I disagree somewhat. Of course, anybody is welcome to show up at a public place. And, of course you’ll want to greet your friends and chat with them briefly. But it is not always okay for folks to join another party who are clearly and already there together.
This can go down one of two ways:
“Hey, good to see you guys!”
“You, too! How have you been?”
“Great, and you?”
“Good, I’ll have to give you a call sometime soon. Enjoy your evening!”
“Thanks, you too!”
OR:
“Hey, good to see you guys!”
“You, too! How have you been?”
“Great, and you?”
“Good. Why don’t you pull up a chair?”
“Thanks!”
Either option can be acceptable, depending on the parties involved. NightRabbit knows that Dana prefers one-on-one time with her friends, so it would be more considerate for her to steer the conversation in the first direction.
Some people are just shy or phobic about interacting with others they don’t know or don’t know well, so you should take that into consideration. I’m like that to a degree, so people I have plans with know this and will tell me up front who is going with, or if they want to invite another person along, so I can back out if I want. But meeting someone by chance at a place and inviting them to sit down, of course that’s always understandable and an exception.
Is she only this way about plans she made? Or plans someone else made? Or plans that were congealed more than made?
In the case of plans she’s made – where she did the inviting, made the reservations, etc – even if she’s not paying the bill, I think it would be fair to respect her preferences.
If they’re plans someone else made – whether you or anyone not Dana – then I don’t think you need to respect her preferences in specific, but you should be aware of the organizers preferences.
If they’re the kind of plans that just sort of congealed in a ‘Hey, a bunch of us are meeting at the bar on Friday for drinks and then going to a movie.’ way, then I think new people who are already part of the core social group should be assumed to be welcome to be congealed into the plans, as well.
But this is the risk you take when holding a get-together in a public place, like a bar. Just because you don’t invite someone to join you, specifically–by asking them to pull up a chair or whatever–doesn’t mean that they aren’t going to linger around people they know. Regardless if those people are there because someone else invited them out.
I just think that if this is that big a deal, the gathering should be held on private property.
I have a girlfriend who is an extreme extrovert. You don’t invite Brenda anywhere. You invite Brenda, you get Brenda, Brenda’s neighbor, Brenda’s coworker the clerk from seven eleven she just met two minutes ago. There is no such thing as a quiet lunch where you talk to Brenda.
Sometimes, I’d like a quiet lunch with Brenda. I don’t want to share her with her hairdressers best friends sister who really wanted to try this restaurant. Even if she is bringing along someone I know well, if the idea was to spend time with Brenda, I feel cheated.
I have acquaintences who are introverts (few of my girlfriends are - when you have several Brendas in a group, you can’t afford to be). They really prefer small groups. One on one conversations, and intimacy. In at least one case this is part of a hearing issue - and she’ll come right out and say “I can’t follow a conversation that involves more than two people.” But often it just a difference in how they relate - they don’t relate in groups, they relate one on one.
You know your friends preference, it is rude of you to invite anyone else along. If you run into someone over lunch with Dana, you say “Great to see you, lets make some time to get together next week.” If you mention you are going to a movie with Dana and someone says they want to see that movie, you don’t extend the invite. If they invite themselves, you “don’t know what theatre or showing you are going to yet…”
Unfortunately yeah, I think you were being a bit rude; ultimately for me it comes down to consideration for others and awareness that there are differences between people and your way of socializing is not the only viable way. Lots of possibilities were mentioned already; perhaps she has social anxiety and feels like she gets lost in too much of a group setting. Perhaps she doesn’t actually like the people you invite along, but just pretends she does for the sake of not seeming like a bitch. Or perhaps she just doesn’t like surprises. I personally like smaller groups, but wouldn’t be outraged if someone randomly showed up at my bar gathering (unless I hated them). I would be annoyed if someone invited someone else to my gathering without asking me, though. Whatever the deal, I’m not her, and neither is anyone else here (probably ).
I’d also curb explaining to other people why you think she doesn’t want them along until you know for sure. It might be specific and you might be making her look bad for the wrong reasons (which if I were her would actually piss me off more than the initial issue).
If I make plans with one person, or a small group of people, I really prefer not to have additional joinees. Sometimes it’s because I really want to spend time and catch up with those particular people. You can’t do so in the same way with a big group. Other times, I just don’t want to be “on” the way you have to be with a group that involves more than just a few, close friends.
Then there’s the whole logistics hassle with a large group: the entire group never shows up at the same time, you’ve got to wait for a larger table, someone always has to go to the ATM, someone’s already seen the movie you’re planning on so you have to chose another… There are times I’m really not up for all that.
Bear in mind, I’m 41. When I was in my 20’s, I wasn’t like that at all. Back then, it was the more the merrier. But now, it seems like my energy is lower and time with close friends is more precious.
While I agree with what you and others are saying along these lines, I feel like interjecting to re-iterate what I said before.
Yes, it’s more considerate of you to take her feelings into account. But that also means that *she *should be taking *your *feelings into account. Her feelings are important, true, and to be a good friend you should try to make choices that she can feel good about. But your feelings are just as important. JUST AS important - not “also important” not “sort of” important, but exactly and equally important.
If the freedom to invite others along and the energy you get from spontaneity is important to you, then you need to demand that she honors that as well as you honoring her need for…whatever it is she needs, exactly. And if you can’t both get your needs met enough of the time (which only each of you can define, not us), then the friendship isn’t going to work - someone will end up resentful.
This isn’t a straight up etiquette question. You’re not bad or breaking standardized social rules by inviting a common acquaintance to pull up a chair in a public place. Neither is she bad or breaking standardized social rules by not liking that. This is a grey area of personal preference, and grey areas of personal preference can only be navigated with careful communication, honesty and compromise.
Sorry to harp on this, but I think a lot of young women sacrifice themselves on the altar of being “nice” to the ultimate detriment of their relationships and their own self esteem. I know I did (and still do, to some degree*). Yes, everyone else is just as important as you…but that also means you’re just as important as everyone else!
About the mutual friend thing. Sometimes a weird dynamic develops when a mutual friend shows up on the scene. You might be all prepared to talk about work drama or guy problems–the kinds of topics that work better one-on-one–but with Third Wheel there, you might have to switch to less personal, more fluffy stuff. Or maybe you’re closer to the mutual friend than the other friend is, and they don’t want to hear all the inside jokes and stories that don’t include them.
I do think this is a introvert/extrovert issue. It bugs me when I’m out with someone and we can’t go five minutes without their cell ringing or them wrapping their arms around a long-lost buddy. For me, the more isn’t merrier; it’s tiring and makes me feel invisible. I can stay home to be invisible.
For me, it’s not that I can’t relate in groups. It’s that I relate differently in groups versus with an individual. Sometimes I’m in the mood to serve as the clever, entertaining, laughy person that shows up in groups. And sometimes I’m more about being natural, relaxed, and vunerable, which is how I am when I’m with a single person.
If I’m not in the right mood, thrusting me in a group is not going to make me happy.
Thank you. A lot of the posts in this thread have a rather critical tone concerning the OP - but friendship is a mutual thing. You can’t make concessions for her ALL the time. If that’s her quirk, and she’s a good friend, then yeah, you need to work around that, but she needs to understand that you aren’t the same way - and work around that as well.
Also, I think for our age group, Dana is being somewhat . . . unreasonable. Hey, I’m not a fan of big groups either, and more often than not I’ll be hanging out with the same four-five people every weekend. But it’s inevitable that sometimes a mutual friend, who isn’t normally part of “the group,” will tag along - particularly since we’re fresh out of school and most of us still live in the area. Sometimes it happens to be someone I’m not a fan of. But whatever. It’s not something worth making a fuss over, and I see my close friends seperately often enough that having mutual acquaintances along occasionally isn’t that big a deal. And sometimes it’s even fun.
Sorry, WhyNot, I have to disagree a bit. I love sushi. Love it. Could eat it every day for lunch for the rest of my life. But if I have a friend that I know hates sushi, it would be rude of me to insist on going to a sushi restaurant with her. If my friend tried to prevent me from ever eating sushi, that would be weird and wrong. But if she prefers that we go somewhere else to eat when we’re together, that’s perfectly acceptable. Now if it’s my birthday and I celebrate it at a sushi restaurant, letting my friend know in advance that’s where we’re going to be, she’s free to decline. But if I insist on sushi when we go out just the two of us, I’m not being a great friend.
Same thing with NightRabbit and Dana. NightRabbit is free to hang out in big group’s to her heart’s content whenever else she goes out. But when she makes plans to spend time with Dana, she ought to respect Dana’s discomfort with impromptu joiners.
Why? Why shouldn’t Dana respect NightRabbit’s discomfort with turning away their mutual friends? She knows **NightRabbit **likes to invite others to join them. It makes **NightRabbit **happy. Dana is free to hang out solo or one on one on clearly planned and articulated nights. But when she makes casual plans to spend some time with NightRabbit, she ought to respect NightRabbit’s discomfort with turning away mutual friends.
Works both ways, s’all I’m sayin’. I don’t think either one should give in entirely, nor, if they’re honest friends, do they need to.
You’re all women, right? It’s pretty much a girl thing. Women jocky for position within their peer group through social bullying - the selective inclusion and exclusion of people. If “Dana” invites a certain group of people, it’s because she knows she’s the queen bee within that group. If you bring your friend, you threaten that balance of power. If your roomate makes plans and makes a point of letting you know they don’t include you, it is a clear signal that you aren’t in her circle.
Oops, I forgot to address this part. I don’t think your love of sushi is a good comparison in this case. It’s not just that **NightRabbit **likes to invite other people along, she actually feels *bad *if she can’t. She says in her OP that telling other people they can’t join them makes her feel uncomfortable, which isn’t odd at all.
Do you feel bad if you can’t eat sushi with your friend? Or are you ultimately just as happy eating Thai instead? If you’re just as happy, then yes, absolutely, your desire to eat sushi should be deferred in favor or his need to eat something he can tolerate. Desire < need. But the OP read to me like two needs, which are equal and opposing, and therefore require further discussion and negotiation.
Fair point. I enjoy both hanging out in groups and one-on-one. If NightRabbit doesn’t enjoy spending one-on-one time with someone when she could be with a group, then she and Dana will have to come to some sort of compromise.
Gotta call bullshit. This kind of nonsense ends in high school for most women. msmith357, you’re right on about a lot of things, but your comments about women lead me to suspect that the subculture of women you know are very different from most of the women I’ve met.
But meeting someone by chance at a place and inviting them to sit down, of course that’s always understandable and an exception.
I can’t believe you’re carrying last year’s hand bag!