitty, picked up some confidence and poise that made me look like less of a victim until I actually did grow, and made some friends with other oddballs.

If you’re ugly, in a wheelchair, or your skin color or something else physical is different about you, you’re probably shit out of luck. You probably won’t be able to change those things. All you can do is build a social network to protect you, make sure the legal and administrative branches of the school are aware that you’re having a problem, and don’t do the school equivalent of driving through a bad neighborhood in a nice car at night with the wrong color skin.

But a lot of the time, it’s social cues that the people who tend to be bullying victims aren’t getting. We are a social species. Yes, in an ideal world no one would be treated poorly because they are different. In reality, everyone is treated differently because of small differences in personality, appearance, social status, or just because the other person feels like it.

Should poor treatment be accepted? Hell no. Children should be held to the same standards of behavior toward other people that adults are, with appropriate corrective measures within the limits of their developing social understanding. But it’s short-sighted to treat only that side of the equation. You can vastly improve someone’s life now and in the future by figuring out what makes them a victim and, if possible and desired, changing those things to make them less of a target.

Since these things are quite often social skills, it’s entirely possible that you can quite literally change their lives. You get better jobs, acquire more friends, have a generally more positive outlook on life, and even live longer if you have good social skills. And social skills are at least somewhat teachable. Even if some people are generally poor at picking up cues, you can give them a better chance of navigating social situations if you give them explicit instructions on what to look for.

I think “why were you bullied” is often an offensive question. The better question is “why do you think they bullied you.” It shifts the blame from the victim to rationalizing why the OTHER people did something. Then the answer isn’t “because I was socially awkward.” It’s “because they thought I was socially awkward.” Now, the victim can then follow up with “and perhaps I was” if they want to introspect, but I think the more POLITE question, if you have to ask why for the sake of conversation/interview, is to at least make an effort to pretend you’re shifting the blame on the perpetrator.

Manda JO - you make some really, really good points. Great post :slight_smile:

I guess that it seems so clear-cut that people were only picked on because they were different. Tall, short, good grades, bad grades, high income family, lower income family. To ask can be seen as inviting the distinction from the people inthe room and to have to fight those battles all over again.

Here, no. I guess I was thinking of that audience back in school. Subjects like this one have a bad tendency to drag people back to those bad places in their lives. Granted, maybe it is good to go back to get it out, but reactions (possibly strong reactions) should not be unexpected.

It’s not always so, though. There were two kids in elementary school that I was mildly bullied by for… fuck if I know. If we were ever forced into some situation where we had to be together we seemed to have pretty much everything in common. I think they were just dicks. (In middle school I was picked on, but by that point I’d become socially awkward. I mean, they were still dicks, but I can at least see where it came from there)

It doesn’t bother me when people ask why I was bullied. Putting the onus on past me because of his behavior would bother me, though.

Sleel speaks truth. My parents would ask me why a kid was picking on me, and it forced me to become self aware. It’s fucking mean to insult or hurt someone, no doubt. But there’s a certain social awareness that can mitigate a lot of these issues. I could take a little extra care in how I dressed and groomed myself, for instance, so kids wouldn’t mock me as much. Not always, and I’m clear here to state that nothing justifies bullying. But picking up on social cues and how one is perceived is a valuable life skill.

I was an Air Force brat, always the new kid (but being a new kid in a context where there are always new kids is not that bad). One thing I learned to do was to take the first day or so just figuring out how the place operated. What was the social structure? Who were the kids to avoid (got into trouble, liked to fight, etc.)? What sort of attention was “good?” Doesn’t mean that I always figured it out, or that I magically fit in everywhere (I didn’t). But by the time I attended my 12th school, I was able to navigate an urban, at times violent, and poverty-stricken school without any real issues about my safety or feeling “accepted.” I was still a nerd and not terribly socially dominant. But I knew how not to look like or act like a victim.

We’ve made parallels to bullying and sexual assault, and I’d recommend The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker to folks interested in how an FBI profiler recommends that women minimize the possibility of being assaulted. One is to trust your intuition, closely observe those who take small, then larger social liberties, and to not look like a victim - in other words, pay attention to your surroundings, exude confidence (even if you don’t completely feel that way), and proceed purposefully when you’re in unfamiliar surroundings.

None of these things will completely guarantee one’s safety, but they help.

Yeah, like my little brother’s friend’s annoying the shit out of me. You can’t win because then you are just some dick who beat up a smaller, younger kid.

I think it’s a bit more complicated than dividing the world into ‘bullies’ and ‘bullied’.

It’s like “prison yard rules”. Any forced institutionalized social setting becomes a closed system. Within that system, people will naturally jockey for social position. Those unwilling or unable to achieve some minimum level of social status or choose to opt out of the process will often fall to the bottom of the structure. Because it’s a closed systems, those individuals who don’t “fit in” can’t distance themselves or find another better fitting group to socialize with. They become open to those who would increase their status through displays of intimidation.
So usually the reason “why someone bullied you” is “because you’re not like everyone else” and “they could”.
Personally, I think self-identifying as “bullied” displays a sort of victim mentality that attracts bullies. It assumes a sort of defenseless fatalism where you have no control over how you respond to a particular situation. iow, where you “picked on by a bully” or did “some asshole try to start shit with you”?

Then again, I grew up in the 80s where films like Karate Kid, Rocky, Roadhouse, and Three O Clock High were sort of the “how to” guide for dealing with bullies. Which is to say there will always be assholes who try to fuck with you and you need to figure out how to deal with them.

1 - Of course this question is loaded. If the documentarian really wanted answers, wouldn’t he get a better response by getting the reason straight from a bully?

2 - Der Trihs suspects (expects) that the bullies on this board are too wrapped up in their own bubble of awesomeness to know why they bully but I’d counter that some of the victims here did their own version of bullying. Many people here have cited intelligence as a reason why they were targeted. One poster even said that he actively flaunted his intelligence over the lesser brains of his peers. Well then isn’t that bullying? After all, isn’t it the same motivation to say “hey, nice SHOES” derisively as it is to say “hey, way to SPELL” in an equally snarky and sarcastic manner?

3 - I find the truisms like, “Bullies are cowards - they act from fear” to be frightfully inaccurate and dangerous in their message. Some bullies are cowards. Some aren’t. The bottom line is that there’s nothing different from being a bully and being mean. If you just replace “bullying” with “being mean” it all starts to come together doesn’t it? Some people do it because they’re in a position of power. Some do it because they’re self conscious of their own flaws. There are a million different causes for the same effect, no?

Like most Dopers, when faced with a question to which I don’t really have a clear answer, I’ll fall back on blaming my mother. :wink:

When I was in elementary school, there was this girl who picked on my older sister on the school bus. Eventually, my sister rode a different bus to school than I did, having moved on to junior high. Her bully did too, and the picking on of my sister continued all the way into high school. For some reason I’m still not completely clear on, the little sister of the girl who picked on my sister started picking on me. Sisters talk, so somehow a sort of Hatfields v. McCoys thing started up. IIRC, my sister and I did nothing to these other two girls that was aggressive or mean and we fit in just fine… except we weren’t from rich families like most of the other kids at that school, but not everyone was and we had plenty of friends and got along with most people just fine. Neither of us had a problem at school; it was only just these two sisters on the bus. Maybe our house looked shabby, so we appeared poor, which is of course, a perfectly justifiable reason to pick on anyone. (I’m kidding!)

Where I blame my mother is in how it was handled. My mother is one of the most passive people I’ve ever met. She does not do confrontation, she does not do standing up for herself, and she does not do making major decisions by herself. It’s actually no wonder to me how she was unable to handle being a single mom and we ended up living with my dad.

Anyway, I have no idea why this girl taunted me, threw things, and once even clawed me, every day on the bus. But I do know that when I told my mother about it, her sage advice was “Ignore her and she’ll stop.” My sister and I both tried that and it didn’t work. “Just ignore it. She’s just jealous of you.” That didn’t even make sense, the other girls were richer, prettier, and better dressed. (Looking back, we were wrong. We were both prettier than those two little bitches.) The best answer should have been “Stand up to her even if that means getting in a fight. I’ll drive you to school for a couple weeks if it means you get kicked off the bus for fighting.” She should have asked her BF to teach us how to throw a punch and hold up our guard and then let us have at it. We’d have all learned about how our choices have consequences.

Instead, my bully is still a rich, gorgeous, spoiled, petty, spiteful bitch.

However, I learned to stand up for myself. As I mentioned, we ended up living with my dad. My stepmonster refused to buy us new clothes at the beginning of the school year. I demonstrated that I’d outgrown my clothes, or that they were worn out, and ask to go shopping and she’d direct me to the attic and told me to wear her daughters’ stuff. Her youngest was ten years older than I and in that ten-year span, jeans had gone from hip-hugging bell bottoms to high-waisted tapered legs. So there I was in 7th grade, wearing some hippy dippy, flowing, flower child shirt with low-rise bell bottoms… guess what? Some of the girls wearing Jordache had to pick on me. Eventually, I got tired of it, knew that going to parents or teachers was pointless, so I chased her down the hall with intent to do serious bodily harm. Okay, I was going to kill her. With my bare hands. :smiley: Imagine my shock when my bully ran away from me. She never bothered me again. My BFF took pity on me, claimed her favorite pair of Jordache didn’t fit anymore and got her mother to let her give them to me. (She got a new pair. I was still in hand-me-downs, but at least I wasn’t so horribly different anymore. Thank you, Bestie!) There was another incident in high school, but that was more a boy-with-a-crush-pulling-on-pigtails variety and I threw him off the stage in the auditorium into the orchestra pit and he, too, left me alone. By high school, however, I had a hard time walking the line between assertive and aggressive and crossed over a bit, so I may have had some of that coming.

Had my mother been taught to stand up for herself, or how to assert herself in anyway, she might have taught my sister and I that we deserved to be treated with respect like anyone else–and, more importantly, how to handle it when we weren’t. But when we went to her with these problems, she didn’t step in and help us. Her advice got us nowhere. This reinforced the message that A) We don’t deserve help, B) Nobody will give it even if you ask and C) You shouldn’t stand up for yourself. Just be nice and people will be nice back. Just ignore anything that makes you uncomfortable and that thing will eventually go away. :rolleyes:

So no being asked why doesn’t bother me, because I don’t really know what was the thing that set us apart as different that caused the bullying. I had a revelation while reading this thread, that bullies will pick on everyone and the only thing that makes you a repeat customer is your response, if you shut down, withdraw, cry, or otherwise don’t fight back, that makes you a target. Therefore, it’s my mother’s fault. She failed to teach my sister and I that we had a right to protect ourselves, to assert ourselves, and that we have a right to be treated with respect.

It could be a genuine, interested question or a snide, presumptive one depending on how and why it was asked.

But the question is really, “why YOU,” not “why bullying.” That’s how you should take it. Grant that whoever is asking understands that bullies were the problem, they were part of a bigger cultural malaise, and that you were unhappily cast as a victim. Emphasize that in your answer, if you so choose–it’s a teachable moment.

For the purposes of the interview, “Can you tell us your story?” would have done the trick.