I think you are right.
I don’t care what they are doing at table two because my main goal in phase one is topl 4. If we finish early I’ll go size up the other players but top 4 of my game is a guaranteed seat at the final table regardless of how fast/slow they play. The same # of chips are at that table so their pace does not matter to my goal.
If your table is acting significantly faster than the other, you’re paying the blinds more often. For example, if you’re playing ten hands when the other table is playing 8, two players at your table will have paid the blinds twice when everyone at the slow table will have only paid them once. How much of a difference that makes will depend on a lot of factors but all things being equal there is an effect.
If you’re at the faster table, you are paying the blinds more often, but you’re also on the button more often. The only effect I can think of is that the better players might have more of an advantage at the fast table, since they get more opportunities to exploit their skill advantage. Even that’s probably not the case, however, as the tables are playing until half of the players are out, not until a certain time limit has been reached.
First of all, I’d like to disagree with what constitutes a “playable” hand. Limiting yourself to only “premium” hands such as AA-JJ/AKs-AQs is a very bad idea, because you’ll lose a ton of money to the blinds and people will just fold as soon as you play a hand.
You want to play enough hands so that you don’t stand out as a “rock” (definition below). If you’re in late position and there have been no raises, feel free to play just about anything with any value (anything suited, anything paired, medium connectors such as 98o, any offsuit high cards). If you’re in early position, don’t bother playing good-but-not-great hands (e.g. AQo), as you will end up losing money.
Secondly, sizing up your opponents is as valuable as sizing up your hand. There are two independent ways of categorizing players: tightness and aggressiveness.
Tightness is a measure of how many hands they play. A person who is tight plays only good hands, and a person who is loose plays a lot of hands. Good players are allowed to be looser than bad players, since they can dig themselves out of a bad situtation later. People who are too tight will be involved with too few pots, and when they are, they will not reap a very large reward. People who are too loose will lose too many small pots.
Aggressiveness is a measure of how strongly they play their hand. A person who his aggressive will press an advantage, and a person who is passive will tend to be very cautious and wait for the nuts before moving. People who are too aggressive will typically end up throwing money away pressing bad situations; people who are too passive will win less money when they win.
People who are tight and passive are known as “rocks”. They won’t play anything, they’ll fold to any raise, and if you end up heads-up with one of these guys, push them around a lot and immediately fold if they push back. They’ll almost never bluff.
People who are loose and passive are known as “calling stations”. They’ll play a lot of hands and stay in just to see what the flop/turn/river brings, and if you end up with one of these guys, consider yourself lucky. They’ll end up throwing away significant amounts of money every hand chasing at little glimmers of hope. They’ll rarely bluff.
People who are loose and aggressive are known as “maniacs”. They’ll raise with anything, bluff a lot, and in general, bring wild swings of fortune to the table. In the long run, they’ll probably lose, but it’ll be quite a ride.
What you want to be is tight and aggressive. You want to be fairly selective about the hands you play, but when you play them, try and make the most out of them.
And don’t end up like one of the other three types.
Third, understand how the game evolves as a tournament progresses. The fewer people you have at the tables, the looser you need to play. The higher the blinds, the looser and more aggressive you need to play.
Most people will make the mistake of playing loose when the blinds are small and there are many people at the table, and then tightening up when the stakes start getting higher. In fact, it should be the exact opposite.
There is a particular phenonmenon in poker tourneys known as “the hump”. If the top three places pay out, and there are 4 people left at the table, everyone starts becoming very, very conservative. Nobody wants to be the highest ranking loser. I don’t have enough tournament experience to say definitively what to do – I usually play cash games.
Finally, don’t forget to have fun. I trust you aren’t gambling with your rent money, and that you’re playing poker because you enjoy it – well, be sure to enjoy it. You can always earn more money, but you’ll never get back the 2-3 hours that you spent in the tournament.
I’ve played in a few tournaments, online and in a casino, and I don’t like it very much. So I just don’t do it any more. 
I was thinking more of the point of view of a newbie player who isn’t going to be as able to exploit position as well as someone with more experience. Greenback is a new player who’s going to be up against people who play frequently. If he ends up at a faster moving table IMHO he’ll have another disadvantage to overcome. Again, not like I think this would be a make-or-break factor for any player, just something to consider to neutralize a potential disadvantage. Nothing I want to argue too strenuously for one way or the other, just a suggestion.
Unless the tournament has a very strange structure, I strongly disagree. On an 8-handed table, in a home game tournament, AQ is definitely a raising hand even from early position. This becomes more true as the stacks get shorter (relative to the blinds) and game becomes short-handed, but if this is anything like home games I’ve played in it’s an easy raise. There’s just too good a chance that you’ll be called by mediocre hands, held by players who won’t know to throw their hands away when you hit your ace. You may also steal the blinds, which is a fine result with A-high.
That’s true, but the fact that everyone else will be playing so loose means there are good opportunities to pick up chips. You should be playing tighter than they are, probably, but not so tight that you’re ditching AQ preflop in an unraised pot.
It makes a big difference. Unlike a cash game, in a tournament you’ll probably never have 100 big blinds in your stack, and if you start out with that much you’ll soon have less. The blinds are too valuable in a tournament to play that tight (folding AQ 8-handed).
You should get in with us. If you move quickly, you could be playing tonight and get some tournament play under your belt. You might not have a way to deposit yet but someone’s generally got enough cash available to loan you some and then you can pay them back later. $20 bucks will get approximately 33 games if you don’t play anything else and you could play a few low-cost tournaments online to get some more practice. Playing in person isn’t the same as playing online, but most of the strategy carries over.
You are such the Pokertropolis pimp…
Hey, new players are always nice and what better way to learn to play than by experience?
Why, when I read this sentence, is the term sucker coming to mind lol
Thanks for all the tips. No mortgage money on the table. Just my peronal entertainment budget for two months ($40)so I better make the most of it and have fun. The guys that I know will be there are a great bunch.
I doubt I will make your game tonight asterian but I like the idea. I may join you in the future if a spot is available.
Clearly you don’t know us Dopers in the Thursday night game very well.
(And there’s this curse to the established players whereby whenever somebody new comes in, they inevitably end up in the money. Duke of Rat won his first three weeks in a row MF’r.)
Where is this game at?
I just downloaded the software and am funding it for next week’s game but I don’t see the game for…(is it in 20 min?) listed in the private games, in progress games, or completed…what gives?
Another question…
Pot odds? What gives? Does it deal with the size of the pot against my chances of winning or what? Can someone lay it out for me.
Is this what cramming for an exam feels like?
“Pot odds” refers to the amount of money in the pot as compared to the amount of money you must put into the pot to continue in the hand. So, say there’s $50 in the pot on the river (the last betting round), and your opponent puts in a half-pot sized bet of $25. There’s now $75 in the pot, and you must put in $25 to have a chance at winning the $75, meaning that your pot odds are 3-1. Therefore, if you feel that there is a better than 1 in 4 chance that your hand is good, you should call.
Now, say that this situation occurred on the flop, not the river, and that you had only a flush draw. The odds against your making a flush on the next card are about 4-1, and you’re only getting 3-1 from the pot, so it would seem like you should fold. However, you have to consider the fact that if you do make your flush you’ll likely win enough additional money from your opponent to (retroactively) justify your call on the flop, while if you don’t make your flush you won’t be calling any more big bets. This is a case of your implied pot odds justifying a call.
Finally, what if this situation occurred on the turn (second to last betting round), and you had a mediocre hand that you thought might be good. Say that your opponent has been very aggressive and has pushed lots of weak hands, and you feel that there is a 2-1 chance that your mediocre holding is the best hand. Since you’re getting 3-1 from the pot, the straight pot odds seem to argue for a call. However, since you know your opponent to be aggressive, you have to account for the fact that he will probably put in another big bet on the river whether he’s got a good hand or not. Say, for the sake of argument, a 3/4-pot sized bet.
So, you’re not actually putting in $25 to win $75. On the river, the pot will be $100, and your opponent bets $75. In this case, to see the hand to the end, you’ll have to put in $100 ($25 + $75) to win $150 ($50 + $25 + $75), which makes your reverse implied pot odds 3-2. Since you estimate your chances of having the best hand as being worse than that (2-1), you should fold on the turn even though you’d be getting your odds if there was to be no action on the river.
Obviously, you’re not expected to go through these arithmetical gymnastics every time you have to make a decision. You just should have a basic understanding of the concepts, which will help you to think about the right kinds of things when you do a have a tough choice to make.
Thanks again all. I’m off to the game. I’ll let you know how quick I went out 
It’s private, so unless you are on the list you probably won’t even see it. Follow Asterion’s link and ask for the details.
First off, I had a great time! I would like to thank all who contributed to the thread. I learned a lot about poker in the span of 48 hours.
Secondly, I finished fourth out of 17 and got my money back (well half of it but more on that later).
So the tourney ended up with a $20 buy in for 10000 in chips. We started at 1900 hrs. There was an option to re-buy in by 2000 hrs for another $20/10000 chips. Also at 2000 hrs, everyone could buy an additional 7000 chips for $10.
So I’m playing at a table of eight players. Things are going just fine. I’m in the top three in chips at the table and I pull pocket ladies (hot dang! I love the lingo…even if I am butchering it). One site I read suggested to play hard because each card turned over could turn the odds against me (I’m paraphrasing and probably understood it wrong). The point is that he should have folded with his 10-4 offsuit but the guy looks at the clock, realizes that it is 1958 hrs and if he is going to lose all his chips, he has two minutes until the re-buy in before things get locked down, so he calls. He hits 10 and 4 on the flop and I’m out of chips.
So I get to buy in again but my budget was $40 so I don’t take the extra 7000 chips for $10. I am the short stack and am looking to play aggressive, even though the blinds are still pretty small. I am dealt some good hands and go all in four time in a row, winning all four and taking two really sweet pots. I’m now back to the top three in chipsI fold the next hand.
Then I take pocket deuces and get trips on the flop (I’m not even sure if I said that right). I raise up and two guys come with me. I can cover them both so when they go all in, I go too. I forget the details but essentially they both end up with mid straights but I end up with a full house…but I didn’t see it. I had walked away from the table as the river came, thinking I had lost. The short stack at the table pointed out my full house so I became the chip leader in a big way. I tipped the short stack 2000 in chips. It was a great string of hands. I went all in 5 of 7 hands with no bluffs and went from short stack to top in chips. Remembering John F’s post, I play tight and figure I’ll coast to the final table.
I’m at the final table, and as one of the chip leaders (yay!) but I get burned not paying attention and the straight that I hold to the queen also allows for one to the ace and I get soaked for 2/3 of my chips.
My final hand was an A-7 suited. I’m the short stack, but not by much. I am also on the button. Call, raise, fold now to me. I have been getting good reads on #2 all night (the short stack I tipped earlier) and he raised too quick, the same way he does when he’s semi-bluffing (?). I figure he’s got a mid pocket pair. Working through some payouts and odds, I go all in. He calls. Sure enough, pocket 8’s. The flop is 3-A-8. Turn and river are no help and I’m out. Did I play that right? It seems that the cards I had were right but I lost so I’m looking for some positives.
I also learned to lean on the short stacks when you can or they can come back and knock you out of the tournament
Do you remember how much you had and what the blinds were at the time?
The gap concept says that you need a stronger hand to call a raise with than to raise yourself. In this case you put him on a mid pair but called anyway with your weak kicker. How weak that 7 look when he flipped over 88?
You got lucky to catch an A but so did he to catch an 8. :smack:
I like the push with 88 in that spot but think your call was incorrect. You had a limper, a raise, and two to act with A7s. Had they all folded around to you (depending on your stack/blinds) I’d much rather push all in from there than call where you did.
Pretty much right, but what you had is usually referred to as a “set” of deuces, as you had a pair in your hand and the third deuce on the board. “Trips” usually refers to the situation wherein there are two cards of a certain rank on the board, and you hold the third in your hand. The two terms are somewhat interchangeable, of course, but you’d rather have a “set” than “trips” because a set is very well concealed, and thus is likely to be paid off.
A “semi-bluff” is a bet with a hand that doesn’t figure to be the best now, but has a good chance to become the best – it’s betting with a draw, basically, giving yourself two ways to win (everyone folds or you make your flush/straight/whatever).
Hard to say without knowing your stack size and the blinds, but you probably wanted to fold. Given his actual holding, which you predicted pretty well, you were a 2-1 underdog, and he was almost certain to call. As the short stack you’ve got to make a move and double up, but you should wait for a better spot than this.
Depending on the sizes of your stack and the raise, a call with A7s might have been ok. If it had gone call-call in front of you instead of call-raise, then raising all-in could have been best (depending on your stack size and size of the blinds).
Congrats on your strong finish.
Congratulations on your strong finish. I don’t play re-buy or add-on tournaments so I’m wondering of those who do how the advice you gave would have changed had we known up-front there was a re-buy and an add-on.
No, you understood right. Pocket queens is an excellent starting hand but it’s vulnerable, because people (especially inexperienced people who over-value them) tend to play any Ace regardless of how bad the kicker is. Depending on the table, hands like KJ or any suited King might decide to play too (because people way over-value suited cards too). If an A or a K comes on the board, you could be in trouble, so you want to raise pre-flop to drive out those marginal hands or at least make it expensive to try to hit their cards.
Ugh. What an idiot, to call off everything with those rags just so that if he lost he could re-buy? Moron.
Boy, I’ll bet you were regretting giving him that tip earlier. Actually I’m surprised no one objected to that at the time. I would have.
I agree with what everyone’s said already about the move with the A7. Your read on the other player was spot on and you called with at best one overcard and no straight possibilities. Maybe you were putting too much value on the suitedness? Being on the button you had a couple of hands before you had to pay the blinds again and you should have waited for a better spot.
I’m confused about the final hand as you describe it though. Two players acted before you (the call and the raise) and you were on the button, meaning that there were two players left to act after you (the blinds) and you went out 4th on that hand when there were five people left?