Please change the Pit tagline [New Pit Rules]

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@Loach

I appreciate that you are much more evolved than me. By the way, when you were management how often did you notice me flaming anyone?

I have a terrible memory for poster names. I couldn’t tell if you flamed anybody or not. But in any case that should have no bearing on this discussion.

[Mtgman]

@Arnold_Winkelried

I posted this in another thread, but I like the sound of my own voice so much that I’ll repeat it here. I for one am perfectly able to disagree with people without calling them assholes or telling them to eat shit. I have no problem with the new Pit rules. It’s the rules I live with in my day-to-day interactions with people all day: at work, at school, at church, at my non-profit group meetings, in public, etc.

I highly doubt it will impinge upon my own personal style either. I could operate under those rules with no problems whatsoever. That having been said, I value free and open communication, and see no compelling reason to impose these strictures upon the manner of how others choose to communicate. If I want to experience the range of human expression, it behooves me to allow maximum leeway on the part of those I communicate with. My own style is freely chosen. Theirs should be too. Freedom is ugly sometimes. Freedom is almost always preferable to restriction.

Enjoy,
Steven

[aldiboronti]

On the whole, with one possible exception, these are sensible rules. I’m pleased that discussion of mod/admin rulings has been moved to ATMB, the Pit was never the right place for it.

The possible exeption is the “No abusive remarks directed at other posters.” I think this could well stifle The Pit. What’s the point, after all, of pitting someone if you can’t hurl a little honest abuse at them? ‘Take it to The Pit’ will have a rather hollow ring after this. Why bother if the rules there forbid what all of us here have come to expect (and appreciate) from a good pitting - choice Anglo-Saxon terms hurled with abandon and creative gusto at the head of the offender.

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@Richard_Parker

There is some ambiguity with charges of lying or idiocy, but it’s not even close to the ambiguity surrounding what is obscene or vulgar.

The rule is not about obscenity or vulgarity per se. The rule is about insults.

[SoulFrost]

@Arnold_Winkelried

I get into disagreements at work (and at church, and at my non-profit group) all the time - sometimes pretty heated disagreements. And you know what? We don’t insult each other, and we till manage to work with each other civilly once the disagreement is resolved. Because we’re adults.

I also think you have a warped idea of what the word “adult” means.

[Loach]

@Arnold_Winkelried

I don’t know, but if they do, go check it out and see if they allow discussions on politics, death penalty, abortion, etc.

Yeah I know, this is the only board that discusses those esoteric subjects. Its a great idea to remove any personality from this board. Looks like a lot of the paying customers are lining up behind you in agreement.

Loach
Future Guest

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@Gadarene

…Because the Pit existed as a safety valve. Really, Arnold.

Really? what’s stopping people from throwing death threats around in the Pit? It’s not like they can go to another forum and do it.
When the board first started, there wasn’t a Pit. And I never noticed that it was so unmanageable that each thread was filled iwth insults. I participate in a couple of other message boards with a flaming forum. And they survive just fine.

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@SoulFrost

You wanna tell that to the people who pay money to post there?

I’m not a moderator here so I don’t have to. But the moderators do have to tell the paying posters plenty of other things that they didn’t like to hear.

[Giraffe]

@Arnold_Winkelried

Giraffe: all your objections could apply equally well to the “don’t call a poster an idiot” or “don’t call a poster a liar” rules in GD (I forget, maybe the “no calling someone a liar” rule is gone in GD, I’ll have to check.) And yet GD survived for many years with those rules.

As Gadarene said, I think a big part of that has been having the Pit available for people to mock idiots who have proven to be immune to logic and reason in GD.

I’m not saying it’s impossible for someone to post here and stay within the new rules, I just have concerns that we’re going to end up needlessly warning or banning a lot of people whenever emotions run high. People get frustrated at times, that doesn’t make them bad posters who need a lifetime ban from the boards.

[Richard_Parker]

@Arnold_Winkelried

The rule is not about obscenity or vulgarity per se. The rule is about insults.

True, but unresponsive. Banning insults would be as unambiguous as banning accusations of lying. Banning “vulgar or obscene” insults retains all the ambiguity present in banning obscenity or vulgarity.

[Giraffe]

@Mtgman

I highly doubt it will impinge upon my own personal style either. I could operate under those rules with no problems whatsoever. That having been said, I value free and open communication, and see no compelling reason to impose these strictures upon the manner of how others choose to communicate. If I want to experience the range of human expression, it behooves me to allow maximum leeway on the part of those I communicate with. My own style is freely chosen. Theirs should be too. Freedom is ugly sometimes. Freedom is almost always preferable to restriction.

Very well said.

[Loach]

@Arnold_Winkelried

I have a terrible memory for poster names. I couldn’t tell if you flamed anybody or not. But in any case that should have no bearing on this discussion.

I was responding to your quote:

@Arnold_Winkelried

If it is a hardship for you to disagree with someone without the profanity, then as I said somewhere else, I don’t think the problem lies in the Pit rules.

Sorry you can argue both ways.

[SoulFrost]

@Arnold_Winkelried

I’m not a moderator here so I don’t have to. But the moderators do have to tell the paying posters plenty of other things that they didn’t like to hear.

Maybe, but how does that line up with your “when I’m at work” analogy?

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@Loach

Looks like a lot of the paying customers are lining up behind you in agreement.

In any of these threads, the people most opposed are going to be the ones that post. The people that don’t care won’t bother.

[Der_Trihs]

@Arnold_Winkelried

Just out of curiosity - did it put a crimp in your lifestyle that you couldn’t insult a poster in GQ? Or that you couldn’t issue death threats against another poster in the Pit? Was that too much nannying for you?

No, but being unable to say “you’re a liar” or “I don’t believe you” is very awkward. It in essence forces ME to lie, when I don’t believe that someone is being honest. And it hands a huge advantage to anyone willing to be dishonest.

As for the Pit rules, they look tailor made for trolls, especially Guests who don’t care if they get banned too. Post something about how women are ordained by God to be servants or the inferior of men would likely draw insults, and end up with both people being banned.

With such vague rules, which strike me as designed more as an excuse for banning people, I doubt I’ll post in the Pit. I might get banned calling someone who’s insulting women a misogynist or something of the sort.

[Ogre]

@Colibri

Before people get to speculating too much, Ed has indicated that he will follow up the revisions to the Pit rules with a FAQ and respond to comments on the changes.

…sometime in 2013.

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@Loach

I was responding to your quote:
Sorry you can argue both ways.

That was a generic you, not a “you in particular, Loach, userid 34125”

[sailor]

@Arnold_Winkelried

I posted this in another thread, but I like the sound of my own voice so much that I’ll repeat it here. I for one am perfectly able to disagree with people without calling them assholes or telling them to eat shit. I have no problem with the new Pit rules. It’s the rules I live with in my day-to-day interactions with people all day: at work, at school, at church, at my non-profit group meetings, in public, etc.

So what’s the point of having the Pit now? Why not just close it down?

[Loach]

@Arnold_Winkelried

That was a generic you, not a “you in particular, Loach, userid 34125”

Then don’t quote me in your response.

[Arnold_Winkelried]

@Richard_Parker

True, but unresponsive. Banning insults would be as unambiguous as banning accusations of lying. Banning “vulgar or obscene” insults retains all the ambiguity present in banning obscenity or vulgarity.

I never said the rule would be easy to apply. I’m sure it will give a lot of work for the moderators, especially at first. Like the “no hate speech” rule or the “no insulting posters outside of the Pit” rule.