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“Red wine with fish,” said Bond. “Well that should have told me something.”
*Pace *jsgoddes, there’s a point, I think, where the goal of etiquette is *precisely *to make people feel out of place. This is as distinct from manners (or what Chronos calls “real etiquette” below), which is more about maintaining civility and helping everyone get along.
Using the correct fork, passing the port the correct way, saying “best wishes”, breaking bread with your hands, not the butter knife… these have nothing whatsoever to do with making people feel at ease. They’re shibboleths. The right kind of people know them, the wrong kind of people don’t.
It’s no surprise that ZPG Zealot considers “best wishes” so obvious that people not using it must be rude, nor that practically everyone else here has never heard of it. Shibboleths have to be restricted to the in-group, or what’s the point? This is why etiquette books are for social climbers - you don’t learn it from a book, you learn it by living it.
It was always amusing, in a sad way, working in a bridal shop and seeing people engaging in culture wars with soon-to-be in-laws or even within the same family.
In a lot of cases, people who had very little real power liked to wield what power they could get their hands on by making other people unhappy.
It wasn’t all families, or most, but it was common enough to make me sad for a whole lot of angry, resentful folks who made big deals out of small matters to make big deals out of small lives.
I’m an immigrant from the Western states to the East Coast and, even after 10 years here, remain very uncomfortable with the “cheek kiss” greeting. My anxiety actually rises when I know someone is coming in for the hello smooch, cuz I’m not good at being the kisser nor kissee and there have been many embarrassing accidents involving lip-to-lip contact, snout smooches, and so on.
If there were a polite, non-asshat way to prevent this exchange I would seize upon it. But when in Rome . . .
My first experience with the French version was hilarious. A French woman we know initiated it with me and I planted a big-old wet smooch on each of her cheeks. My gf started laughing and the French woman looked embarrassed. Apparently it’s not done that way, but how was I to know?:smack:
Eating on the street in Singapore, 1983, with a couple of Chinese friends. We’re having clay pot, got rice and fish and other yummy goodness inside, mmmm! Other diners appear to be spitting the bones out onto the plastic draped tables, as they eat, I notice.
Just to be sure I wait till my companions do the same before indulging myself. So I spit out some bones and look up to see both my friends, first aghast, then, laughing loudly and uproariously.
I was all, “WHAT? Everybody else is doing it! You both did it!”
They were all, “You poor uncivilized white girl!”
Turns out you don’t so much spit out the bits, as just let them drop from your mouth. A distinction I had failed to notice, yet apparently of the utmost importance. Oopsy!
(I begged them all the way home, not to tell everyone when we got there. Her Mom, siblings, the Aunties, but they were having none of it. True to their word they told them all! To more uproarious laughter!)
LOL!
My worst cheek kiss thus far has been giving my BIL a big, wet ear smooch; not quite sure how this happened . . .
What’s really awkward is when you’re used to kissing people hello (and are super uncomfortable with that, yourself!), and you find yourself having just kissed someone who’s not used to it, either. I’m always mortified, but I can’t really say, “I didn’t want to do that, either! I just thought I had to!” because that’s super weird.
You’re supposed to check an etiquette book before any possible situation. Don’t you think just a few minutes of your time is worth showing respect for others and not coming across like a doofus? 
I wonder if there has ever been a kisses gone wrong thread?
I kissed a friend right on the lips – I zigged when I shoulda zagged! No biggie in that case, luckily!! I was used to the shake hands/pull in for a cheek kiss when meeting folks for the first time when I was in NYC and hung out with Spanish folks. Moved up here and went back to visit, and had been away long enough to forget and had to relearn. :smack:
Right! I want to stay on that wishing the bride “Congratulations” thing. 
My informal survey found two who were aware of the rule (but didn’t consider a violation to be a passive aggressive insultof the bride) and four who were completely confused by my even asking the question.
I congratulate the bravery of people who actually ask the question of those around them. It’s nice to see that most folks aren’t afraid of figuring out whether their beliefs have a rational basis.
I’m a Brit living and working in France for 10 years. I still don’t have a clue.
I guess I’m ‘‘used’’ to it by now, as much as I hate it, but honestly, it’s very uncomfortable to kiss someone you hate who you know also hates you. Some of the people I have to kiss think I’m beneath them because of my social status/class/religion whatever, and I think they’re beneath me because they’re abusive, narcissistic, entitled assholes.
I have to admit though, for the ones I’m genuinely happy to see, it is kind of nice.
Check this out.
Last year I saw someone wearing white after Labor Day. Like three weeks after. I was so freaked out, I just wanted to scream at them. I mean, what possesses some trashy assholes to provoke honorable folk like that? I could see people around me were also angry, but i figured if they could swallow back the bile, well, so could I. I was trembling, but I walked away.
Thanks for letting me vent. I’m actually trembling all this time later.
My gf made me practice with her so I don’t [del]fuck up[/del] embarrass her next time.
You kind of bring your cheek (face) next to hers and kiss her aura (if auras were real). You keep it subtle; you don’t go MWAH. No tongue. You do one side then the other, then back to the first side to show how much you care.
As you might guess, I run in terror if I see a French babe.
“Where is that accent from?” - had that asked of me a couple of times in rural Appalachia, with exactly 0 prelude. Might be considered “polite interest” by some people, but is actually rude as fluff.
Taking offense to things not meant to be rude is, itself, rude, if you understand rudeness to mean throwing sand into the gears of our society’s social interaction.
Now, don’t get me wrong. Rudeness can be necessary. Some social mechanisms deserve to rust solid and get put in a museum so they can’t hurt people anymore. However, that doesn’t really seem to be one of them.
And . . . DONE!