Plans with friends and the etiquette of inviting others?

In My Humble Opinion
1

To start this out, I’m a pretty social creature. I like meeting and spending time with friends-of-friends, and I have a thoroughly “the more the merrier” attitude. If I make plans with people, and I happen to run into another friend of mine who seems interested, I see nothing wrong with inviting them along. All of my friends are from college, so everyone knows everyone else, and has met at least once or twice. It’s never someone completely new.

That being said, I have one friend of mine who is HIGHLY against the idea that anyone else not explicitly invited to a specific activity join in. If we were in a restaurant, and someone we knew ran into us, and I said, “pull up a chair and join us!”, she’d be very annoyed. Many times, because the circle is so small, I find myself talking to a lot of people about plans, I try to spend time with Dana, but it always becomes incredibly awkward when others want to join and I have to keep telling them, “Oh, er, I’d love to have you, but um, Dana doesn’t like other people along. It’s not personal!” I feel like I’m insulting/rejecting people by proxy.

And this isn’t once in a while when she’s having a bad day and wants it to be just us, it’s EVERY time. One time, I cluelessly brought a mutual friend to a birthday party of hers, naturally assuming “the more the merrier”, and she got VERY angry at me. And this was someone she hangs out with and knows! I was mystified at the reaction, and so was my incredibly embarassed guest (he had assumed he was welcome, also)! Of course I’ll never bring someone to an event of hers again without asking, I now see that it was crossing her line, but if we’re just hanging out at a diner and someone else wants to spend some time, I feel very uncomfortable telling them, “Dana is uncomfortable with other people being around, so you can’t stay” or, “I know you’ll be in the same place at the same time, but we can’t really spend any time together, because Dana is with me and she wouldn’t like it”.

I feel like it’s selfish on Dana’s end to insist that other people are never included in our plans. In our circle, young people, recent college graduates, this is definitely a minority attitude, a relatively insulting one, and one that I don’t understand. That being said, maybe I’m being very rude to her. I feel like, in this situation, I’m being forced to be rude to SOMEONE- either by excluding other people, or by ignoring her clear preference to never see anyone she doesn’t explicitly include in plans.

I’d like other opinions on this. Am I being rude? Is she being unreasonable? Is there a middle ground, or so I just have to resign myself to capitulating to her social reclusiveness whenever we see eachother?

2

It’s nice that you want to see that her needs are met, but don’t forget your needs are just as important. You need to come to some middle ground that works for the two of you. And to do that, you’re going to have to talk to her.

First, find out what’s actually wrong: Is she generally anxious around other people, or does she not do well when plans change? Is she secretly in love with you and built up a fantasy that your hanging out is a date?

Find out what she really needs: one night with you all to herself each month? Each week? Always? And decide if you can enjoy her company under those circumstances. Then tell her what level of flexibility you need: the right to invite anyone along, anytime? Call her the night before to add people to the party? Call her 10 minutes before? And then she has to decide if she can enjoy your company under those circumstances.

ETA: Also, try to articulate your problem to her in a gentle way. She might be thinking, “Oh, my gosh, I’m so boring that **NightRabbit **can’t stand to be alone with me! I’m such a loser!”

Maybe propose getting season tickets to a play or something - so she knows she gets a night with just you every so often. She might be afraid that if she relents once, she’ll never get you alone again.

3

Well, I understand the birthday party thing. That’s an event, you know? But as far as going out with a group and running into other people and joining up, well, you can’t let yourself be ruled entirely by her in that.

I like WhyNot’s season tickets idea.

4

I’m willing to bet it is a communication issue. My roommate and I have some communication issues ourselves, most of which we have managed to work through. There is one thing she used to do that just aggitated me to no end and I actually got angry and cried about it once. For a while she would go out with Friend A and Friend B and call it “girl’s night out” but I was expressly not invited. She would sit and make detailed plans with these two women, going on and on about “girl’s night” and it made me feel really excluded. I didn’t want to go out with them or tag along or anything, but the wording she chose really hurt and it took me a long time to figure out that the reason it bothered me was that it seemed like she was purposely throwing her plans in my face as though she were trying to make me feel excluded. Had she just said, “Hey, A and B and I are getting together on Friday to go to a poetry reading.” I would have wished her well, but to say, “Hey, Friday I am going to girl’s night!” translated in my head to, “And I don’t give a damn that you have ovaries too, because YOU CAN’T GO!”

Once I figured out why it bothered me I explained it to her and she stopped calling it that. I haven’t gotten upset about her extracurricular plans since. I am willing to bet that she sees your excitement at meeting someone while you are hanging out and inviting them to join you or bringing someone along to a party where you are going to spend time with her and it translates in her head to, “Damn, I am so glad someone else came along because Dana is boring the shit out of me!” Maybe there is some different way to approach things so that she wouldn’t see it that way?

5

I would be annoyed if you invited other people to my house, or even asked them to join us while we were out, particularly if I had made the arrangements.
If I had invited you to dinner I would have picked the restaurant, made the reservations, and intended to pick up the check (no, it’s not about the money).

On the other hand, I cannot fathom the people who ask if they can join you in plans with someone else. Do they really say, ‘Can I come, too?’ if you mention plans. (How do you get out of unwanted invitations if you can’t say, “Sorry, I have other plans”?).

Your style of socializing is typical of college students, but people tend toward more … structure, I guess, when they get out in the world.

Hasn’t it occurred to you that if your friend knows these people, she could invite them herself?

[And it is really rude to discuss plans in front of someone who has not been invited.]

6

Put me with Diana. In the case of her party she has arranged to spend that specific time with those specific people. Never mind the financial aspect.

If you’re at somewhere like a diner and you’re the host, the polite thing to do is to ask the rest of the assembly, thereby showing consideration for them. Otherwise you’re telling them that the new arrival is more important than they are. If you’re not the host, it’s not your party.

7

Is it having other people around that she doesn’t like, or having people around who she didn’t plan on? From your examples, it sounds more like the latter.

Personally, I’d be pissed if I invited someone for an event and they brought another person without asking first. Depending on the situation, I’d usually be fine with a call 10 minutes before to see if it’s ok. It’s more of a courtesy than a worry that there will be too many people, or that I don’t like the person.

As I’ve gotten a little older (I’m only a few years out of college), this has been more important to me, but I think it’s mostly part of how I was raised.

8

I’m never comfortable inviting others along to events that other people have planned, even something as casual as getting together for a movie. I don’t want to impose on the plans they’ve made and the guests they’ve selected, to the point that I don’t even like asking for permission before inviting other people along, because it’s a request that most people wouldn’t turn down out of politeness even if they didn’t want anyone else along.

I also wouldn’t be comfortable with being invited to an event by someone who wasn’t a host.

9

I think I need more information on what Dana is like when she is social with other people. Does she also like to make plans with Mary, and then only hang out with Mary? Or is this something she does only with you?

If it’s just you, I think there’s some potential for some weirdness and she probably has issues.

If it’s the way she approaches socializing in general, then that’s just the way she’s wired, and I don’t think it’s very out of the ordinary. The party thing has already been addressed.

Some people simply get more relaxation from their social time by being in a smaller group. A large number of people can be overwhelming, even if she likes all the people individually. For me, at work part of my job is leading conversations with large groups of people, and I’ve noticed I’m much happier getting together with smaller groups of friends in my free time.

With the hanging out, I wasn’t quite clear when you said …

how do the other people know you are at a diner? Have they come to the same diner coincidentally, and seen you there? It should be easy enough to chat for a few moments and then eventually they will be seated at their own table, I would think. (Then again where I live, it would be a big coincidence indeed to run into someone at most diners or restaurants so maybe I’m not picturing this scenario the right way. There are a few spots where it might be more likely, but in that case … if I was going out with Dana, I wouldn’t go to a place that was a big hang-out with our crowd.)

Overall, I think if Dana asks you to do something social and you agree, you are accepting her invitation to socialize the way she is presenting it (just the two of you or a small group).

Likewise, if you invite Dana to join you, it might help if you are upfront with what you are expecting, such as “On Friday, I was thinking it would be fun to go to the diner and hang out with whoever is around – would you like to join me?” Then she could accept or decline. I would be absolutely firm about not changing your plans if she whines about it. She’s perfectly free to decline and make plans with you at some later date.

10

Is it always “the more the merrier” with you? Or just sometimes? Did you really invite someone to someone else’s party?

There are times, places, and occasions when it doesn’t matter to me who is there, who they brought, who might show up, who might not - if someone wanders along, no big deal. But then there are times when I made plans with Chris, Robin, and Jaime because I wanted to hang out with Chris, Robin, and Jaime specifically. If one of them shows up and says “I told Pat to meet us there,” I’m going to annoyed. Nothing against Pat. I may really like Pat. But there’s possibly/probably a reason that Pat wasn’t invited in the first place. To me, at that moment, Pat is an intrusion. But now I can’t say anything and I can’t do anything about it without being rude.

Is that really what you say? If so, I can’t imagine that hanging out with Dana is going to be a problem for you very much longer, and the problem will resolve itself.

You sound like you’re an extrovert - which is great. From what I read, if you run into friends at a diner, the most natural thing is to pull up a chair and sit down with them and vice versa. I am (and maybe Dana is, too) much more introverted. If I see friends at a diner, I’ll wave. Maybe, I’ll walk up, say “hi,” and exchange a few quick pleasantries, and then I will go to my own table. I expect the same from other people. I don’t see it as being selfish. I see it as respecting their time, privacy, and space and my time, privacy, and space.

11

If I make plans to have dinner with a friend, it’s usually because I want to have dinner specifically with that friend. I’d be a little tweaked off if my friend invited another acquaintance to join us on the spur of the moment. Maybe I want to discuss a particular personal problem I’m having with that friend. Maybe I want to spend an evening giggling at stupid jokes only the two of us get. If someone asked in advance, “Hey, Jane is also free that night, mind if she joins us?” that would be one thing. But ask on the spur of the moment just seems a bit rude.

And if you invited someone else to a party at *my house * without asking me? Oh, hell, no. When I have parties, I not only invite specific people that I think would really click, I tend to make damn fine food that I know specific people will appreciate. If I invited all of my friends to every party, I’d be too busy hostessing and pulling kitchen duty to enjoy the party myself.

12

No no, this was not a house party that I brought the friend to, it was drinks at a bar, and not an open bar, either-- everyone was paying for their own drinks, and also buying one for the birthday girl, perhaps. That sort of venue, in my mind, is pretty open. I’ve had big parties where people bring others, and I always like having more people show up.

I guess… this whole situation is sort of at the intersection of “college-type” interaction and “adult-type” interaction. It’s still common among my group for people to discuss all their plans and invite others/themselves along, etc.-- it’s very collaborative. With Dana, she goes more by traditional rules of etiquette, where someone inviting themselves along is neither commonplace nor very well taken. I feel like I’m in the middle of two very different sets of expectations and etiquette, and it’s hard to properly navigate both.

13

Inviting someone over without telling the host is rude so I don’t blame her for getting cranky about that, but this:

is just stupid. That said, there are certain people I rarely see because of time/distance and when what I thought would be “dinner for two” turns into “a crowd of people” I get a little cranky. Maybe that’s what’s going on in her head?

If not and she just has a stick up her ass I’d probably look at her and say, “Dana?” Then it’s on her to figure out what to say, not you, and after her reply you can make quick plans to meet up with the rest of your gang at a later time.

14

I think there’s definitely a difference between laid-back college socializing and more defined “adult” socializing. A lot of it, at least for me, was proximity; when I was in college (and for a while afterwards) my friends and I all lived in the same general area, and we had a lot of free time. We saw each other every day or so and most social events were of the sort where everyone was invited.

As you age, generally your life separates a bit from your friends, whether by physical space or more responsibility (job/family/etc.) Socializing isn’t so free & easy - it has to be scheduled and planned. In these situations, I think it’s natural to be more miffed when extras show up.

Indeed, Mr. Athena and I have a few friends who always seem to change the plans. We’ll be invited to dinner, and be looking forward to seeing the friends since we don’t see them often, and then find out a day before that it’s not just us for dinner, it’s a dinner party with people we don’t know or know very vaguely. Then suddenly, the quiet night of socializing with the two friends we know has turned into a party, and the whole mood has changed. We might not have accepted the invitation had we known it was a party, or maybe we would have re-scheduled for another night. But the point is, we weren’t even given the opportunity; we didn’t know the plans had changed until it was far too late to politely decline.

15

NightRabbit, I think your friend is being really weird. (And the replies in this thread are also surprising.) My friends and I are all in our 20s and it’s nothing out of the ordinary for us to meet up and someone say, “Oh, I called X and asked them to join us, too.” It’s never been a problem for any of us.

There are specific times and events where other people would not necessarily be welcome (like sometimes the guys want to have a “guy thing” where they grunt or watch football, or one of my friends will want to chat about a personal problem that he doesn’t necessarily want to discuss with the other guys) but those instances are pretty obvious. (The birthday thing I can kind of understand, for example.) Otherwise I think your friend is being rather odd.

The OP reminded me of grad school - my best friend and I were absolutely inseperable and we loved hanging out with just the two of us, but if one of us, on occasion, wanted to invite someone else along we’d just ask, “Hey, is it okay if I invite X to join us?” and the other would either say “Sure” or “Would next time be okay?” and that was fine. At the same time my best friend had another close friend that was rather reclusive, so sometimes when I asked if I could join them she would say, “I don’t think C would like that today; I’ll call you later though” and that was fine as well. I guess some people might take stuff like that personally though.

16

I’m getting this vibe that your friend is the type that thinks only the “cool” kids can hand around her. I hope I’m wrong but that’s the feeling I get.
Personally, I’m like NightRabbit only except I’m unapologetic. If we’re in a public place and some friends want to join us; then please do so. And anybody who doesn’t like it can leave.

Of course if I were on a romantic date with somebody than that’s a different story.

17

I actually agree with you on the birthday party – if you are having it at a bar, pay-as-you-go, and it’s a big enough crowd that people will be chatting in groups anyhow, then there shouldn’t be a problem with bringing one friend along. And I would say this is true at any age, not just post-college.

But for events that are more about one-on-one chatting, I think it’s rude to just toss in a last minute buddy for no particular reason. You should at least call first and ask if they mind, if friend minds they can say something like “Oh, you go ahead and we can reschedule” and then you have your hint.

So not knowing all the details, I think she sounds somewhat unwelcoming but perhaps you have pushed her buttons a few too many times and the birthday thing was a last straw. Keep in mind that if you are only interested in a group activity on a particular night, then you can either not accept her invitations or ask her upfront “I wanted to see A,B&C that night, can we make it a group thing?”.

18

If you know in advance, I would think that asking if it’s okay would be the appropriate action–you’re not springing it on her and she has an opportunity to decide what she’d prefer. If someone asks if they can tag along and you’re not the one organising things, then “I’ll have to ask” is a perfectly appropriate response.

I agree with those who think that you’re both different type of people with refards to social activities. I’m also very introverted, and I get really uncomfortable around large groups of people, to the point that I feel like I shouldn’t even be present. If I were to invite A and B out, and A brought C, and then A, B and C started talking…even if I know C, I wouldn’t be pleased with the situation. In a small group, an extra person can change the dynamic a lot.

19

Thanks for the explanation about the party. I agree, in that case, it doesn’t seem like such a big deal to invite a mutual friend.

I think that’s an astute observation. You just have to decide if you enjoy time with Dana enough to play by more traditional etiquette when you’re with her. As your crowd of friends ages (I say as a doddering crone of 29 :slight_smile: ), Dana’s style will probably beome more common.

20

At a bar, you don’t have control over who will show up. Therefore, if you went there with Dana and friends, and OTHER friends showed up…Dana should have held her shin-dig somewhere more private if that bothers her.

If it’s a house party the rules change. Unless the host/hostess invited you, you don’t belong there. You don’t get to assume anything. It’s her house. Her party. Probably her booze. And even if it isn’t, so what. Her house, her rules. Even if she likes Person X, if she didn’t invite them, you don’t get to assume they will be welcome.

If the venue is public–like the neighborhood pub–you can’t get upset if somebody shows up whom you did not invite. Nor can you get upset if your friends are friends with that person or those people, and prove it by chatting with them/drinking with them, etc.

If the venue is private, it’s invitation only. Whether it’s stated or not. You don’t invite friends to somebody else’s party or somebody else’s house, even if they are friends and you know them both. If it’s their property it’s their party, and they get to invite whoever–and exclude whoever–they want.