Pet Problem. What can I do?

As many know, I have five dogs, all rescues of one sort or another. A while back I picked up two dogs on the highway in Kentucky while traveling from Tennessee to Michigan. On of these dogs, a fuzzy black dog, is an escape artist and a cat killer. A few weeks ago he got loose and in the morning there was a dead cat in the neighborhood. There was no eyewitness as to whether the cat was killed by my dog or by a stray that was in the neighborhood (a german shepherd mix) or by a car for that matter. One neighbor threatened lawsuit (although I don’t know what she could sue for exactly, it wasn’t her cat). In the intervening time I’ve done all I could to keep the dog confined, putting a wire cap on his 7’ high kennel (he scales chain link like a kid goes up the ladder to a slide) and chaining him inside so he couldn’t get out. I spent last night away from my house and when I got back this morning, we was loose. Understandably, my neighbors get upset when he’s running, especially if he’s had dogs barking all night. I understand that it is my responsibility to keep my dogs contained. I’ve done that to the best of my ability. But he’s a young healthy dog who’s wonderful with people and other dogs. I don’t want to have him put down because I can’t contain him.

What would the pet-lovers of the SDMB do?

Could you find a shelter that does not euthanize their animals? We have one that I know of in Houston. I can understand the temptation to make a home for those strays that are in need but don’t overestimate your ability to provide quality care. I have three dogs that I adore. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have 4 or 5.
Have you contacted an animal rescue league? They can sometimes locate foster caretakers until an adoptive caretaker can be found.
Good luck.

I got Mr. Trick in our non-kill facility for one day. Then they called and said he was too much trouble and if I didn’t pick him up by the end of the day he would be euthanized! So much for a non-kill facility. My years of donations stopped abruptly. I have tried a couple of foster-placement agencies, but none of them had room. I will try again and beg and plead, I guess.

For the record, I have 5 dogs, 2 cats and a horse. Two of the dogs (the fuzzy dog and a bordcer-collie mix I picked up on the highway) are outside dogs. The german shepherd, doberman and airedale are inside dogs. I honestly had no intention of keeping the two outside dogs, but have been unable to place them.

StG

Mr. Trick is such a cute name. I wish I had an answer for you. I just hate that people are so irresponsible / cruel / and stupid with the dogs they think they want. This causes people like us to end up with more than our share.
I intended to adopt one of my dogs. The other two adopted me. One I picked up out of a Kroger parking lot. She was about 3 months old and it was about 102 degrees and well… that is that story. The other followed us home from a walk. So, believe me, I understand how you feel. If I won the lotto I would build a first class animal shelter. I have had some very bad experiences with various shelters so I understand that as well. I have had good experiences with Citizens for Animal Protection. They euthanize though. I think they keep them for two or three weeks. I have countless sad stories on this issue. It seems that there are no acceptable solutions. Because of that I end up taking dogs in to CAPS because I know I can’t provide them with a home and I know that if they stay on the street, they will end up as 1)roadkill… I live in Houston 2) they will end up in the hands of some sick person that wants to abuse 3) reproducing. The shelter is the closest to acceptable…BUT STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Did Mr. Trick turn up yet? Call me paranoid, but I really worry about pissing off my neighbors because I fear they may do something really mean to my dogs when I am not home. I have a doggy door so they are outside when they want. Is there someone who could help you build a crate that could be in the shade and secure enough to prevent escape. Does Mr. Trick get out when you are home? Because if he stays put when you are there maybe he could enjoy being out in the yard while you are home but crate him when you are gone.
Again…good luck.

I wonder how the hell he gets out of his pen, considering it has a wire roof, etc. An alternative would be to keep him in the house, but I’d guess he’s the type who would chew it up. It certainly sounds like you’re trying very hard to contain him, but it’s just not effective. If you truly cannot find a shelter, then I think you must put him down. It is not fair to the other animals in the neighborhood or to your neighbors. (I have a dog and 2 cats.)

jacksen9 - I haven’t thought about crating him. If he gets out while I’m home, he just comes to me wagging his tail. He is home now - as soon as I got home he came running to me. It seems sort of unfair to keep him in a crate 10 hours a day.

ratatoskK - He slipped the collar, I know that. the kennel gate wasn’t open, he didn’t dig out (there’s a wire floor on the keenel, too. He must’ve gone over the wall and wiggled out a corner or something.

StG

My vet encouraged me to crate my puppy. This was after she ate a sofa, a window ledge, phone cord, sheet rock. I was always very rushed to get home to let her out to take care of her business. I was fortunate in that I could limit her time in the crate to about 8 1/2 hours. Not great but better than her getting her intestinal system damaged. If you are a carpenter maybe you could build a crate with enough space so Mr. Trick could have some sort of run for taking care of business, yet enclosed to prevent escape. My vet explained that dogs are naturally den animals. If you do a good job of giving exercise and attention when you are home, crating could be the only acceptable solution.

Well StGermain I have a couple points to make. First of all I can understand that you are a very big animal lover. Thats fine and dandy, but since when are german shepherds and dobermans inside dogs? How long have you had those two inside? My wife has been a VET tech for over 15 years and has told me keeping dogs over 50lbs in the house all the time can be detrimental. Unless you are an IRONMAN runner with them or you have a 100K sq foot house for them to run around in, I’d say keeping dogs that large as indoor dogs could be doing more harm than good.

That said why do you not train them? Spending time each day training all of your dogs would be the most beneficial thing for you to do with your dogs. Especially the on who likes to run away and climb the fences. It would save you heartache and money should they do anything rash when they are loose.

Coda - My dogs have been indoors for about 8 years. My dogs are inside dogs because they’d rather be with me than outside. They are offered trips outside (in fact, while I’m at work, the airedale stays in the yards while I’m at work) but they prefer to be at my side and come directly back to the door after being let out. As for the “large dogs are outside only”, what about the fact that german shepherds, golden retreivers, boxers and other large breeds are often used as guide dogs and service dogs and spend all day indoors. My dogs are a healthy weight and my vet has no problem with their physical condition. I would imagine that Mr. Trick might do well in agility, but that would hardly affect his down-time activities.

StG

My dogs prefer to be indoors. They have a doggy door so they can be in or out as they choose. Tera is 14 years old. Her health is beginning to fail but I believe this has more to do with age than environment. I think that keeping a dog outside in Houston would take years off their life. The heat is impossible.

Can you build a totally enclosed run for Mr. Trick? Maybe your vet would have somebody you can contact for advice on how to make it more secure.

Squish - I thought that’s what I’d done. Chained inside a 13X 13’chain link pen, 7’ high, wire mesh on the floor and top.

StG

I have 3 big dogs indoors, they are part of the family, and as part of the family they stay inside. We have a large yard fenced with 8’ privacy fence - I know this is not an option for everyone, and I don’t think it’d work with a confirmed escape artist. But I just want to make a point that not all big dogs should be only outdoors.

I don’t think StGermain would want to keep a cat killing dog indoors since she has cats. Crate training might work, but 10 hours is too long for a dog to stay in a crate. Is there anyway someone could come over and let him out during that time? Or else, maybe build a new, totally secure holding palce? I don’t know what to tell you, but I am so happy none of my mutts can escape.

I have 3 big dogs indoors, they are part of the family, and as part of the family they stay inside. We have a large yard fenced with 8’ privacy fence - I know this is not an option for everyone, and I don’t think it’d work with a confirmed escape artist. But I just want to make a point that not all big dogs should be only outdoors.

I don’t think StGermain would want to keep a cat killing dog indoors since she has cats. Crate training might work, but 10 hours is too long for a dog to stay in a crate. Is there anyway someone could come over and let him out during that time? Or else, maybe build a new, totally secure holding kennel? I don’t know what to tell you, but I am so happy none of my mutts can escape.

Wait a second - where do you keep your dogs if not in the house? I have had large dogs all my life, and I would NEVER EVER keep a dog outdoors. And I have never heard anything about keeping dogs in the house being detrimental to them - in fact I have very much heard the opposite.

I have been training dogs professionally for 4 years now, and I can tell you without hesitation that keeping any dog outside is a big mistake. Dogs are pack animals that must have the security of a close-proximty relationship to be healthy and happy. Keeping a dog outside is cruel and counterproductive- cruel because you are depriving the dog of company which he needs in order to be phsychologically healthy, and counterproductive because you cannot train him effectively. If he’s outside all the time, you can’t watch him. You can’t correct his mistakes, or praise him when he does the right thing. You can’t expect him to guard you or your house- he doesn’t live there! He lives out in the yard, being bored and frustrated all day. And a bored, frustrated dog of any size is a potential danger to life and property. I see more aggressive dogs that are aggressive solely because somebody chains them up all day and gives them nothing to do. Being able to run around in a big yard isn’t enough, either- they need interaction with you. They need to feel that they are a part of your ‘pack’, they need to feel that someone is in charge, in just the same way that a human being does. Wouldn’t you be bored and frustrated if you were stuck outside all day everday with no one to talk to, and nothing to do but wander around your backyard?

To the OP: St. Germain, this is a really crappy situation. I respect your love for animals- I feel the same way. So why not train your furry little hellion? A crate is a great idea, a wonderful idea- but you’re right, 10 hours a day is way too long. Look into a pet-sitting service, or maybe you have friends or family who’d be willing to stop over mid-day to take the dog out for a potty break and a walk, or a game of catch in the yard? You really ought to look into training this dog- without training, he’s just going to continue to be a nuisance, and your neighbors can bring legal repercussions against you for his actions. I don’t want to alarm you, but if local animal control services are called out, all your animals may be confiscated, depending on the complaints levelled and the severity of the charges. Look into getting a professional trainer; they can really help you. Just make sure you agree with their practices, and never hesitate to ask questions or stop the training if you don’t like what the trainer is doing. I don’t know where you live, but I’m sure there are a number of organizations near you (they’re all over; just look around) that would help with training. Try local dog clubs or even call nat’l organizations like the AKC- they have huge listings of pro trainers all over the country. With effort and dedication, you can make this dog a great addition to your, or anybody’s family. If you really can’t keep him, and want to place him in a loving, forever home, training will increase his chances ten-fold of not ending up on doggy death-row. I wish you the best of luck with this situation, and I’ll be keeping you and Mr. Trick in my thoughts. Hang in there, and if you ever want to talk, please e-mail me. Here’s an MB you can also go to- it’s run by professional, world-renowned trainers, and they dispense free advice: www.greatpets.com Keep us posted. Hugs for you and fuzz-faces.

This may have already occurred to you (sorry if I’m being redundant) but have you considered chaining him to a harness instead of a collar? They are much harder to get out of.

boscibo - I could possibly crate train and come home at lunch to let him out for a bit. I have a crate big enough for my german shepherd (picked it up at a yard sale and never used it) that would give him lots of room. But would that train him or simply contain him?

ratty It was Mr. trick and his friend Faith (the border collie mix) who decided not to be inside dogs. You’re right - it would’ve been easier to train him if he was inside. I don’t think these dogs had ever been inside a house or building of any kind when I picked them up for the highway. The one time we had a cold snap (I live in Tennessee - the weather isn’t very severe here) and I tried to at least bring them into my utility room to stay warm, they went crazy. Planting all four feet and backing away from the lead. So far Animal Control hasn’t caught the dogs. I’ve had them well up before they came out. I’ll look into your suggestions, thank you for your help. Want another dog? I deliver.

CMC - I thought it was dangerous to tether a dog on a harness. Although I guess it shouldn’t be any more dangerous than a collar, a potential strangulation device.

StG

St. G- I am not a dog owner, but have two cats, which is why I’m more harness oriented. I couldn’t find any info on the web that said harness tethers were dangerous for dogs. I did find a couple that said collar tethers were though.

Re: harnesses – there is a harness called “Gentle Leader” that I HIGHLY recommend for large dogs. The harness slips over the nose, almost like a muzzle, and then wraps behind the dog’s head. It is NOT a muzzle - the dog can open his mouth, eat, pant, catch a ball, even bite with the harness on. I’m not too good at describing the configuration, but the part that goes over the muzzle has a loop at the bottom for attaching a leash. The part that goes around the back of the head is attached, but separate, if that makes sense. It works this way - first of all, you are never pulling at the dog’s throat, so you never feel as though you are choking the poor dog (and the dog doesn’t feel choked, either.) With the leash attached to the loop, when you pull on the leash, the harness turns the dog’s head toward you and applies (gentle) pressure to the back of the head, working with the dog’s natural inclination to pull AWAY from something applying pressure. The end result is something rather like a horse’s bridle - the dog will tend to follow his head, and since his head is turning toward you, the dog learns not to pull away from you. Again, this is not a muzzle, and there is no “bit” like there is for a horse. The Gentle Leader is designed to train dogs not to pull during walks, but we’ve found it tremendously helpful for all around general leash training. I am going to see if I can dig up a link for you. I do know you can get one at Petco.

Also, a friend of mine recommended a harness type thig called a “Halt-ee” that sounds very similar to the Gentle Leader, but I have not seen this myself. May be worth looking into, though.