Aye. We don’t get hysterical about intelligent use of alcohol because hundreds of idiots manage to drink themselves to death every year. MDMA ought not to be any different – especially as its effects aren’t as likely as alcohol to be a contributing factor in accidents and deaths due to misadventure.
You mean the coke they confiscated from patrons entering the party?
It was easier for me to get pot and crystal meth than alcohol when I was 17. We had to find a third party adult who had the time and willingness to acquire the alcohol, or we had to steal it from our parents and risk getting caught. On the other hand, with the drugs, we could go straight to the source, other 17 year olds. Also drugs are cheaper than alcohol.
Erek
Oh please, don’t tell me you’ve never heard of “media bias”, in the case of Salt Lake City, it’s all the rich socialite mormons that control the papers, whether or not an owner is an elected official is immaterial because they help make the elected officials. You do the math.
Next time I do some blow in the bathroom of a bar, I’m going to dedicate it to you. With any luck it’ll be off the shaven pussy of an expensive hooker.
That don’t make it legal. A rent-a-cop might take someone’s stash because they can, and who knows, maybe they really were of a “Drugs are bad, Mkay” mentality and were gonna flush 'em at the earliest opportunity –
But under the law, possession is possession. They were in possession.
Anyway, I’m inclined to think that, with each “confiscation,” a little voice inside said “Score!”
The Hell’s Angels “confiscated” quite a bit of contraband at Altamont. That didn’t suddenly make it legal for them to have it.
Stupidly, the UK is in the process of liberalising its alcohol licensing laws at the same time as it becomes more stupid with regard to “naughty” drugs. We’ve just banned unprepared magic mushrooms, a signal achievement in the fight against people who are uncommonly interested by trees, or see too many lobsters in the clouds. All because of the sneaking suspicion that somewhere, someone is having too much fun.
And why yes, I did have a nice afternoon the day before the ban came in to effect. 
Yeah, paying the police their protection money is always a good idea if the budget allows, I generally lose money, but in the case where I felt I was gonna make enough money I’d call cops that I know personally cuz that’s how I roll, better to give it to my friends than some random cocksucker. Oh yeah, the PBA card in your wallet doesn’t hurt either.
As for worker’s rights issues, most people employed at a rave are considered a “work for hire”, and people making money just pay income tax on the money they made if they make that choice individually. You don’t need to fill out a 1099 unless you pay someone more than $ 600.00.
Erek
Oh, because the police have a history of hate-ons for these people that means they were probably too dumb to learn how to do it properly, and the police can’t possibly be LYING long enough for the consumer attention span to forget about it now could they?
Why didn’t I think of that, no true fascist state would ever make laws to justify the use of unwarranted violence. That’s unpossible.
That assumes they are a criminal, and as for the rest, I guess that explains the battle armor and assault rifles.
Thank you, come again
Erek
I suppose you’d expect 1500 people to all just quietly nod and go home when approached by a couple cops flashing their badges and telling everyone to head out, then?
Where the fuck did you get 1500 people from?
All the other stories I read simply say “more than 250 people”, which is, of course, the magic number that the police needed to reach in order to declare the event illegal.
This is information about the lie that the promoters did not have the proper permits:
Pussy!
<b>Cowgirl:</b> Everyone I know that died of a drug overdose did it from some Opiate, one of them did it on Fentanyl patches, which are prescription drugs anyway, he died because he was really manic depressive, had a busted knee that hurt a lot, and had been off of morphine, which he had been an addict of for a long time before going cold turkey for a month, so he insisted to me that his tolerance could take it, it was clearly suicide, I spoke to him while he had the patches on, they were a ridiculously high dosage for people in astonishing amounts of pain. The other girl I saw out of her mind on Ketamine every time I ever saw her, which was like two or three times, she died of a heroin overdose.
Acid: I know people who are afraid to ever touch it again, I know some people who are kind of in la la land with it, and for some it’s exacerbated their depression, but I also know a lot of people that are more well adjusted and happy because of it. Most people that do acid are highly spiritual as well. Helps one gain insight that they had trouble getting to. Set and setting of course is important. I met a guy who said he was healed by taking 400 hits of acid, I have no way to verify this one way or another, but I have heard many similar stories of varying degrees, and feel myself that it’s had an overall positive effect. I sometimes take it when I am feeling stuck in life and need to release some pent up anxiety, it works really well. No real hangover except sometimes feeling wired when you’d rather sleep.
Crystal Meth: Makes people angry and frantic, they don’t sleep for days, high likelihood of heart attack, EXTREMELY addictive, brings people down faster than any other drug I’ve ever seen. Turns people Maniacal basically.
Cocaine: Makes some people assholes. Can be addictive, but I’ve always felt that it’s addictiveness was a bit overpublicized. I’ve done it many times, and yeah at the time your doing it you want more and more because of the crash, but usually it’s just better to go to sleep and forget about it. Lot’s of people do it and are fine, one friend of mine who is a massive drug user had a heart attack on it. Caffeine which replaced cocaine in Coca-Cola would be lethal in the miligram dosage that Cocaine has and is in my opinion more addictive than cocaine. I have had trouble not drinking Coca-Cola, but never really craved Cocaine ever. It’s impossible to say about addictiveness though, because caffeine is more socially acceptable.
Ecstasy: It’s a Meth Amphetamine, not as bad as Crystal Meth, less addictive, and less harsh than crystal meth. A lot less “dark” than meth. People get Manic as opposed to Maniacal on it. The crash sucks, just like all uppers.
GHB: You don’t want to do it and drink or you may die, but it’s got an effect sort of like Ecstacy, not too many people get hurt badly on it. I got sick when I did it, but I drank a little prior to taking it.
Ketamine: A small percentage of users become addicts, most addicts are also dealers in this case. It’s a tranquilizer that gives you a certain detachment from everything, if you take too much you go into a K-Hole. It’s somewhat psychedelic. Only addicts really ever get hurt by this drug, and they are a small percentage of the users overall.
Mescaline: I’ve never done it myself, I have done a synthesized Analog called 2CI. They are both psychedelics, and both have had healing affects along with most psychedelics. Is often considered a sacrament by people who take it.
PCP: If someone is doing PCP, stay away from them, they are dangerous, psychotic and detached from their body in such a way as to be easy to hurt. This one should probably stay illegal in all honesty. The only reason I don’t kick dustheads from parties is because I don’t want to make a previously peaceful but shady character to become a violent shady character. So what we do is we alert our friends who will get our back, and “watch the dusthead”. That is usually enough to get them to chill, at a bigger party that sort of thing is harder to manage.
The thing about addicts that seperates them from users, is that addicts have a certain predilection that draws them to their drug of choice, before aquiring the drug they want to go to a place that the drug and fantasize about it before ever aquiring the drug.
Some things to remember about drug culture being dangerous. 1) Some people are sociopaths, they go anywhere to prey, raves do not have legal protection, because of a loophole that makes them illegal, so children are afraid to alert authorities, and will either get hurt, or people within the scene will take it upon themselves to lay down some frontier justice. 2) Most drug related violence is between dealers and dealers or dealers and addicts, and generally is over money, money which they have no legal recourse with because their wares are illegal. They are often over turf, which would be shared if it were legal. People will get killed for talking to the cops. In my neighborhood there is all kinds of stuff warning people not to be a narc, stickers on poles, T-shirts and such. I live right across from the projects. Drug dealers control projects as turf.
The drug war creates a confrontational relationship between kids and cops. I grew up fearing cops, from the lies they told us in DARE to being strip searched unprovoked in public in a New Jersey suburb. They found nothing. Overall it was kind of fun because I got to be a snotty prick to a bunch of cops with all my friends watching. I’m always aware of cops in my vicinity, we try to spot the undercovers and let each other know who they are. You’d be amazed at how truly incapable a lot of undercovers are.
I know drug dealers who are really nice to people, who know their shit, make sure that they always give the quality, and have scales and chemical testers to ensure that they are only selling quality product. They keep their books and would pay taxes if they weren’t afraid of getting arrested for it. Upper Middle Class parties rarely get shut down, and drugs are omnipresent. There are experimental chemicals that most people have never heard of that hit the street and are quasi-legal for a while, as “research chemicals”, until they are scheduled a few years later, and the average public doesn’t hear of them for at least another decade or so afterward.
A lot of people, myself included take drugs as a sacrament. The only drugs I do purely recreationally are pot and alcohol. The other drugs are sacramental in my opinion, and yes I do them at dance parties, but that’s part of the whole experience. Dancing all night is the best excercise one can have, so many drug users are in better physical shape than the average American. Ravers very often have really tight abs.
Rave culture is also about a sense of community, I have many friends who will take me in if I am homeless, I have friends who will lend me a $ 10,000 sound system because I have proven I’m not a dumbass. I could pull a sound system from 1 of 5 sources any given weekend. We can setup and strip down a sound system in minutes if the cops show up to bust us, and people HAVE outrun cops carrying big speakers and gotten away. I have friends who will watch my back if someone jumps me. I have political connections due to people I know from partying. Most of my business, parties and otherwise is done with people I know from these scenes. We are hackers, programmers, marketing people, theatrical artists, audio engineers, musicians. I know a guy who uses his rave sound system to earn a living doing weddings. If that is taken from him, he loses part of his livelihood. The way around that is to sign a rental agreement with the promoter, then the owner can go get it out of impound very easily. These can be signed after the event and dated before the event. Anyone can be the “Owner” in a pinch. It is supplemental income to a lot of people. I know people who were making ridiculous amounts of money in this culture before Giuliani started punishing us for existing. Now it’s hard to earn a living for fear that the police will shut you down. I don’t have the statistics for it but business in bars and restaurants has declined because the nightclub tourism industry doesn’t come from Europe to New York anymore, but we have fat suburban housewives eating at the Hard Rock Cafe, watching Rent and leaving with something from the Disney Store, yay!
There is a much deeper underlying reality to this whole situation than most people care to even examine, yet they will tacitly support the oppression of one type of gathering and the general consensus, is that people should have paid the police protection money.
Erek
Oh yeah, that’s proof. You showed me. :rolleyes:
Hey, it’s a permit #. I’m trying to verify the #, but it seems that permits aren’t posted online by Utah county immediately.
At least admit that it brings a smidge of doubt about the police story, eh.
Besides, jackass, I didn’t say it was proof, I said it was information.
On the upside, these guys are world famous now, and will have a career throwing raves for the rest of their lives. God Bless America.
My friend was at a rave in the Czech Republic, a festival as it were, of a kind called a Teknival, which is where people who have sound systems just show up, and that’s the party. So when it was shut down by the Czech officials, they took it to the capital of Prague and protested by throwing a rave there for a couple days. The real problem is Americans are pussies.
Erek
What are the cops going to blow them all away?
Guess you’re pretty much fucked, then. Not a thing in the world more steeped in the culture of fascism than rich socialite mormons.
That’s one way to look at it. I’ve never been to a rave so perhaps my information is bad. So far as I know people go to raves to listen to music, dance, do drugs, drink, and wave glow sticks around. Somehow I think they keep these things secret for reasons other then making it special. Just my hypothesis though.
Marc
Whence the need for name-calling, hmm?
In any case, you claim the police lied about the status of any putative permits the rave organizers may or may not have held, and offered that “information” as a cite to refute this. A reasonable person might conclude that you believed the information you presented was proof that the organizers DID have permits. Besides, I was using the term “proof” sarcastically. Clearly, it was proof of nothing.