I don’t think there was anything wrong with Phil’s response to that extremely juvenile thread.
I also don’t think there is anything remotely acceptable about bashing a person, analyzing her mental state, putting all sorts of childish stereotypes on her, and writing long, thought-out missives about why she sucks.
She wasn’t specifically addressing any of you. If you don’t like her personal ad, you don’t have to reply to it. Clearly she gets a lot of rude e-mail about it; by pissing and moaning in another silly e-mail to her about why she is such a waste of human flesh, you aren’t actually accomplishing anything.
Take the high road here, and be a little mature. You don’t have to like this woman. I can’t understand how posters became so pissed about her ad that they actually bothered to reply to it. To her, you’re just a nameless, faceless idiot, so getting all full of rage and wasting twenty minutes on an e-mail is a pretty ridiculous way to spend time. :rolleyes:
Also, not to get on my moral sawhorse or anything, but all 11000 of us Dopers are sort of on the same boat. We post, we make comments and observations and accusations about topics important to us (or maybe just funny), and we are judged by those posts.
However, every single time I’ve written a fellow poster off, they have gone on to prove themselves hugely different from my original observation. That’s the way we get to know people here - by trusting them, opening ourselves up to the whole community atmosphere, and letting the cards fall where they will.
I’s bet that every single on of you has said something that you later regretted, or at least questioned, that other posts forgave; aren’t others allowed the same freedom?
I agree with Phil’s comment that stupid, immature shit like this demeans our image as an intelligent board.
Yes, Phil can be blunt and sometimes comes across as rude. But he’s honest, usually on target, and funny to boot. If you don’t like him, ignore him; there are many of us who do respect and appreciate his contributions. Grow up.
My feelings about that personal ad thread are a bit up in the air, but I do believe that Phil is a little more often condescending and vicious than is agreeable in a poster.
Nacho is right, if you dont like what she put in her ad - dont read it/reply to it.
BUT: cant the same be said of Phil?
If he didnt like the tone of that thread, he can also choose to hit the back button, and go to another thread of his obviously superior level.
See, me myself, I figure: if she put the ad up, its open season. If they posted the thread about it, they are just as open to critisism. The thing goes both ways.
The ad was bitchy, as is her right to be. The thread was a bit mean - as is their right to be. BUT dont tell them they should make fun of her unless you tell her not to be a bitch.
Dont you see? Being pissy at the posters in the thread is exactly as bad as them picking on whats-her-name.
I also feel that by posting this, I open myself up to responses to this statement - isnt that how it works?
Disagree with me if you want, but try to deny me my right to my opinion and you can pry my keyboard from my cold dead hands!
Wow. Phil, I’m shocked. While I’ve never liked you, I’ve always maintained at least a modicum of respect and human decency for you. In all our dealings, I’ve never really ‘removed the gloves,’ as it were, and just tore into you mercilessly. No, I take that back. I did, to a small extent, once, and immediately apologized because I felt sorry about it.
See, Phil, I have a concience. I feel bad when I’m a jerk. I feel sorry when I’ve wronged someone. Amazingly, you seem to have been born without this small bit of self. Nothing I’ve ever seen you type has ever had a bit of humanity in it. Just empty soul, a big giant lacking that can never be filled.
I’ve seen you described time and time again as ‘curmudgeonly’ or ‘smug,’ or ‘grumpy.’ I think you’re simply an asshole. You don’t care about anyone but yourself, and have no sense of shame to stop you from being a complete, raging dick-hole.
I pity a person such as you. You just don’t know when to stop, or when to shut up. I’m firmly convinced half the shit you say is just to piss people off. Do you go home, print out the thread, and beat off while reading about how much people hate you? You sick fuck.
I don’t understand why you act how you do. Lots of people here like you, yet you maintain your need to be a little snively piece of shit. Why in the FUCK would you say what I italicised? Do you revel in other people’s pain? Would you DARE say the same thing as an offense towards other people on the board? Many, many other people have posted about their emotional pains. Would you dare dredge that up to be used as ammo against them? Would you?
Don’t say “Well you poked fun at her pain.” That’s a lie. Reread my letter. Did I ever poke fun or attempt to induce emotional duress on miss Beth? I don’t think so. I wrote a serious letter asking about her emotional problems.
You claim to be so enlightened, oh, look at me. I’m a fuckin vegetarian PETA little god-child who can do no wrong! I’m so caring and sympathetic towards everyone and everything in the life rainbow!
Bullshit, Phil. It’s a fucking act to cover your self serving, ego-centric whoring. Here’s a song for you that I wrote.
Phil Dennison was a man/
Who claimed to care alot/
But Phil was only/
A bag full of snot.
Frank doesn’t care. Any ol’ jab’ll do, even if it’s a cheap shot. See, cheap shots are easy, so Frank doesn’t have to work hard to think of them.
What he’s referring to, of course, is this thread where I try to find out what’s wrong with a baby, this thread where I talk about one of the more bizarre moments in my life. And it was a donkey, and I did not kill it, thank you. Please get your facts straight.
Oh, and in case anyone’s wondering, Phil’s comment about my “piece of shit” thread refers to this thread wherein I lament how bad my life situation was (is). Of course, people suffering from depression are fair game to be made fun of, why else would they suffer from depression? I don’t know.
Regardless of everything else, was the ‘loser’ comment to elmwood not the actions of a “jerk”? Aren’t we supposed to refrain from calling other Dopers names for absolutely no reason. Especially ones we don’t know! pld, I really don’t know you at all so I am not going to even debate how you are an ‘asshole- but a cool asshole who everyone loves…’ What I am curious about is why you would call elmwood a loser when it was really Homer you had a problem with. elmwood just asked who would date her. Seems like you were just picking fights.
Though I agree with kellibelli about everything being open season, aren’t we supposed to refrain from directly insulting another posters outside of the pit? Haven’t others been officially warned for this?
Bear_Nenno, upon reflection, you are correct. My beef was with Homer, and I dragged elmwood into it, and he caught the fallout. So I apologize to elmwood for my comments to him in that thread–they were out of line and irrelevant. I do, however, still disagree that posting the link in the first place was a good thing to do, anticipating as I would the probable actions of certain other Dopers in response. The rest of my comments stand.
Frankd6: NEWS FLASH - Not all the regular posters are familiar with all the other regular posters! I’ve been here for 8 months and have over 2500 posts, the first real dealing with pld that I’ve had is in my thread about atheists and Christmas, right here in the Pit. pldennison in that thread didn’t seem the least bit grumpy or rude, in fact our little debate was quite civil I think (especially for the Pit) and he even helped me gain a new understanding of his point of view on things. That’s why his behavior in MPSIMS caught me by surprise. Why act that way in MPSIMS but not the Pit?
SPOOFE Bo Diddly:
And WHAT exactly has he done to deserve special treatment? I’ve seen some pretty rough times in the past, and you know what, I think I’ve earned the right to be an asshole, I heear it’s very theraputic. I’m gonna be a dick from now on and then best part is - NOBODY CAN CALL ME ON IT! That’s right, I’m gonna use the pldennison defense - “That’s the way I am, I admit it, and so everyone else has to change to get used to it, not me.”
Seriously, I want to know what gives pld a free pass? I fucked up a few times in the past here and was called on it. When I realized I was wrong, I admitted it and apologized for it. Here pld says:
So he admits he’s being just as bad as the people he’s chastizing, but still refuses any wrong doing? Just cuz you can dish it and take it does not mean you’re right in your actions. If you’re doing the same thing you’re railing against, then shut the hell up! Might as well snort a line of coke just while on TV to do a spot on how bad drugs are.
pld says these people are wrong. pld admits to doing the same thing as these people, who he claims are wrong for doing it. Therefore, pld is wrong. Being able to “take it” does not make him more right.
Because some of you are “used to it” does not make it ok. Some people aren’t used to it. If you’re used to, you put up with it, but I don’t see why everyone except pld should have to change their attitudes, just because he’s been here a long time and has 4000+ posts. I have 2500+ posts, does that mean I can be an asshole and get away with it? How many posts does it take to be able to call people losers without fear of reprisal? How many posts do I need to be right all the time and make everyone get used to me? If it’s not a post count thing, then how many months do I need to be here? You tell me what the criteria is, so I know when I can go off being a dick to people and then be excused for it cuz I’ve been around a long time and others have gotten used to it.
Guess what, all you oldbies, the newbies aren’t used to it. The mid-timers aren’t used to it. Why should everyone adjust for his sake. The masses should not adjust to accomodate one person. I really want an answer to that, and it better not be because of his god damn post count or months on the board, because we all know that is not a reason to get away with being an ass.
Nacho4Sara:
Sara, did the fact that he was being just as juvenile escape you? Bashing a person is not acceptable? How about calling people losers and impying their opinons aren’t worthy because they are single, that is acceptable? As I’ve said before, I agree with his senitments, but he’s still wrong for his delivery. And what gets me the most, he’ll admit doing what they were doing, yet when he does it, he’s not wrong! Can someone please explain this to me?!
And back to Frankd6:
Pretty fucked up Frank. And taken out of context. He did NOT post a dead baby pic for laughs or to make fun of, he was wondering what was wrong with it and gave pletny of warning to anyone who might click on the link. And as for the donkey, he didn’t laugh at it, he just posted a strange story. He wasn’t even the one driving the car. Now what if I told a story about how I hit some deer on the side of the rode and totally fucked up my 1 month old car? People hit deer all the time - it’s called an ACCIDENT, you dick. How bullshit to try to make someone feel bad about an accident.
As for considering the source? Who else but Homer should respond to remarks made to Homer? You’ve made two worthless posts here, why not go find something better to do with your time?
:sigh:
I spent a lot of time writing this post, so I’m gonna post it because I want the people I’m responding to and pld to see some of what I said; although when I previewed, I saw pld apologize to elmwood. As I say, I agree with pld that the link may not have been the wisest thing to do and that people should not have been so quick to judge her. Although I still don’t understand why being single means your opinions about relationships count for less.
But seeing as how my whole beef was pld not admitting he was wrong and now seeing his apology, I doubt I’ll have mush else to say here.
What are you saying, Crunchy, you want us all to be perfect? Why, how sweet! How thoughtful! And as long as you’re waving your magic wand to produce perfection, do me next, okay?
[POOF!] Ooooh, this is marvelous! I am now perfect! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am now released forever from the possibility of ever behaving like an asshole! I’m so happy!
Okay, now do Phil. Come ooonnnn, Crunchy, make nice, now, we’re all grownups here…that’s my goooood boy!
[POOF!] Okaaayyy! Way to go! Phil is now also perfect, and is also released forever from the possibility of ever behaving like an asshole! Aren’t you happy, Phil? Phil?
Oh. He’s out in the kitchen getting a new bowl of Cheerios…
Well, until he comes back, let’s discuss this:
Here’s your answer, dear: Don’t waste a single microhertz of mental energy worrying about this, because it’s never gonna happen anyway. What, do you see people on this board bending over to accomodate anybody’s little personality quirks, be they totally assholish or merely annoying? Hell no. I’d say it’s just the opposite–the minute an annoying personality quirk is detected, watch the Pit threads begin to grow and metastasize, like the green and black stuff on the lunch meat in your refrigerator (don’t eat that stuff, boy, it’ll kill you. And don’t feed it to the dog, either.)
So there, now, I just released you from worrying about something. Aren’t you glad? If you now have a frighteningly large empty spot in your Worry Machine, you have my permission to go over to Great Debates and join the new “Abortion” thread now in progress. Now, THERE’S something to worry about (the thread, not the issue).
Wow, Duck Duck Goose, you really know how to miss someone’s point, don’t you? And while we’re at it, why don’t you take that condescending tone and go fuck yourself with it. I was being as civil as possible here before now and I don’t need you coming in twisting my words around.
When did I say that? I said when you’re wrong, admit it and don’t give free passes to someone because you’re used to it, which is pretty much what OTHER posters were saying. THAT’S being a grown up, not telling everyone else to just accept it. I’ve already stated in this thread that I’ve fucked up here, I was called on it, I admitted being wrong and apologized. I only asked the same of Phil.
**
I never had a serious problem with Phil other than his attitude to those other posters who didn’t deserve it. Phil has admitted the same. I said that’s all wanted from him. I’m not perfect and I never claimed anyone here should be, but when you’re wrong, admit it. That’s what I was saying, that’s what Phil did and it’s over between pld and me as far as I’m concerned. There’s no hard feelings on my end, and I hope none on his end. And this was all done well before you decided to pop in here with your post, so actually, your attack on me has jack shit to do with this, since I’ve already said I don’t have a problem with pld anymore. For some reason though, you decided to overlook that I had said, “my whole beef was pld not admitting he was wrong and now seeing his apology, I doubt I’ll have mush else to say here,” and posted your shit anyway.
And yes, we’re all grownups, except for the ass who needs to belittle people by talking to them like they were a goddam dog being paper trained. Does talking down to people you don’t know make you feel like a more important person, does it? Just another hearty FUCK YOU for taking that tone with me. I am not a goddam child, so don’t talk to me like one. It is possible to have an argument without belittling the other person, of course when you don’t have logic to work with, I guess you take what you got, huh Goose?
No, but I did see the first replies to the OP state “yes, he’s like that, but we got used to it,” or something to that effect. So they agreed he can be an ass, but they’re used to it, so they let it go. They aren’t bending over backwards, but they aren’t calling him on it either.
Hell, Spoofe said he earned the right to be a tad assholic, or did you choose to skip over that too? How do you earn the right to be an asshole?
And this just bugs me for the shear arrogance of it. Fuck you again Goose, we both know I don’t need your permission to do jack shit around here.
I’m the one who started the whole rant. NOT Crunchy.
I made it because I thought Phil was acting like an ass, and egging on a fight in a NON Pit thread. I figure hey-I’ll take this to the Pit. Call me a goodie goodie mod kiss up, whatever.
I’m sorry, but people who go around acting like hypocrites piss me off. Self-righteousness is one of my pet peeves. And while most of the time, I do ignore Phil, lately he’s been grating on my already frazzled nerves. So I figured I’m better off ranting about it and venting.
I also find it incredibly ironic that Phil will say, You’re not in that situation, so you shouldn’t judge others if you don’t know them…yet he’s perfectly fine calling people losers without lovelives as if that has ANYTHING to do with one’s worth as a person. Why does that make a person a loser? So they aren’t dating anyone? Maybe some of us don’t need a SO to complete our lives. Perhaps we’re happy.
So fine, if you can ignore it. I can too, in small doses. And don’t give me that shit Phil that you can take it and dish it out. Does that make it right? Sure…whatever.
Fine, call me a bitch. I don’t care. But if I think someone’s being an ass, I’ll say it, thank you very much. I don’t let anyone get away with it. I don’t care who the hell you are…SDMB is not a high school clique.
Duck Duck Goose, I think that Crunchy already did a great job responding to you, but I’m gonna add something. Forive me if I’m just repeating, but I think it’s the biggest point in this argument.
You say that it’s impossible for everybody to be perfect all the time. Great. Grand. Fantastic. That’s true.
However, as even those people who are defending pld have said, he is an asshole for a large amount of the time. But, apparently, that’s ok, cause we’re all used to it. As Crunchy said, not everybody is.
You say that nobody on this board will “bend over backwards” to accomodate anybody else, using the example of Pit threads about people acting like assholes. However, this thread bears an incredible resemblance to a thread about somebody acting like an asshole, and you show up saying that it’s not right. So far, the only argument I have seen presented in Phil’s defense is that it’s ok for him to be an asshole, because he has good points.
Well, is it just me, or is having good points not the most important thing? This is a message board, based on communication, and therefore, one needs to be able to express his or her points in an effective manner. In the thread in question, Phil, however many good points he had, presented them like an asshole, and got called on it. What’s the problem with that? Maybe he’ll learn to present his points better next time, without being so damn smug.
I suppose, then, it would behoove me to question how you could argue for four pages in another thread about how important it is for you to attend church on religous holidays, yet you cannot be bothered to even pretend to uphold the virtues and values that are taught at that church. I, at least, do not pretend to be an adherent to a religion that teaches love above all else, while starting rants about people in the Pit. Did you read that Matthew 7:1-5 yet? If you’re so concerned about hypocrisy, you’d better start with yourself.
Uh, I claim some responsibility for that four page thead, and Polycarp and I were ranting about employee morale, not much else. So, to be nit-picky, let’s say half of that thread was about attending church on holidays.
Please tell Guinistasia how she should conduct herself - yeah, that’s it. I’m sure she’d like to hear your interpretation on her religious philosophy. Seeing as you’re such an expert on her religion, and all.
And I don’t get it. I mean, I really want to stay out of whether your are a pissy old curmudgeon, or what. But where does the fact that you are not religious (something that we really figured out, honey - you take every effort to frequently mention it) make any difference in this discussion? Why can’t Guinastasia start rants about people in the Pit? If you are being irritating and pissy, why can’t she call you on it? (And you’ll note - this thread is not being generated by just Guinastasia alone - other people have input, and it’s not all just a pldennison lovefest.)
I bet I know as much about her religion as she does. Maybe not her denomination, but general Christian principles, definitely.
It doesn’t. The fact that I’m not religious is irrelevant; the fact that she claims to be religious is quite relevant. Try to follow the logical chain here, dear:
Guinastasia says that if there’s one thing she can’t stand, it’s hypocrites.
Guinastasia rants and raves about how important it is for her to be at Christian church services on holidays.
Guinastasia therefore places great importance on attending services for a religion which teaches certain principles regarding behavior and attitude.
Principles which a cursory glance through her posts will reveal she does not uphold, nor does she even care that she does not, apparently.
Guinastasia is, therefore, a hypocrite.
It’s called “irony.” Look into it. I guess I’m sick in that, whenever I am subjected to such a rant by a person who refers to him- or herself as a Christian, I enjoy wielding their own Scriptures against them. It’s amusing.
Ultimately, all it means is that I can toss her onto the pile that contains Wildest Bill and several others as people who don’t even have the courage of their own convictions when it comes to their behavior.
Oh, she can, but she shouldn’t expect it to support her position on the other thread about how important church is to her. At best, it simply undermines her contention that Christmas church services are more than a social/recreational activity.
She is free to do whatever she wants. When did I imply otherwise? If I detect an inconsistency between her words and her deeds, then I’ll say so–much as several others are doing on this thread with me. See how it works? Nobody is safe. If you complain about someone else’s behavior, someone else will complain about yours. (Duck Duck Goose absolutely nailed it.) Eventually, each Pit thread will simply devolve into snotty nitpicking about individual personality flaws.
Well, no shit. Keen perception of the obvious there, Kreskin. I don’t fool myself into thinking that every Doper is going to love, or even like, me; nor do I attempt to hide my character flaws behind faux charm. Nor would I have it any other way. There are Dopers off the board who know me, and who I spend time with when I can, and their opinions are far more important to me than some others. There are also, even more to the point, my friends and my family. Believe me, their opinions about me are infinitely more important than, say, Homer’s. I wouldn’t want him to labor for even a millisecond under the misimpression that I care fuck-all what he thinks of me. He, and you, and anyone else is free to love me or hate me without worry that I will lose a minute of sleep either way.
I said, I do enjoy going to Church during the holidays. HOWEVER, I don’t really attend church as much as I used to-I’m kind of getting away from it. I like attending church during the holidays because it’s something we do every year, it’s a tradition, and something we do as a family. Other than that, I didn’t really say much about MY religious beliefs, which really are none of your damn business, Phil. I think that’s between me and my god. And it’s for another thread.
And what, pray tell, can you tell me about my religion? Perhaps I have my own personal interpretations. Perhaps I do think in terms of love and respect. However, that doesn’t stop me from calling someone out if they’re being an ass. It doesn’t stop me from standing up to people I think are acting shitty. Just because I may be religious, does that mean I have to walk around like a martyr all the time and smile and never open my mouth or speak out against something that pisses me off? You have a LOT to learn, buddy boy.
(Hell, Christ himself didn’t hesitate from calling out hypocrites. Of course, YOU already know that, being an expert on religion. And what’s your beef with religion? Fine, you aren’t religious, but some others are…NICE to be soooo OPEN MINDED…) :rolleyes:
All I can say is you seem to be a VERY unhappy individual, who gets his kicks from being smug to others and pointing out their flaws. I don’t hate you-more I pity you.
But then of course, you ADMIT to all this, which makes it okay, right? So, in other words, if Josef Stalin were to admit to being an evil bastard, would that justify what HE did? (and no, I’m not comparing you to Stalin-simply asking if admitting that one is an asshole excuses it?)
I’m not giving Phil a free pass. I LIKE his posts. I think he is honest, up-front, enjoyable, and often very sarcastic and humorous. I’ve met him in real life and I liked him as a person as well as a poster, which only increased my respect for him. I don’t have to give him free passes. I don’t see that he is doing anything wrong.
So lemme get this straight: everyone on the board is allowed to criticize a woman, call her ugly, stupid, self-righeous, bitchy, rude, impolite, etc, etc, but the minute someone says, in the same exact tone that the other posters were using, that they are losers for wasting their time bitching about her, he’s the dickhead? Yeah right. I think the posters in that thread were being needlessly vitriolic, cruel, and juvenile. Had I posted a reply (I thought about it, but decided not too), I would have been nicer, yes, but Phil’s comments were not out of conjunction with what others in the thread were saying. I call that “a taste of one’s own medicine.” When I read Phil’s comments, I thought that he was being purposely cruel to point out how cruel the other posters were being.
I reiterate my point: we are all in the same boat as that woman, trying our best of find our own little spot in the Internet community. Where does anyone get off sitting in judgment of her?
If you don’t like Phil, don’t read his posts. How fucking hard is that? What do you hope to accomplish here? A complete and total change of personality? :rolleyes:
Please tell Guinistasia how she should conduct herself - yeah, that’s it. I’m sure she’d like to hear your interpretation on her religious philosophy. Seeing as you’re such an expert on her religion, and all.