Plans with friends and the etiquette of inviting others?

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=burundi]
Gotta call bullshit. This kind of nonsense ends in high school for most women. msmith357, you’re right on about a lot of things, but your comments about women lead me to suspect that the subculture of women you know are very different from most of the women I’ve met.
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To be fair, there are women that still live in this mindset. In grad school, for example, there was a very distinct group of girls that everyone knew as “the girls that are still in high school.” But in my experience, such women have been the exception and not the norm. Then again, I suppose like calls to like, so if you’re not one of these people you probably aren’t going to run into a lot of them to begin with.

42

[QUOTE=burundi]
You’re right. I only let the cool kids of the SDMB hang around me. :wink: I can’t believe you’re carrying last year’s hand bag!
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Don’t mind her, **monstro **- she just *has *to be the only lowercase username in a thread! :wink:

43

Do you hate being alone with her? Could you make plans that you spend one evening a month or something alone with her, just the two of you? Sometimes other people’s quirks are just the price you pay for hanging out with people.

But I don’t know why you have to bring Dana into your excuse if you’ve made plans with her. Why say, “Dana’s a party-pooper and hates sharing me with other people or I’d invite you to go?” Why not just say, “Hey, I already have plans, but let’s catch up tomorrow?”

44

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
That being said, I have one friend of mine who is HIGHLY against the idea that anyone else not explicitly invited to a specific activity join in. If we were in a restaurant, and someone we knew ran into us, and I said, “pull up a chair and join us!”, she’d be very annoyed. Many times, because the circle is so small, I find myself talking to a lot of people about plans, I try to spend time with Dana, but it always becomes incredibly awkward when others want to join and I have to keep telling them, “Oh, er, I’d love to have you, but um, Dana doesn’t like other people along. It’s not personal!” I feel like I’m insulting/rejecting people by proxy.
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Can I ask - do your other friends that show up after you’re out with Dana actually ask if they can hang with you, or is that your default assumption? When do you actually say this stuff about Dana - in front of her, or later? I’m just trying to imagine how the commentary takes place.

If you invited Dana out, then I could understand you feeling a little uncomfortable at not feeling free to tell other friends to pull up a chair when that’s your habit. If you’re out at her invitation, though, it’s pretty rude to invite others to join you, and presumptuous for you to take on the role of host. You have no basis for feeling like the insult or rejection is coming from you.

By now, though, if you’ve been busy describing Dana this way to your many friends, they certainly know what the score is and shouldn’t feel any insult, anyway.

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
I feel like it’s selfish on Dana’s end to insist that other people are never included in our plans. In our circle, young people, recent college graduates, this is definitely a minority attitude, a relatively insulting one, and one that I don’t understand. That being said, maybe I’m being very rude to her. I feel like, in this situation, I’m being forced to be rude to SOMEONE- either by excluding other people, or by ignoring her clear preference to never see anyone she doesn’t explicitly include in plans.

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You aren’t being forced to be rude to anyone by leaving them out of an evening with Dana. Really. That attitude is very much a reflection of your youth and the fact that your crowd hasn’t yet experienced life without seemingly endless time to socialize.

I don’t agree with this business of forcing Dana to deal with others if your original plan was to go out alone. Either it’s clear from the beginning, when YOU issue the invite, that others can join you; or else you see Dana less often, on her terms. These are the accommodations that true friends learn to make for each other, and it’s not a sign of being weak or downtrodden.

That is, I assume you find something else of value in her that makes it worth being her friend. If it bugs you so much not to have the potential for a block party every time you go out, to the point that it overrides any other redeeming features she has… then you don’t really need to be friends with her any more, do you?

45

[QUOTE=burundi]

Gotta call bullshit. This kind of nonsense ends in high school for most women. msmith357, you’re right on about a lot of things, but your comments about women lead me to suspect that the subculture of women you know are very different from most of the women I’ve met.
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I’m in NYC so that is entirely possible.

However, I don’t think people change all that much from college or high school. The behavior is just a bit more subtle and has to be taken in the context of their adult environment.
Whether it’s ok to invite others depends on a number of factors:
-How exclusive is the event - is it an open party or an intimate dinner party?
-How accepting is the host to meeting new people?
-How close knit is the rest of the group - are you bringing a work friend to hang out with 5 of your college fraternity buddies?

46

Thank you, WhyNot, that’s a very helpful perspective. I do find myself wanting to make both Dana and other people who come along as comfortable as possible, and I never really think about my own comfort. I’m a “hostess” type, though-- when people are with me, I want them to be having a good time.

[QUOTE=noctilucent]
Can I ask - do your other friends that show up after you’re out with Dana actually ask if they can hang with you, or is that your default assumption? When do you actually say this stuff about Dana - in front of her, or later? I’m just trying to imagine how the commentary takes place.

[/QUOTE]

We’re in a pretty talkative social group- if someone asks me what I’m doing on whatever night, I would say something like, “I’m going to dinner with my SO” or “I’m working late and then going to the gym” or “I’m going to Dana’s and we’re watching a movie.” In the latter case, depending on who it is, they might say, oh, hey, can I come watch too? knowing that I’m generally someone who would love some extra company. However, myself knowing that Dana wouldn’t, I have to tell them no, which is ridiculously unnatural to me and feels incredibly rude. And I’m sure the other person is embarrassed as well, because they never would have asked, I’m sure, if they thought it would be a problem.

I do, however, disagree with this:

[QUOTE=noctilucent]

You aren’t being forced to be rude to anyone by leaving them out of an evening with Dana. Really. That attitude is very much a reflection of your youth and the fact that your crowd hasn’t yet experienced life without seemingly endless time to socialize.

I don’t agree with this business of forcing Dana to deal with others if your original plan was to go out alone. Either it’s clear from the beginning, when YOU issue the invite, that others can join you; or else you see Dana less often, on her terms. These are the accommodations that true friends learn to make for each other, and it’s not a sign of being weak or downtrodden.

That is, I assume you find something else of value in her that makes it worth being her friend. If it bugs you so much not to have the potential for a block party every time you go out, to the point that it overrides any other redeeming features she has… then you don’t really need to be friends with her any more, do you?
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A) None of us have “seemingly endless social time”. We all have jobs or grad school (well, except myself). Sometimes, other people who want to make plans together are those I haven’t seen in a couple of weeks. It’s great to see Dana but she doesn’t want to see anyone else, it seems. And yet, I still want to spend time with her.

B) It’s never an “I invite her” or “she invites me” sort of thing. It’s more, hey, want to get together? Sure, when are you free? exchange, very casual. Then, you find out that other people are getting together and ask you (and by extension, her) to go along. I don’t track down who originally contacted who. I always just wind up saying, “wow, I’d love to… but Dana wouldn’t”. I would never cancel on her to be with others, it’s just that no one else in my friend group is as exclusive as she is, and it’s difficult.

47

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
We’re in a pretty talkative social group- if someone asks me what I’m doing on whatever night, I would say something like, “I’m going to dinner with my SO” or “I’m working late and then going to the gym” or “I’m going to Dana’s and we’re watching a movie.” In the latter case, depending on who it is, they might say, oh, hey, can I come watch too? knowing that I’m generally someone who would love some extra company. However, myself knowing that Dana wouldn’t, I have to tell them no, which is ridiculously unnatural to me and feels incredibly rude. And I’m sure the other person is embarrassed as well, because they never would have asked, I’m sure, if they thought it would be a problem.
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Well, I won’t say you’re self-inviting friend is rude because obviously this is how things work in your circle of friends. But clearly this is a crowd takes a statement like “I’m going to so-and-so’s house” as an open invitation to come hang out. So perhaps don’t phrase it that way. Say “Dana and I are going to catch up” and people will be less likely to assume there’s a party in the works. If you’re talking to a guy, say “Dana and I are going to have a girls night” and I guarantee you that he won’t be tagging along.

48

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]

B) It’s never an “I invite her” or “she invites me” sort of thing. It’s more, hey, want to get together? Sure, when are you free? exchange, very casual. Then, you find out that other people are getting together and ask you (and by extension, her) to go along. I don’t track down who originally contacted who. I always just wind up saying, “wow, I’d love to… but Dana wouldn’t”. I would never cancel on her to be with others, it’s just that no one else in my friend group is as exclusive as she is, and it’s difficult.
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You may not, but for all you know, Dana might. She may have very specific and much more formal ideas. You may be thinking “well, this was a casual thing, I’m not even tracking who did the inviting” and she is thinking “darn it, I asked her out on purpose to talk to her specifically about something, and its turned into a block party.”

You admit up front that you and Dana are very different in how you relate to people, then assume that she has the same perspectives on the invitation than you do.

And this is wrong:

If this were a true statement, you’d be going out of your way to make sure Dana isn’t put into her uncomfortable spot - not picking the diner your friends are likely to show up at, even if you weren’t comfortable at a different place, not mentioning to friends you were going out with Dana, even if you knew they’d like to come along - what they won’t know won’t hurt them. And you wouldn’t be griping about it from an “I, I, I” perspective. You’d be saying “how can I manage these occasions” rather than “why does Dana have these hangups, why is she selfish.”

If you really think Dana is selfish, and you really can’t give her the type of friendship she needs, maybe you are both better off not being anything other than “bump into each other” friends.

49

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
I’m a “hostess” type, though-- when people are with me, I want them to be having a good time.
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This is a key thing w/r/t Dana. If you want her to have a good time, you have to accept that outings with her don’t encompass free-form invites to others. Otherwise, as Dangerosa mentiones, it’s really more about you want.

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
We’re in a pretty talkative social group- if someone asks me what I’m doing on whatever night, I would say something like, “I’m going to dinner with my SO” or “I’m working late and then going to the gym” or “I’m going to Dana’s and we’re watching a movie.” In the latter case, depending on who it is, they might say, oh, hey, can I come watch too?
[/quote]

This attitude, combined with your comment about how young you all are (not long out of undergrad), ties into my comment about seemingly endless social time. The style of socializing that you and your friends do is still very much the free-form style of undergrads who can pretty much see each other all the time, and hang out when they like - so there’s no real concept of wanting one-on-one time to catch up with a person. Your other comment about not having seen someone “in a couple of weeks” really underscores that - it’s hardly a long time at all, but it seems that way to you because it still represents a restriction of sorts. Just wait until you and your crowd start getting married, having kids, even just further on in grad school or careers. Getting together once every three months might be a lot!

Anyway, this is a little beside the point. The point is, Dana doesn’t go for open socializing, and you need to think how - or whether - you’ll accommodate that.

On a related note, I think you need to learn the art of not spilling all details to everyone. Friends won’t feel slighted if they aren’t invited to go out with you, if you don’t tell them everything you plan to do. More importantly, they won’t end up thinking poorly of Dana (who is a mutual friend/acquaintance, no?) because you make her look like the Grinch instead of someone with a different socializing style.

50

I’ve run into this a lot through life and can see both sides…

why not just clarify if Dana needs some one on one, or if she’s cool meeting up with others at some point IN ADVANCE? Maybe you could even do both per evening so EACH friends’ needs are being met. ex: you learn to enjoy a quiet dinner for Dana then Dana learns to mingle at the bar afterward for you? You could even tell to your other friends that you’re tied up til 9m then free to join them later - thus creating, a semi-spontaneous plan within a plan. There are 20 ways to make this work, as my GF and I are figuring out too. (btw, I’m over 30; she’s about to turn 30. So we’re at a stage where I’ve already been through these trials, and she’s learning as her friends get married lives/careers evolve). I’m sure by now both of your and Dana’s lives have changed quite a bit from the original post, and I’d be interested on your views now?

The only thing I really think everyone could realize better here is that both attitudes contribute to the fallout: when walls go up, it’s b/c something is bothering you both and nobody is talking it out. Ask her WHY it bothers her to have groups join in (fyi - it probably makes her feel less special); then respect her wishes to enjoy your friendship one on one. Similarly, when you invite HER out; she’ll be required to be more flexible and embrace spontaneous groups for you.

You also need to really LISTEN to what’s coming out of your mouth more, and what your friend “hears” through their own filter:

“I’m going to Dana’s and we’re watching a movie.” In the latter case, depending on who it is, they might say, oh, hey, can I come watch too? knowing that I’m generally someone who would love some extra company. However, myself knowing that Dana wouldn’t, I have to tell them no, which is ridiculously unnatural to me and feels incredibly rude…

EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT IT IS AT DANA’S HOUSE?!..and not really your call to be making at that point

Put yourself in the reverse situation: You’re having a big party, everyone is invited. Dana shows up with the introvert cops and shuts the whole thing down, kicking everyone one out and ruining YOUR EXPECTATION for a lively and fun evening. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? Which is more rude? In essence, you are doing this to the intimate moments of friendship she is trying to build with you when you let other people intrude, incidentally or intentionally. There are polite ways to handle it by saying: I’m out to dinner with Dana and in a deep conversation (or at Dana’s watching a movie), can we join you later?" BOOM. That easily.

If you ask her for her expectations for the evening and start honoring them more (when they’re her plans), I think you’ll pleasantly find that she’d be more than willing to grow into the more social role you’d like her to be. With the RIGHT amount of communication, consideration and compassion every day can be a win-win :slight_smile:

And don’t be afraid to outgrow your friendships, either. If she is SO inflexible ALL of the time, then maybe it’s best that you two stop trying to shape each other and just let bygones be bygones. You can still love each other for what you had… you just don’t need to hang out as much anymore.

51

I have to concur that the “more the merrier” attitude is a little college/high school and isn’t always appropriate. Why do you feel compelled that all of your friends have to do everything together?

52

This thread is from 2008, and the person who you are attempting to converse with hasn’t been here for about 6 years.

53

Does your friend feel this way ONLY about events she herself has planned, or does she feel the need to run crowd control at any and all gatherings?

If she does this all the time and she’s the only one in the group who gets butthurt (yea I said it) about others joining maybe you’d be better off not inviting her along in the first place.

54

Welllllll hmmmm NO.

The only reason I could see it OK to add another person would be if it was a spontaneous meeting. Otherwise its incredibly rude and can be downright offensive.

I’ll give you an example.

Friend A (male) is attached to their GF at the hip (annoying). They drag this GF to every event. Dude’s night out? the GF is there. The bar? The GF is there. Its sick and its rude.

Its nice that Friend A has found their S/O, but please do enlighten me as to why you think its ok to drag her to everything? For one if its a single gender party/get together please do not invite the person… its rude as hell and horrible for them, even if they don’t say it.

I don’t know how many guys have had to sit through a lame chick-flick or girl party…its rude, don’t do it to a guy. even if they claim they don’t care. They do, they are just doing it to see if they can get further later on if you know what I am saying.

No one likes it.
Ok but back to party-rules.

Nope never invite someone else. Its rude. Don’t assume you can just drag a guest. In fact i’d go far as saying don’t ask in the first place.

YOU were the one invited not YOU and WHOMEVER. You want YOU and WHOMEVER to hang out, you have your own event. Its that simple, then you decide who gets invited.

Otherwise? You are a rude mofo.

Yep. I said it.

Rude MOFO.

I’ve had the reverse where I had to suffer an all girl party because I was not told it was that. Other times I was told it was. No fun… :frowning: It really sucked and was strange…I only did it because I felt obliged…not because i wanted to. Please don’t ask guys to do this.

Now if that is not your problem and its friend and friend… also weird.

I had a buddy try to invite someone i never knew over. Um what? To my house no less. Its also not cool.
Now if you happen to RANDOMLY meet someone at a restaurant and are like “hey pull up a chair” that is an entirely different story because its happenstance.

But outside of happenstance… NO… its RUDE

55

This conversation is eight years old. You’re real late to the party :slight_smile:

56

Since we’re all running late, mind if I join?

57

Heck no, Pull up a chair. The more the merrier.

58

I know I’m late, but can I join in?

No?

Well, fine, then. I’m shutting down your whole party! :frowning: